V1 vs D800

tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
edited October 2013 in Nikon 1
Another question on the V1. I am very happy with a D800 and D7100... Yes, the V1 would be lighter, but everyone goes on about the crop factor (I think my 36 MP D800 has about the same 'reach' as my 24MP D7100 with the 1.5x crop factor)

Seems to me the D800/7100's greater pixels counterbalance the V1's crop factor, so that in the end the the crop would be about the same and the IQ better with the DSLR. So the advantage comes down to the size advantage of the V1.

Is that right, or does the V1 have a greater 'reach?'

Thanks
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  • jonnyapplejonnyapple Posts: 130Moderator
    The pixel pitch (absolute resolution) of the D800 and D7100 are 4.7 and 3.9 microns, respectively, so the difference in absolute resolution between those is bigger than the difference between the D7100 and the V1 at 3.4 microns. With the D7100's lack of AA filter it's even possible that you would notice a decrease in resolution with the V1.
    CC is welcome. DC is also welcome when I deserve it.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited October 2013
    Hey jonnyapple, you are back ! :!! Nice to see you around again ! :-h

    Re pixel pitch..

    The V1 is not the latest in the Nikon 1 line. if you are comparing the latest FX vs DX vs CX then its the V2's 14 MP that should be used in comparison. ie 2.9 micron. I think the V3 is expected soon.. probably before the end of the year ! I am hoping for a BSI sensor with no AA filter. I am planing to get one ! I recently got a V1 to test and play with.. .. it is a good fun system.

    To the OP I am sure the Nikon1 CX line will have more reach !

    check out these photos from a guy in my photo group/club.. nikon V1 with 300mm V2.8 ..
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pw-pix/9993324895/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pw-pix/9784029512/in/photostream/
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
    Am quite aware the V1 is not the latest and is only 10MP, but it seems most people on this forum prefer it over the V2. Waiting for the V3 may be smart.

    Thanks for the thoughts.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited October 2013
    I got the V1 about 2 weeks ago.. its so cheap at the moment ! I got an "as new" condition second hand for less than $290 including the lovely 10-30 lens..
    image

    image
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    @tganiats - I'm lost in the goal of comparing "reach" and what is trying to be achieved. The crop factor is obvious and put each camera on the same FX lens it is obvious. Are you asking if cropping a D800 file to achieve the same "crop" with the exact same lens used on the V1?
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
    @TaoTeJared. Wow. You'd think I'm a complete novice, given how poorly I am communicating. I'm sorry. (and I'm not...I feel 99% certain of my answer, which means I won't get a V1 or V2...but I want to be sure)

    Yes, doesn't a cropped image from a D800 (cropped to 10MP) offer more apparent telephoto than the same lens on the 10MP V1. If so, then the reasons for the V1 are related to size. If not, then I might consider a V1.

    Thanks for your patience.

    Ted
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    Off the top of my head I'm not sure what the FOV (with what FX lens vs N1 lens for what purpose) the D800 would equal the resolution of a V1 or V2. I'm sure someone will add the math.

    As for IQ, from what I have seen the D800 is better, especially when you start having to raise the ISO. Shooting long distance you do want to keep the shutter above 1/500+ to eliminate shake. To my eye, I don't see any quality loss till iso 640 which gives 3 stops extra for shutter speed or for example, being able to shoot at 1/1000 instead of 1/125. At some point the ISO needs to rise and that is where the V1/2 will fall very quickly as I see artifacts even at the lowest ISOs. That doesn't mean that it isn't usable or not good though - just have to know the trade-offs and if it is acceptable to you. Depending on what you want to do with your photos that could make a huge difference, or very little difference at all.

    It's all about trade-offs and knowing where the tilt point is. That is what we all struggle with.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • CorrelliCorrelli Posts: 135Member
    Yes, doesn't a cropped image from a D800 (cropped to 10MP) offer more apparent telephoto than the same lens on the 10MP V1. If so, then the reasons for the V1 are related to size. If not, then I might consider a V1.
    The crop factor of the V1 is 2.7, so you need to divide the width of the D800 image by 2.7 to get to the size of the V1 image. The max. resolution of the D800 is 7360 x 4912 pixel on a 36 x 24 mm² sensor. If you divide this by 2.7 you end up at 7360/2.7 = 2726 and 4912/2.7 = 1820. So on the same area (13.2 x 8.8 mm²) as the V1 the D800 has got "only" 2726 x 1820 = 5 MP.

    So to get the same field of view on an D800 image you need to crop it to 5 MP.

    This means at 10 MP on both cameras the V1 does have the smaller angle of view (more telephoto) if you use the same focal length lens.

    Hope this helps.
  • tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
    @Correlli THANKS. This is the kind of math I was having trouble with. I could divide the AREA by 2.7 or each side by 2.7..... I realize the huge difference in IQ, but I was curious about the angle of view of the two options.

    Thanks for your help...

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    and ? so ? .... err sorry I don't get the issue/point please clarify.. thanks
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
    Hard to believe my little question generated so much confusion. I think I wrote it late at night to start...sorry I wasn't clear.

    More clearly stated: which gives you a smaller angle of view...the V1 or the D800 cropped to the V1's 10MP
    (Yes, the D800 has higher IQ, but that aside...)

    @Corelli suggests the V1 will have the smaller angle of view.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    Yes .. ( :-) that was simple .. LOL! )
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 983Member
    I've shot the V1 handheld at 300mm which would be 300*2.7=810 FX equiv.
    Its hard to hand hold that far out, and honestly the pics from a 500 Bigma on a DSLR turn out way better.
    That said, holding the Bigma up for a shot is like holding up a bazooka for a photo. A 300mm lens attached to the V1 is much more like "normal" picture taking. The V1 viewfinder at that magnification drives me crazy though. In the end I just tend to accept the limited reach of the bigger cameras because shooting is way easier and the pic quality is better IMHO. That said, the V1 is light, easy to add as a second body, and might be worth taking along for situations where the reach doesn't quite make it. Hope that helps!
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