Landscape Photography Gear ?

heartyfisher

dd

PB_PM

@heartyfisher You are correct, the best dynamic range on any digital camera is the native (not Hi or Lo) base ISO, in the case of current generation Nikon bodies that means ISO100.

TaoTeJared

I'm not following haroldp's comments either. The way he described it, isn't correct. I think he meant to say he lowered the iso - I think it was just a miss statement.

Paperman

We sure are hearing things we haven't heard before on ISO in this topic. 2 days ago, it was the noise advantage of the expanded Low ISO 50; now it is the highlight recovery advantage of higher ISOs. If there is any scientific backing, fine ...But it looks more like " I'm doing it and I see the difference " :-?

spraynpray

"I think the logic is flawed. in effect the process describes what we already do when we underexpose an image to ensure highlights are not lost."

In effect, yes, but I don't agree with the assertion that underexposing has exactly the same effect as shooting at a higher ISO. I read something on it recently, but my brain's hard drive has suffered a catastophic failure due to to much time on 'tinternet...

Msmoto

I think when we move the ISO up, what really begins to go is the shadow detail. Just look sometime at the shadows in an ISO 25,000 shot in your camera and it is full of noise, very poor contrast, et.c. The sensor at 100 ISO should have the largest dynamic range. If exposed properly, highlights are rendered at a specific level. If we underexpose the scene, we do graph more highlight detail, but this assumes some of it was outside the dynamic range of the sensor in the normal exposure.

In landscapes, this is often why an HDR image is required to bring it together. A total range of 6 f/stops in the HDR can increase the dynamic range by a factor of 64 times.

roombarobot

Paperman said:

That said, my having never heard about it does not rule out your opinion and I really would like to hear other voices on this.

I have to point this out, mainly because I have been spending a lot of time on the dpreview forums trying to decipher some wisdom and trends to help my D600 spots problem. Paperman's comment above is the most civil and respectful continuation of a discussion that I have seen on any forum in a long time. Thank you! Dpreview's forums have gotten downright disrespectful, this is a treat to see. Thanks to you and to a great community here!

tc88

Paperman said:

That said, my having never heard about it does not rule out your opinion and I really would like to hear other voices on this.

I have to point this out, mainly because I have been spending a lot of time on the dpreview forums trying to decipher some wisdom and trends to help my D600 spots problem. Paperman's comment above is the most civil and respectful continuation of a discussion that I have seen on any forum in a long time. Thank you! Dpreview's forums have gotten downright disrespectful, this is a treat to see. Thanks to you and to a great community here!

+1!

Yetibuddha

Roombarobot: That's why I don't read dpreview.

haroldp

The reason for raising ISO (slightly, 2/3 to 1 EV) is to reduce exposure to avoid saturating highlights.

This is accomplished in-camera by a combination of amplification at the photosite, which it was correctly stated does not accomplish my goal, and digitally after data extraction, which is recoverable in raw processing by several methods. The exact proportion varies by manufacturer and sensor. CMOS and CCD also are different in this regard.

This could also be accomplished by manual exposure or exposure compensation (or bracketing).

Shooting manual which is most of my landscapes, I control exposure manually and am usually at base ISO.

This method (ISO adjustment) ,works for me, and I personally prefer it to exposure compensation because I am concsious of ISO and will change it back when done, where I often forget and leave exposure comp. on long after the situation has changed.

It also leaves me the widest latitude for exposure compensation in raw processing.

With modern sensors (D3, D3x, D800), I have found that for me, shadow noise is simply not an issue until ISO 400 is exceeded, and protecting highlights is a more important IQ issue.

I am also am often doing multi-pane, hundreds of mp stiched images, where even on a large print, pixels are very small.

TaoTeJared

Haroldp - I think you have left out some detail in writing your thought process.

As is stands, You are saying you are shooting manual, keeping the settings and raising your ISO to reduce the exposure to retain highlights.

Example from what you have stated:
Settings Before - S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/8, ISO: 100 = blown highlights.
Settings After: S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/8, ISO: 200 = no blown highlights.

The only way I can think of that working is if you are shooting, and a black hole passes by you that sucks light into it when you changed your settings.

JJ_SO

And? You're not seriously doubting the existence of black holes? And, it really could happen that way ^:)^

Paperman

@haroldp

"The reason for raising ISO (slightly, 2/3 to 1 EV) is to reduce exposure to avoid saturating highlights"

All we want to know is if there is any scientific backing to this as it has never been mentioned anywhere in digital photography.

The rest of what you mentioned about not blowing highlights is something we all try to accomplish, though in not such a complicated way as you do. All we do is just keep the exposure below blowing highlights.

@ttj

"Settings Before - S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/8, ISO: 100 = blown highlights.
Settings After: S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/8, ISO: 200 = no blown highlights.

I think what Haroldp claims is ( at least in his first post ) :

Settings Before - S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/8, ISO: 100 = blown highlights.
Settings After: S: 1/60th shutter, A: f/11, ISO: 200 = no blown highlights.

He claims on sole benefit of increased ISO - not increased exposure ( which would only blow the highlights )

TaoTeJared

Either way I have never seen that to be true at all. Raising your ISO only reduces the amount of information it will record. There is not a trustworthy testing site that shows the opposite.

PB_PM

Every test I've ever seen shows that base ISO provides the most dynamic range, once you go beyond base ISO the dynamic range goes down. There is nothing to gain, if having the most dynamic range possible is your goal, by increasing the ISO.

Msmoto

The only way I know to keep more highlight detail is via HDR or to give a - ev of 0.3, 0.7, or even 1.0. And this does work. All other settings can be ignored when the exposure value is changed. But, changing ISO may not do this if the Auto ISO is on and S, A, is used without a minimum shutter speed set.

For landscapes, I like to use fully manual settings, look at the histogram, make image with the qualities I want. The struggle sometimes occurs in evening shots when I can hardly see the camera to focus, sun is setting, light is going. Then experience is what comes in.

Ironheart

If you think about it "changing the ev" has to be changing either speed, aperture, or ISO. What else is there?

TaoTeJared

If you think about it "changing the ev" has to be changing either speed, aperture, or ISO. What else is there?

It changes the shutter speed only. Nothing has changed from the old film days.

Ironheart

Even in S mode?

PB_PM

In S mode the camera would rise the F stop to make up for the additional light from raising the ISO.

TaoTeJared

I'm pretty sure it still only moves the shutter. From what I understand nothing has changed from the Film days. The camera's couldn't change the aperture or the film so Shutter what the only variable.

PB_PM

In shutter speed priority? Umm... no. In S mode the camera changes the aperture and ISO (if auto) in order to achieve the set shutter speed. If it is too dark, then you just get a low warning.

JJ_SO

EV means "exposure value" which I understood as the amount of light reaching the sensor. It doesn't matter, if you change the time or the gap (shutter and aperture) or both a bit - and for both can change a picture's meaning, it's the photog's decision which is more important. One could change the EV as well by using additional light or a ND filter.

Golf007sd

The only times I play with my EV is 1) to ensure my whites and black are as they should be...versus them being grayish; as well as, when I shot HDR. Now correct me if I'm wrong: Exposure compensation changes how your camera's default metering behaves. While, ND filters cuts down light before it reaches your sensor. Thus, they work totally different.

Msmoto

Very simply stated, a change in the exposure value using the +/- button changes the exposure from what the camera system suggests. The result is an image lighter or darker. On M mode none of the camera settings change. The electronics of the camera simply change the way the image is recorded. The process works best on single point or center weighted metering.