Photography innovations, Nikon and generally

heartyfisher

So there was talk about the latest innovations by sigma in the Sigma 35mm thread .. but I thought it would be interesting to list what people consider to be some of the latest innovations and maybe do some crystal ball gazing to list what they would like.. please limit to realistic stuff ( Like a 8-800mm F1.2 ;-) NOT ! )

heartyfisher

Ok for me some nice, kind of recent, innovations are
1) the vibrating sensor to remove dust.
2) Sensor movement anti shake.
3) Touch screen
4) Fujifilms non bayer sensor pattern
5) BSI sensors
6) Sigma's lens tweeking Dock.
7) Including Fresnel lenses in the lens design.

PB_PM

Just a few thoughts:

1 # Not really a recent addition, unless 8 years ago is recent.
2 # Again, not really new
3 # Touch screens have been around for how long? 20 years?
4 # I'll agree with that
5 # A good step forward, but innovative?
#6 Not really innovative, just the first time customers have had that kind of access to a lenses firmware. Sigma is just trying to save money on warranty clams, while selling the dock. From a financial stand point it's a no brainer to dump poor quality assurance problems onto the customer.
7# Canon has used similar technology for how long now? 10-15 years? Is that recent?

As for real innovation in the photography industry, I haven't seen any in a long time. The tech inside the cameras is improving, incrementally as it should be, but nobody is trying to innovate in terms of the camera itself. Okay, I can think of one, Lytro, but they tried and failed.

JJ_SO

I would not judge others opinions about recent innovation, since it was not specified by the OP how long ago the invention did happen.

What goes pretty well for #3: touchscreens on camera are an Apple innovation on the iPhone, as I see it, before was not much of touchscreens in photography except you count the minilab interfaces.

I don't share your opinion of #6 in general but I do see the point Sigma can save some money because some pixelpeepers now can have a good time by climbing their own maximum sharpness hills instead of keeping Sigma's service busy with adjustments. And you would be much more correct in your suspicions, if Sigma would sell poor quality, but as long as they show Nikon how excellent lenses can be manufactured at outstanding prices, I'd kept my mouth shut about "poor quality". Sorry, but if it comes to lens quality... I had an expensive 85/1.4 G Nikkor HSM exchange after less than 3000 shots with it. Is that what you call high(price) quality?

Now, would Ricoh an their lens+sensor modules what nobody wants would make it to the innovation stage? Or Pentax multicolor world? Some of the highspeed cams like Casio, Nikon1, Panasonic? Or Sigma's sensor type although the development happened long ago and didn't lead to a breakthrough?

JJ_SO

The development of those optocopters was also an innovation with a benefit for photographers (being my own chopper pilot...) and a greater benefit for videographers.

Now the OP asked for crystal ball gazing?

I would like to see a squarish sensor, Sigma type, with high ISO improvements in a mirrorless body.

Ages ago, zoom lenses were called "rubber lens" because of their flexible focal lengths and I think, also to make them look a bit less valuable than primes. How about somebody could create lenses like our own eyes with flexible lens out of a glass type jelly and make that work in hard real life instead of always using mechanics?

And on the other side - who needs all that stuff? We have enough gear not to be limited if we want to express ourselves.

sevencrossing

. How about somebody could create lenses like our own eyes with flexible lens .....

I think the future may lie not only in the lens but in the way the image is processed
the eye has very poor edge definition but the brain builds up the image, as the eye scans the subject
So may be a scanning lens, building up an image over time
The image may not be "looked at " but our eyes but fed directly into the brain

Scary stuff? Yes and no, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime

heartyfisher

How about somebody could create lenses like our own eyes with flexible lens out of a glass type jelly and make that work in hard real life instead of always using mechanics?

This is already being developed using several different methods
http://www.parylens.eu/project/tuneable/tuneable.php
http://www.vision-systems.com/articles/print/volume-12/issue-11/worldwide-industrial-camera-directory/adaptive-lenses-mimic-the-human-eye.html
There are a few others but too lazy to look for them :-)

@sevencrossing "The image may not be "looked at " but our eyes but fed directly into the brain. Scary stuff? Yes and no, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime."

I think it will. I know many of you guys don't belief in "weird stuff" but I have had several "dreams" come true. one that has not is with a gadget that you describe though I could not see how it could possibly be done when I first "dreamed" it. Sorry, I did say no "Way out" stuff .. I will stop now ;-) :-)

heartyfisher

Another innovation I wish would be implemented is the Panchromatic pixel sensor (Originally By Kodak but I think it can be tweeked and improved!) .. which should improve High ISO performance by about 1.5 stops. Oh well..

heartyfisher

Oh another one ! .. The removal of the AA filter !

dissent

The new Windows phone has a 41 MP sensor?

