Flash Photography - Discussions

Rx4Photo

@ sideways, +1 on the Black Foamie Thing from Neil vanNiekirk's site. I made one as well as a white one. I use the white one instead of the white index card on top of the flash when I want forward bounce yet avoiding direct light on the subject. The "Tangents" section on Neil vanNiekirk's is full of good teachings.

DY8

@ sideways +1
My suggestion would be to forget about all those fancy flash diffusers...for now. Learn to use your flash without them to learn about light characteristics such as directionality. Experiment with bouncing straight flash against walls and try to control its direction on your subject. The flash diffuser products are designed to diffuse (spread) out light in front of camera to avoid hot spots, but it just makes your image look "fine", not great. Diffuser tools are good when you are rushed or not sure what you are doing or in an environment that does not allow for bounce such as outdoors or in a huge auditorium or venue with black walls and ceiling. They will allow you to "get the photo", but they will not have much depth or character. Your photos may be well exposed, but they won't be interesting. When starting out it is tempting to buy all sorts of gadgets with the promise of great flash photography, but you really need to understand HOW to control your light and what characteristic you are trying to achieve. Do some simple experiments with your flash on-camera and take some photos of a subject (hopefully a person) using different techniques such as direct flash, bounce to ceiling at 45 degrees, bounce to wall on left, bounce to wall on right, bounce to wall behind you, etc...then study the difference of how that light is falling on your subject. Look at the shadows and highlights, softness, etc.. KEEP experimenting and go back to online resources to hone your skill.

Regarding batteries....yes, the Eneloops were the best I ever used, but now I've changed to Powerex by Maha.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883816-REG/Powerex_MHRAA4_Rechargeable_AA_NiMH.html
Get their system of batteries and chargers. Amazing!! I use their Imedion batteries with my flashes and they last what seems like forever. I use the MH-C801D charger which allows for 1 to 8 batteries to be charged independently. It has a soft, quick and conditioning mode. BEST BEST I've ever used.

MikeGunter

Hi,

@DY8 "Experiment with bouncing straight flash against walls." & "using different techniques such as direct flash, bounce to ceiling at 45 degrees, bounce to wall on left, bounce to wall on right, bounce to wall behind you, etc...then study the difference of how that light is falling on your subject. Look at the shadows and highlights, softness, etc.. KEEP experimenting and go back to online resources to hone your skill."

You advise good and well-intentioned, but coming from a press background where I had zero control of where my subjects were to stand, set or walk, I also had zero control of the color of the walls, ceilings or height/distance of the bounce for flash all of which would have an effect on what happens with the subject.

You would certainly know that would affect the photography and warn the OP that she/he would want to experiment first and have full knowledge of what such lighting setups would do to outcomes.

Hard edges do produce more dramatic shadows and depth, however, previsualization (a word not used much anymore - alas), shooting a picture that you want to see means sees it as you want to see, sharp light, soft light, whatever.

Your comments are excellent, but I would include a diffuser in any lighting kit - it, too. It's part of part of the skill set, and practice using it just as rigorously.

Thanks for the tip on the Maha batteries. I use Enloop, but when they peter out, I may give the Mahas a try.

My best,

Mike

DY8

@MikeGunter
thx for your comments and a very good point regarding potential for colour cast from bouncing light off a coloured wall.
Absolutely agree that competency using light diffusers is part of the skill set for any well rounded photographer. I suggested that someone starting out with flash photography should practice first without one in order to better visualize the light characteristics from a typical flashgun. ie/be aware of the pattern of light that sprays out of a flashgun and how to control that spray from the built-in functions such as zooming the flash head, or changing the illumination pattern (standard, even, centre-weighted). Having a diffuser attached will make that impossible to visualize and therefore harder to learn.

I can see how this tool is invaluable to press photography for all the reasons you stated. Some characteristics that make press images powerful is the subject, the context, composition and the story behind it. Creative lighting technique is not as important as just getting good exposure.

