Tablets and Smartphones vs point and shoots

2

Comments

  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    edited July 2013
    I love this esoteric threads. It has been my experience that different cameras are for different purposes. And, if my end goal is to produce a very sharp image which looks great up on a 6' x 9' screen or print, I find it highly unlikely I can do this with a smartphone. Videos are much easier because our eye will make up a lot for poor resolution.

    My P & S, an Olympus E PL-2 does images no smart phone can hope for.

    If I could afford it, and the equipment was made, i would shoot a 60MP sensor on medium format and make 30" x 40" prints. And I know someone who does this with stunning results. No way a smartphone competes...with anything but a smartphone.
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    I think they were showing some huge prints at the Nokia Lumia 1020 launch... maybe 40"x50" in size, and according to a few pro photographers in attendance the results were quite impressive -- Jeremy Cowart tweeted that the Nokia prints he'd seen were better vs. some "real" cameras.

    So for everyday situations I think one can make quality 8"x10"s or 11"x14"s prints from these new Nokia phones (at least when conditions are good), which is better than what most people want or need. These phones aren't competing against DSLRs but they are approaching P&S quality.

    The sensors on these new phones are very impressive (maybe better than DSLR sensors if we take size & scale into account). The lenses however aren't great.

    Canon, Nikon, etc., must be very worried.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    I did not buy my smart phone because of its camera but finding my self out with a D800 with No battery I gave it go. No, the results were not as good as the D800 but they quality was much better than was expecting
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited July 2013
    Two fun photos one with smart phone



    one with DSLR



    ye,s as one might expect the DSLR is better but in this instance, the smart phone does the job
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    Good point JJ.

    I have a Samsung Galaxy 3 Mini and find the 5mP camera to be c-rap. OK for shooting emergencies like an RTA for insurance purposes or summat, but every time I use it I hate it more.

    Funny how it is the same people on this thread that praise the difference of FX over DX, yet are happy to tolerate a truly tiny sensor in a phone! I just don't get it.
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited July 2013

    Funny how it is the same people on this thread that praise the difference of FX over DX, yet are happy to tolerate a truly tiny sensor in a phone! I just don't get it.
    If I am doing "real photography" then I want the best I can get, with out compromise, for me that means FX

    but if I want simply want a record of a pleasant evening out, and I just need something that is "good enough" for posting on FB The Samsung Galaxy 4s -13 Mega pixel Auto Focus camera with Flash & Zero Shutter Lag, BIS does the job


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • mikepmikep Posts: 280Member
    i think camera phones are amazing these days, in daylight at least, i require no p&s

    they are comming closer together, and this is interesting, but too big for me http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/mobile-devices/galaxy-camera/galaxy-camera/EK-GC100ZWABTU
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,090Member
    The impact of the smartphone versus Point and Shoot camera though will have a great impact on many of us even if we are not using either. As the Nikon reps have stated very clearly the impact on the major camera companies is harsh. I do think that the comment about a D3100 and a single prime lens summed up my outlook here although I would add a D3100 and a 18-55 kit lens would be an acceptable alternative. Despite owning a couple of expensive point and shoots I still usually don't own one and try to follow what is considered the best out there.....I still have yet to even accept them for any of my own work. Point here is the reduced revenues from P&S is hurting Nikon. It to me is the single biggest current threat we face. I also doubt that ANY P&S Nikon offered would sell well enough to justify much in the way of new product development that fails to incorporate a smartphone..

    I expect that msmoto's thought that Nikon will produce a P&S with a phone in it is remarkably accurate as a prediction. I do think that will be one of Nikon's next big launches. Frankly I hope it is wonderfully successful. If so it might be the first Nikon compact P&S I have ever bought and give me a cell phone which I currently do not even use as where I live (surrounded by mountains) there is NO cell phone signal. But when it comes out and if I buy one then I'd get both and it would be a Nikon.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    I don't think a P&S with added phone capabilities will be very successful. Rather, it will be a phone with P&S capabilities that will be successful (the other way around).

    That's why Nikon / Canon should be worried, because camera functions (while important) is a marginal differentiation, not the core product.

    Grafting a phone into a modified Coolpix just wont cut it. Nikon would have to introduce a phone (or tablet) that's competitive in form factor and features with offerings from Apple, Samsung, Nokia, etc. -- with the addition of a superb camera. Frankly, I don't see that happening.

    I see three choices for Nikon:

    1. Per above, compete head on with Apple, Samsung, Nokia, etc. Not likely.
    2. Or, enter a marketing agreement with one of the above -- the "Nikon Inside" branding concept some have talked about. Possible, but I don't think it will be a very lucrative business vs. the current P&S market size.
    3. Or, come up with a revolutionary, disruptive magical device to convince buyers that it's still worth buying/carrying a 2nd gadget in addition to a smartphone.

