D800 successor - any info, tips, rumors?

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  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,352Member
    edited June 2014
    +1 @sevencrossing

    After seeing the early prediction on the D810 specs, I imagine that more pros and advanced amateurs will buy the D810 and not buy both. That will give them more $$$ for lens. :)) =D>

    One point I am confused about. If the D4 was replaced by the D4s, why is the D800/D800e NOT being replaced with the D800s? Does this imply that the D800/D800e upgrade is more than the D4s upgrade? IMHO it does. I am looking forward to the 26th announcement date.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,387Member
    You still need the D4s for sports.
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    edited June 2014
    For FPS yes you can make that argument. I been using the DF for sports (little league that is) and I'm doing fine (i think).

    The first set i took everything was frozen in time. The second time the coach and other critique was to get motion blur so I took a few photos at a time to get that blur and then when a play at a base was needed I left the finger on the shutter button.

    I haven't used the D800 for little league only for a basketball game but I think I would use the DF again at another basketball game.
    Post edited by Vipmediastar_JZ on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,387Member
    I used a D800 for basketball and it was fine; but I am not a sports shooting professional. I am sure they want the faster fps.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    edited June 2014
    Unfortunately it costs $10,000 to have both.
    but given the D810 has ISO 12,800 and 6 fps
    is there any need for both ?
    Having and using are two different things.
    My paid stuff I do everything I can not to go over iso 800 (1600 max)- That is the point I find when I start loosing color and detail enough for me to decide to add more flashes for an image and bring it back down. (Note that most films had a dynamic range of 8 evs or higher. I find keeping the camera at 10evs or better gives me the most leeway for editing.) Say a 810 give one more stop for color and detail so that would push me to 1600. The D4s's dynamic range doesn't drop below 8ev till ISO 25,600. Anyway you look at it, you get at least 2 full stops (if not more) of easily usable images. Most sites are showing luminescence noise results at 6,400 to be the same as iso 100. That is just plain nuts when you think about it. It is still a far better camera for low light shooting.

    6fps is a great increase for those who need it or think they do, but it is no 11fps.
    Post edited by TaoTeJared on
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,369Member
    Unfortunately it costs $10,000 to have both.
    but given the D810 has ISO 12,800 and 6 fps
    is there any need for both ?

    That's 6FPS in DX mode, 5FPS in FX. 5FPS is okay, but still a little on the slow side.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,352Member
    So what is wrong with 6 FPS in DX mode when you are shooting sports? PB_PM, understand you were just clarifying the FPS on the D810. I think 6 fps would cover most requirements and would agree that 8 fps would be ideal. If you must comprise, I would think 6 fps would work for a lot of people.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    I believe that the rumored specs of the 810 say that it can shoot 6fps with an MB-D12 (5 without) in FX mode. At least that's my recollection. I'll take that.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,369Member
    edited June 2014
    So what is wrong with 6 FPS in DX mode when you are shooting sports? PB_PM, understand you were just clarifying the FPS on the D810. I think 6 fps would cover most requirements and would agree that 8 fps would be ideal. If you must comprise, I would think 6 fps would work for a lot of people.
    DX is fine, if you need that crop, not so great if you don't.
    I believe that the rumored specs of the 810 say that it can shoot 6fps with an MB-D12 (5 without) in FX mode. At least that's my recollection. I'll take that.
    The rumored specs (at least ones this site) do not specify whether that shooting speed is for DX or FX.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    edited June 2014
    I am sure it will be a great camera. The D800/800e is perhaps Nikon's best camera at this time (and I include the D4/D4s) if you don't need the fps the D4 offers. But we don't all need all the 36mp all the time. Fortunately, Nikon gives us choices.
    Assuming that IQ across a broad range of shooting situations is what defines best, the D800/D800e combined with a professional prime like the 85 1.4G or 400 2.8G is the best camera ever produced in history in my view.

    But for those who wish, feel free to disagree.......
    Post edited by WestEndBoy on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,430Moderator
    edited June 2014
    The D4S/D810 are going to be poles apart on hi ISO and fps performance as others have said above. Not only would Nikon not let a clash of specs happen that would endanger their D4s sales, but have you ever actually tried shooting action at 6 fps and 11fps for comparison? Accidents in motorsports are over and done with very quickly and so having TWICE the number of shots of the action is essential, not optional.

    How many pro's around a circuit have 6fps cameras on the end of their monster lenses? None.

    The D810 will be a great camera (I hope), but let's keep it real people!
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited June 2014
    Accidents in motorsports are over and done with very quickly and so having TWICE the number of shots of the action is essential, not optional.

    Tommy may know the answer to this . Given at events such as F1, there are TV cameras covering every conceivable angle. Can a pro earn anything from pictures of accidents

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited June 2014
    When it come to shooting sports or any action event, the D3s/D4/D4s simply dominate. Main reason: buffer size and file size. I have pressed the shutter button on the D800/D800e and no matter how fast the memory card is, and are shooting in RAW (NEF), you will fill the buffer up after a few short bursts, thus the chances of you missing that "key shot" does come into play. This is not the case with the bodies I mentioned earlier.

    With that said, I know their are many good photographers here that have mastered the D800/D800e FPS performance and can make my argument mute...I will be the first to say that I have seen their great images. But should they ever get their hands on a D4/D4s, they will hopefully better understand my point.

    As for the upcoming D810...I too am looking forward to seeing what it has to deliver.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,430Moderator
    Accidents in motorsports are over and done with very quickly and so having TWICE the number of shots of the action is essential, not optional.