PB_PM

I don't share your opinion of #6 in general but I do see the point Sigma can save some money because some pixelpeepers now can have a good time by climbing their own maximum sharpness hills instead of keeping Sigma's service busy with adjustments. And you would be much more correct in your suspicions, if Sigma would sell poor quality, but as long as they show Nikon how excellent lenses can be manufactured at outstanding prices, I'd kept my mouth shut about "poor quality". Sorry, but if it comes to lens quality... I had an expensive 85/1.4 G Nikkor HSM exchange after less than 3000 shots with it. Is that what you call high(price) quality?

You seem to not under stand the difference between quality control and optical design. Even a lenses with the greatest optical design ever could still have poor performance if it is not assembled and tested properly.

JJ_SO

Just don't tell me what I "seem to understand" or not. Especially, when you equalize the offering of a dock with "From a financial stand point it's a no brainer to dump poor quality assurance problems onto the customer." That says something about your understanding

PB_PM

Oh no I hit the space bar when I shouldn't have (heaven forbid!!!). :P

What I said is true. Nikon and Canon could do the same thing, if they didn't want to stand behind their products. It should not be the customers job to fix the manufactures screw ups, and lack of quality control. If Sigma's focus tolerances in the factory are so poor that they need to ship a dock, which customers pay extra for, to fix the problem how is that good quality control? I don't care how good Sigma optics are if they cannot get that right. From what I can see the dock was added purely for finical gain. What other reason could it be? Explain, logically why you feel it is not simply a cash grab?

heartyfisher

@PB_PM - I dont think its an issue of quality control. i think you have fallen for one of the internet "Myths" that every lens and camera combination should be perfect if they are both within manufacturers tolerances. Furthermore the improved sharpness of the lenses and higher resolution sensors nowadays actually requires more accuracy than ever before as a slight mis-focus is much more easily seen at 100% magnification.

What sigma's innovation provides that has never before been available is the ability to make adjustments without the need or the involvement large corporations who are slow and not agile.

PB_PM

This no internet myth, and I don't think all lenses are perfect from the factory. I just don't see what Sigma is doing as innovative. They are downloading problems to the customer, while reaping the benefit of selling the USB dock. It's win win for them. They make money selling the dock, and do less warranty serivce. Net gain? Pure profit. How? A part of the cost of each lens is to cover warranty repairs. Now less of that goes to serivice for lenses that were not aligned within factory tollerances. That is no myth, it's a logical conclusion based analyzing the situation.

NSXTypeR

I think the Nikon 1 AF system is an innovation, but overall the product is poorly thought out. The AF system is great, but I just wish they had better lenses.

So yes, it is an innovation, just a poorly designed, marketed and sold system. The price point is also terrible.

Imagine if the D5 had the Nikon 1 AF system integrated into a mirror lock up setting?

PB_PM

That would be a good step, bring it in line with what Canon has done with the 70D...

Ade

@PB_PM

Re: the Sigma dock, you'd be right if the primary purpose of the USB dock is only to fix "problems". But it's not. Things like fine focus adjustment is only one aspect of the USB dock -- plus most cameras today already have AF Fine Tune.

What the USB dock allows is customization of the lens behavior to suit your needs. For example, for the Sigma "Sports" line of lenses you can customize the lens motor drive to favor speed, or accuracy, or a balance of both. You can also customize the aggressiveness of the image stabilization (OS), and even change the lens focus distance limits. None of these customizations are available on Nikkor lenses.

PB_PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but high end Nikon super telephoto lenses have programmable settings, like locking focus at set distances. Not as advanced perhaps, but then you don't need to buy an extra $60 dock to do it. The Sigma dock is a nice toy, but innovative, we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Ade

You're referring to the "Memory Recall" button -- a quaint leftover from the early days of autofocus, when AF performance was so bad, one had to "pre-focus" at a certain distance because trying to quickly re-acquire focus at that distance again was never guaranteed. Thankfully, today the AF performance of new Nikons are much improved, there is little need for such a function.

TaoTeJared

I liked the memory recall button - great for when you are bouncing from cheerleaders to the quarterback lol

The iPhone is the most revolutionary device for photography in the last 10 years. It started a whole sub industry for phone programs with photos and video and finely pushed other manufactures to push the limits on camera phone capabilities. You can't leave that one off the list since it still tops the most used by % of flickr members. Say what you will about quality, not being the first, etc., but without that packaged system with a camera, we wouldn't have Instagram, Twitter wouldn't have photos, Facebook, and wonderful jokes (in the US) about some guy with the synonym name of a hotdog. Hell my next camera purchase I want wifi so I can transfer the photo to my iPhone so I can edit and upload it.

Samsung has released camera's with Android OS (but the camera's aren't that great) but I do think whoever can (truly) merge a DSLR to wifi/cellular and enable some "real" editing (noise, basic lightroom edits, etc.) of photos will be coup de grace to other companies, at least for a while. I could see that happening and most all of them are trying but with as much grace as a horse trying to figure skate. At a minimum, I would like to see a really fast wireless connection. Existing stuff is just too slow with increasing file sizes.