    Else, essentially give up the P&S segment, significantly downsize, and focus on the enthusiast and professional segments.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,090Member
    Olympus did drop the point and shoots but if Nikon did considering their current income from this division Nikon would be in for a real downsizing. The impact on Nikon stocks would be the first wave of difficulty.
  • brownie314brownie314 Posts: 72Member
    I use my J1 as a "point and shoot". I have 2 primes and I think it pretty much outdoes any camera phone. But if you are talking about the 1/1.7" sensor little plastic cameras, yeah I see no use for them as most camera phones are probably about equal in ability.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    Well it looks like the phone companies sure are keep their foot to the floor in making the phones the new P&S cameras.

    Meet the Nokia Lumia 1020 /w 41 megapixel camera.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    That's the phone we've been talking about since last page :)
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    @Ade...oops my bad. Better late than never. LoL :p
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited September 2013
    Bring this topic back after seeing what Apple is offering with their new iPhone 5s camera. Very impressive.

    Samples of iPhone 5s images.

    The P/S market is sure going to feel the hit here. In fact, the D-SLR might as well, but to a smaller extent.

    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    edited September 2013
    As someone who is always chasing bokeh, cell phones and point & shoots always fall way short. Cell phone's now have a large place in photography in general and is gaining popularity due to the quick editing and sharing capabilities they provide. No one questions that cell phone pictures fall short in technical quality in difficult, normal situations (low light, indoor, etc.) but just as Polaroid showed 50 years ago, instant access wins many over even if the quality isn't there. Even being the case, there are just times I do not want to carry a bulging camera and I see a shot and the cellphone is there.
    image
    iPhone 4 - edit: Snapseed

    The consumer market for cheap P&S is basically gone and cell phones have taken that over but there are still market segments that still exist. Camera companies continue to make grave miscalculations on the market (aside from Samsung The Galaxy Camera) by not realizing that instant editing & sharing is the key to what many consumers want and are willing to pay for better image quality, but the convenience factor has not been met. I think Sony has a great idea with their new Smartphone controlled cameras and caught my eye in a big way. High quality images that I can edit and share instantly. All in the size of about a 18-55mm lens which is small enough to keep in a coat pocket or a small belt lens case. The specs are a bit limited, but it is a good direction even if it is not the perfect product.

    The crux has been transferring photos to smartphones, which can edit well if you learn the programs. I have used Eye-fi which is painfully slow and eats batteries for lunch, a total pain to set up, and "breaks" more than it works, but is still my go to for my X100 which I carry most everywhere. I recently got an iPad Mini and the camera kit to transfer photos and I prefer that even if it is a bit unwieldy.
    image
    X100 - Camera kit (SD card reader) iPad Mini - edit: Snapseed

    I think there is room for both if companies build in wifi in P&Ss that works all the time, or provide an attachment
    to the phone that provides very fast wireless communication. I think if they go this right, they may be able to find good profitable, large, niche markets.
    image
    iPhone 4 - edit: Big Lens & Snapseed

    Still, sometimes quality really doesn't matter if that is not the focus.
    image
    iPhone 4 - edit: Snapseed

    Really interesting show on recently.
    The Twitter Revolution
    Watched this the other night - really worth the time to catch the full program on TV. It really shows how much news is actually taken with cell phones.

    My photo stream with a few photos with the combos listed above.
    Post edited by TaoTeJared on
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    If you read carefully the new iPhone 5S announcement, you find its camera in many ways is more cutting edge than anything Nikon, Canon, Sony, or anyone in the CAMERA business (that I'm familiar with) makes.

    Two examples stand out:

    The first is flash: The iPhone 5S will apparently have two different color temperature flashes. It appears that the camera will measure the color temperature of the ambient light and adjust the color temperature of the flash to match. Why hasn't Nikon (or anyone else) done this a decade ago?

    The next is image stabilization. The iPhone 5S camera will apparently not only capture multiple images for a given shot, but rather than simply select the best image, it will use all the images to create a composite image that removes as much motion blurriness as can be detected and corrected. Again, why hasn't Nikon (or anyone else) done this before Apple?

    It is a rather sad commentary on the DSLR industry that they are upstaged by a "computer" maker. Once again, the big DSLR camera makers seem to be WAY behind the technology curve. If they would attempt to truly innovate, maybe we would have some ground-breaking next-gen DSLR cameras.

    So, why don't they? I've had friends suggest that it is simply not in the Japanese business culture to push such innovation.