    Tommy may know the answer to this . Given at events such as F1, there are TV cameras covering every conceivable angle. Can a pro earn anything from pictures of accidents

    Go to WH Smiths and look at the motorsports mags to see the answer to that or even look at any serious motorsport website. People wouldn't do it if there wasn't money to be made doing it.
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited June 2014
    When it come to shooting sports or any action event, the D3s/D4/D4s simply dominate. Main reason: buffer size and file size.
    Yes I agree buffer size/ write speed is a D800 drawback
    Do the techies out there, think Moore's law will apply ?
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    edited June 2014
    I think that Moore's law is starting to slow down. I also think that this will impact camera tech. 20 years ago, anybody could get a great sensor (film). In 10 years, the cheapest Nikon DSLR will be FX and their won't be any significant difference (by today's standards) between a top end and low end sensor.

    Then it will get back to who is producing the best camera.

    FPS is not critical for me so I can concentrate on IQ. However, if I was shooting much action, the FPS and buffer size would dictate that I purchase a D4s. If the D5 has 36 megapixels, I might upgrade to that in the next cycle, but I may have to wait two cycles for 36 megapixels in a D4/5/6........

    Hate to say it, but he made in Thailand thing bothers me a bit......
    Post edited by WestEndBoy on
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    Having and working with the D800 and DF The sensors on both are awesome.
    The D800 is fantastic for dynamic range and when the crop is needed.
    The DF is great at high iso and im sure all of you already know this.
    If the D800 improves its iso that is a big plus.
    I have the DF maxed at iso 4000 and the images with ambient light and flash and even some tweaking the images are awesome.

    I would definately welcome improvements on the D810 such as the iso.
    Battery life improvement would be great.
    Focus trap is fixed.
    The ramdom memory card issue is fixed.
    Maybe the new d810 has all the current d800 firmware fixes with a new miirror and focus system improvements.

    I remember people mentioning that with the D800 you needed more precision but in reality it was the focusing issue all along.

    I used @golfs D4 and it was awesome in and out and I change my stance for some sports like car races you do need those critical FPS.

    I was reading an article how Chile soccer goalie faked and cheated an injury in 1989 for the world cup qualifications. One photographer captured the flare in flight and the whole ordeal.

    Few weeks ago i was using the DF for an asian festival. I captured breakdancing and some high speed yo-yo performance. Had the DF not been intrudeced i would hope for higher FPS.

  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    @sevencrossing

    Having never even seen an F1 race…LOL…. I have no idea about selling photos. One issue always is the credentials required to get into venues such as F1, NASCAR, Indy Car, etc. I would suspect if one had a particularly great shot of a car, such as the ones from several years ago of the Mercedes flying, this may be worthy of sales, but most folks like to watch the videos so still photos unless having some special artistic characteristic may be of less value.

    Now, about the D800 successor…. I am happy because I now have a chance to purchase a used D800E which is pristine and can do this at a substantial savings. I will use this for some motorsports so I can find out if the slow FPS is a problem…. LOL
    Msmoto, mod
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    I have been following this thread for some time.
    I shoot a fair amount of wildlife including BIF and diving eagles, with a D800e, am happy with it's frame rate, and believe that observation and timing are much more critical to capturing the 'critical moment', than frame rate.

    When using a D3, I intentionally slowed its high frame rate from 9 to 6 fps for most work (except acrobats).

    I am interested in the D810 if it has better / faster autofocus, and more buffer, as I think that is more relevant to my style of shooting than more FPS.

    I shot lots of pro sports with manual Nikons amd Leica's, and in that era motorized film cameras at a max of 4 fps (faster would rip film and break transports) were the best available.

    Regards ... H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    edited June 2014
    Most of my animal shots have been single shot except that last 4 attemps at BIF where I had it at CH.
    However I'm not really an animal shooter of any kind but I agree in part with @haroldp for timing and crititcal moment. The following image was with the D800 and 85mm 1.8g. I was there to get landscape photos but saw another photographer shooting the bard. I stood next to him and I followed the bird closely looking for a good shot without grass and finally at take off I fired the trigger.

    Take Off
    Post edited by Vipmediastar_JZ on
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 974Member

    I am interested in the D810 if it has better / faster autofocus, and more buffer, as I think that is more relevant to my style of shooting than more FPS.
    I agree (even though I don't mind more FPS). I actually think it is strange that Nikon doesn't make the buffers larger. Considering the price of USB sticks it should not be a large cost to make the buffer a lot larger. Something like 4 GB is really cheap and it could hold around a 100 images, or 8 GB... Lets hope that they adress this in the D810.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited June 2014
    I think the buffer is a bit more like RAM and not like a USB stick, which I think is ROM
    but as even, I could be wrong

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 974Member
    edited June 2014
    ROM is by definition Read Only Memory and that is not the case with regular USB sticks. But there may be other requirements I don't know about. It could be that the memory needs to be faster than USB sticks.
    Post edited by snakebunk on
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    The Buffers utilize chips that are more like RAM than USB drives - very, very different speeds between the two.

    I get that some really want the FPS, but I'm always wondering what they did 5, 10 years ago, when it was 3FPS.

    I went through the rumored specs again and I can't see any real bonus unless you are one who is pushing a D800 to the edge all the time and are making a living off of it. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a lot of improvements that are worth the difference in price the D810 will have over the D800.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited June 2014
    So are any improvement Nikon could make to the D800 to make anyone rush out and buy one?

    I have only one moan about my D800 out fit; it is big and heavy
    While Nikons top end cameras, incorporate a mirror box, I don't see that changing
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
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