For those wanting to learn about creative lighting techniques such as Rembrandt lighting and such need to learn from the basics then add shaping tools, including diffusers, to achieve a specific need. This plays into Mike's comment about "pre-visualization". I think that's key as well. A photographer should have an idea of the image they want to make, then determine what gear and settings are needed to achieve their objective. In the world of digital and instant preview sometimes this very basic skill is overlooked.

BTW, my original set of Eneloops are now 3.5 years and still going strong. No obvious signs of performance fade.

Cheers!

safyre

Just wanted to add that diffusers are important because not every occasion will you be presented with low ceilings or walls to bounce off of. This is where a diffuser comes in handy since its your only option to soften light without direct flash. Secondly, even if you do have a low ceiling to bounce off of, you might not always have the correct positioning, and bouncing flash might lead to some unwanted shadows below the eyes (raccoon eyes). Having a diffuser helps act as a fill light to lighten these shadows and make the subject more appealing.

mmcdonald

Just wondering but i'm thinking of getting my first flash unit, really just with the intention of learning as much as possible and hopefully using it creatively. Which units would you guys recommend?

Msmoto

Using flash....this is really no different than any other light source. One approach is to think for a moment about where you want your light source. Try practicing in a dark room with a flashlight, a good bright LED unit is fine. Just point it around, bounce it into things, umbrellas, walls, etc., and see exactly what is happening. Have a subject of some type, a mannequin can be useful, and experiment moving the flashlight all around. Once you can visualize what is happening, then you will be able to use your flash unit.

I think the only way any one on this forum has learned about lighting is to have experimented. So, once you have seen what the flashlight does, grasped an understanding of what effects bounced flash and direct have, then shoot a lot of photos and sees what you get. Once you have done this, you can begin utilizing flash like any other light source. And when done properly as an added source for ambient light photography, the flash should not be seen. In some cases there is no ambient light so the flash can be used to "create" a natural light source.

Practice, practice, practice....

Oh, I have a Nikon SB-800 and studio Elinchrom units. I think there are some very good units for less money and am certain some folks will add their favorites...

Rx4Photo

Another good pointer is after you've learned enough about the flash and what your photos will look like with flash on camera - then get the flash off the camera. That's a similar concept to bouncing the flash off a wall. I did an entire outside photo shoot once with the SB-900 (with diffuser) on a tripod, the flash was connected to the camera hot shoe with a SC-29 cable and it stayed within arms length of me to prevent harsh shadows but yet improved the dramatic look of the photos. I could have used CLS but enjoyed the thought of a direct connection and no misfires.

haroldp

Be careful not to use alkaline batteriies If you use the fifth battery on an SB-800. This is designed for re-chargeables which are 1.2 volts, alkaline are 1.5 volt and using 5 will risk damage to the flash unit.

The manual clearly warns about this , but very few actually read it.

Regards ... H

Swame_sp

Just wanted to update you guys that my friend offered me to use his studio stuff (for a while!!).... curtains (with stands), 2 black silver reflecting umbrellas, 2 white umbrellas, 4 stands and about 3 different background clothes (White, green and black).

It was all fresh out of the box, he hasn't used it at all, I got it opened and fixed it in my room... It just feels great to look at them.

Super excited.. I had to use 15w lights and it was okay, not powerful enough. Did a lot of experiments with the set up.

My question here is:
- When to use different backgrounds (any suggested situations)
- What's the power of lights to be used as the umbrellas can hold only one light.

Thanks!!!

TaoTeJared

My question here is:
- When to use different backgrounds (any suggested situations)
- What's the power of lights to be used as the umbrellas can hold only one light.

Sounds like fun!!!!

Backgrounds - I never knew of any rules - just have to play - I do generally go for having the background opposite of the spectrum (white shirt/ black background) of the subject. It is just easier and quicker to set up. You can do some striking thing doing the same though. Green/Blue screen (if bright chromatic) is to add your own backgrounds.