    I'm interested in hearing other opinions as to why Apple has so seriously one-upped the big DSLR makers, and when you think they may make a serious attempt to catch up -- if ever.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2013
    If you read carefully the new iPhone 5S announcement, you find its camera in many ways is more cutting edge than anything Nikon, Canon, Sony, or
    I suppose it depend on what is meant by "cutting edge"

    when it comes to shutter delay, most phones and compacts are as blunt as a hammer
    e.g. it is impossible to capture the decisive moment
    when the iPhone is using its color balanced flash, my DSLR will still be shooting with available light



    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    So lost my wonderful post on this topic.. :-( .. oh well too lazy to type it all again..
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    So lost my wonderful post on this topic.. ..
    it seems a bit harsh you post was deleted, rather than moved, because you went in the wrong direction

    e
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,286Member
    I think I've taken my fair share of shots I was happy with on my dumb smart phone. It runs Android Gingerbread, which is positively ancient compared to phones available now, but when it's the only camera you have, what choice do you have?

    Also, it was my primary camera after my D40 died in Hong Kong. And for those keeping count, it's still dead. Either WD40 is not a good lubricant, or I didn't put enough in on it.

    2013-07-26 20.04.05

    Dome.

    I'm kind of curious on the Sony camera phone/RX100 hybrid module. Too bad there doesn't seem to be as much manual control as the RX100 though.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • SquamishPhotoSquamishPhoto Posts: 608Member
    If you read carefully the new iPhone 5S announcement, you find its camera in many ways is more cutting edge than anything Nikon, Canon, Sony, or anyone in the CAMERA business (that I'm familiar with) makes.

    Two examples stand out:

    The first is flash: The iPhone 5S will apparently have two different color temperature flashes. It appears that the camera will measure the color temperature of the ambient light and adjust the color temperature of the flash to match. Why hasn't Nikon (or anyone else) done this a decade ago?

    The next is image stabilization. The iPhone 5S camera will apparently not only capture multiple images for a given shot, but rather than simply select the best image, it will use all the images to create a composite image that removes as much motion blurriness as can be detected and corrected. Again, why hasn't Nikon (or anyone else) done this before Apple?

    It is a rather sad commentary on the DSLR industry that they are upstaged by a "computer" maker. Once again, the big DSLR camera makers seem to be WAY behind the technology curve. If they would attempt to truly innovate, maybe we would have some ground-breaking next-gen DSLR cameras.

    So, why don't they? I've had friends suggest that it is simply not in the Japanese business culture to push such innovation.

    I'm interested in hearing other opinions as to why Apple has so seriously one-upped the big DSLR makers, and when you think they may make a serious attempt to catch up -- if ever.
    Wow. I guess Ill go sell my gear right quick! Such a convincing scientific argument! :p
    Mike
    D3 • D750 • 14-24mm f2.8 • 35mm f1.4A • PC-E 45mm f2.8 • 50mm f1.8G • AF-D 85mm f1.4 • ZF.2 100mm f2 • 200mm f2 VR2
  • kyoshinikonkyoshinikon Posts: 411Member
    So lost my wonderful post on this topic.. :-( .. oh well too lazy to type it all again..

    Im in the same boat...


    "smart phone vs point and shoots" Hasn't this forum discussed this many times in the past? Unless you are using a p7100 most P&Ses are simply on their way out. Smartphone cameras while not as good are simply "good enough" for most people and most phone manufactures spend more time selling the camera in the phone than the sound quality or or signal reception the phone has to offer. This doesn't affect me at all as I seldom use my phone and don't even own a working P&S...
    “To photograph is to hold one’s breath, when all faculties converge to capture fleeting reality. It’s at that precise moment that mastering an image becomes a great physical and intellectual joy.” - Bresson
  • AndrewzAndrewz Posts: 122Member
    TIme to revive this thread....

    So evidently Kodak is getting into the smartphone business.

    http://petapixel.com/2014/12/26/kodak-jumping-smartphones-photo-centric-devices-2015/#more-154361

    If Nikon made a phone I'd buy it! Would you?
    D750, P7000, F100 80-200 f2.8 AF-S, 24-120 f4, 50 f1.8D, 85 f1.8G, 14-24 f2.8

    Old friends now gone -D200, D300, 80-200 f2.3/D, 18-200, 35 f1.8G, 180 f2.8D, F, FM2, MD-12, 50 f1.4 Ais, 50 f1.8 Ais, 105 f2.5 Ais, 24 f2.8 Ais, 180 f2.8 ED Ais
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,742Member
    No. I only use my camera phone to document things. The crappy IQ is good enough for that.
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