Personally I don't think Nikon or any big name camera company has done real "innovation" in the last 6 years. Maybe the AF system of the D4/D800 and the 1 series but really there is nothing new about them, just evolutionary advancement. Nikon really sc*#%$& the pooch with the 1 series - very badly marketed and way overpriced. If they cut that by 50-60% for bodies and 25% on the higher lenses to bring it more in line with reality, that really could take off.

The only real thing I see for Nikon is a radio wireless flash and maybe a 1 Series reboot with a DX sensor. We may actually see a 50 f1.2 and a couple more lenses but that is it. I would like to see VR versions of 2.8s like the Canon 35mm f/2 IS, but I have not seen any patents on anything close.

In general
Lytro is certainly an interesting technology that is just too new to know what it will become. The GoPro & Flip video cameras really have changed the landscape in news/tv/amateur video. I still think Foveon has a future if someone who has money develops it more than Sigma. Heartyfisher brought up Panchromatic pixel sensor, but that is 5-6 years old and never went anywhere. The BSI (Back Side Illuminated) sensor is a great advancement and is part of why compacts are producing so much better photos. Companies are playing with Organic based sensors as well, but we are still way off from that.

Really with the economy, Canon and Nikon have dug their heels in and stayed the course. Olympus and Panasonic with introducing the m4/3rds format and succeeding, Fuji and their sensors (and designs), Sony's Nex-7 and RX1 I think are more innovative than what Nikon and Canon has pumped out but really even those are just building on what has existed. It really seems most are just repackaging existing tech with a few updates at the moment.

Gareth

1/16000 focal plane or 1/8000 leaf shutter

NSXTypeR

Samsung has released camera's with Android OS (but the camera's aren't that great) but I do think whoever can (truly) merge a DSLR to wifi/cellular and enable some "real" editing (noise, basic lightroom edits, etc.) of photos will be coup de grace to other companies, at least for a while. I could see that happening and most all of them are trying but with as much grace as a horse trying to figure skate. At a minimum, I would like to see a really fast wireless connection. Existing stuff is just too slow with increasing file sizes.

Personally I don't think Nikon or any big name camera company has done real "innovation" in the last 6 years. Maybe the AF system of the D4/D800 and the 1 series but really there is nothing new about them, just evolutionary advancement. Nikon really sc*#%$& the pooch with the 1 series - very badly marketed and way overpriced. If they cut that by 50-60% for bodies and 25% on the higher lenses to bring it more in line with reality, that really could take off.

The only real thing I see for Nikon is a radio wireless flash and maybe a 1 Series reboot with a DX sensor. We may actually see a 50 f1.2 and a couple more lenses but that is it. I would like to see VR versions of 2.8s like the Canon 35mm f/2 IS, but I have not seen any patents on anything close.

In general
Lytro is certainly an interesting technology that is just too new to know what it will become. The GoPro & Flip video cameras really have changed the landscape in news/tv/amateur video. I still think Foveon has a future if someone who has money develops it more than Sigma. Heartyfisher brought up Panchromatic pixel sensor, but that is 5-6 years old and never went anywhere. The BSI (Back Side Illuminated) sensor is a great advancement and is part of why compacts are producing so much better photos. Companies are playing with Organic based sensors as well, but we are still way off from that.

Really with the economy, Canon and Nikon have dug their heels in and stayed the course. Olympus and Panasonic with introducing the m4/3rds format and succeeding, Fuji and their sensors (and designs), Sony's Nex-7 and RX1 I think are more innovative than what Nikon and Canon has pumped out but really even those are just building on what has existed. It really seems most are just repackaging existing tech with a few updates at the moment.

I would say the Sony RX100 is more of an innovation than the RX1. There has never before been a fastish lens with such a large sensor in such a small body.

Sony also announced a lens and sensor combination that hangs off the edge of your phone. Not sure how that'll work, but looks cool.

And Lytro, cool as it is, is actually laying off people.

Ironheart

The Phantom camera series from vision research has truly advanced scientific knowledge with its ability to shoot up to 1,000,000 fps.

spraynpray

One MILLION fps? :O

TaoTeJared

I would say the Sony RX100 is more of an innovation than the RX1. There has never before been a fastish lens with such a large sensor in such a small body.
Sony also announced a lens and sensor combination that hangs off the edge of your phone. Not sure how that'll work, but looks cool.

The RX100 has BSI as well. As compacts go, it is a good little camera for sure. The lens design (and how close it sits to the sensor) of the RX1 is really impressive for it being a FX - that is mainly why I added that.

The phantom cameras! Yes - resolution was still quite small at those speeds last I looked. Barely 1mp if that. Would be fun to play with one for a month though!

1/16000 focal plane or 1/8000 leaf shutter

Having a leaf shutter in my X100 is the main reason I keep that. I love that with a flash!