Power of the lights - no steadfast rule. I generally just start them at 1/16 -32(with one light) and work it up in power to get the look I want. Then add the second light, and work up. That is with flashes.

Continuous, which is what it looks like you have, depends. 15w, I'm assuming that is a CFL bulb? For that you have to bring it really close to the subject. But that would be more of a macro type power. I would just go to the store and find a 100w bulb for the stands. Or a 100w and a 75w/50w for the fill light.

Swame_sp

Thanks TTJ...

Umbrella light holder, (linked) seems to hold only lights, is there any way that I could throw in a sb800 on to this?

Yeah I was referring to CFL 15w that I use in my home. With 2 white and silver reflecting umbrellas, what would be best combination to use them.

I mean speed light in reflective umbrella and continuous fill light in white? Any standard rule, last night I tried with both silver umbrella on 15w light, raised high above and it was sort of okay. So wondering is any combination that I could start with.

TaoTeJared

There is not really any steadfast rules or combinations in using different umbrellas etc. Really the best way to learn is to shoot in full manual mode and just "play" with everything in every combination till you find something you like - then write it down and go back to playing.

You can always just tape a flash to the pole shoot it into or through the umbrella for the cheap way to do things. (You might be surprised how many of us actually do that.) Point being you don't always need special gear, especially if you are just playing around. 15w is so low, it would be hard to get much of it to enter into the photo with a flash as well. You could drag the shutter (low shutter like 1/10) or something but that may not work well depending on what you are trying to do. Mixing two different types of light is certainly difficult (time it takes to get things they way you want it) than just using the same source. You also can get weird color casts working with two sources as well which can be very difficult to fix. You probably need at least a 50w bulb to make it much easier. For instance I actually have 15w bulbs in the can lighting in my little studio so it provides a bit of light to move around and not to trip on stuff. I use that wattage because my flashes (sb900) overpower those lights so it doesn't have any effect on my photos.

Ironheart

15w CFL =~ 60w Incandescent. I would use the 23w CFL which gives 100w equivalent with much less heat than traditional "hot" Incandescent bulbs.

+1 for the gaffers tape solution :-) I never leave home without it...

Gitzo

DY8 says;
Regarding batteries....yes, the Eneloops were the best I ever used, but now I've changed to Powerex by Maha.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883816-REG/Powerex_MHRAA4_Rechargeable_AA_NiMH.html
Get their system of batteries and chargers. Amazing!! I use their Imedion batteries with my flashes and they last what seems like forever. I use the MH-C801D charger which allows for 1 to 8 batteries to be charged independently. It has a soft, quick and conditioning mode. BEST BEST I've ever used.

@Sideways;
The best advice you'll get all week, relative to batteries! I use the same charger......here's why; there's a HUGE difference in batteries; they may all look alike, but believe me, they definitely are NOT all alike; most chargers have a single charging circuit; The Maha MH-C 801 D has 8 individual charging circuits; here's why that's very important; batteries all look alike on the outside; but it's what's INSIDE that produces the power we need; there is a lot of extremely complex "chemistry" taking place inside of a battery; so batteries all discharge at slightly different rates; so when you stick a bunch of discharged cells into a single circuit charger, every cell charges exactly the same; when the first cell reaches full charge, the charger shuts off, and you end up with a bunch of cells having varying amounts of charge; for some things, ( a flash light maybe), this probably wouldn't make much difference; but when you're using speed light, (especially more than one unit), you really need all of your cells producing the exact same amount of power. I haven't priced the MH C-801 D on B&H, but I'm thinking it will be in the $100 range; You can get one on Amazon for $64.50; Re; Batteries; I've been using Sanyo eneloops myself, and they are very good; The ones from Maha may be even better; The important thing to remember is, always get "pre-charged rechargeable" or "low discharge" nickel metal-hydride cells. (NOT lithium) (there's another big lengthy story about those!)

here's a bit of "tech" about the charger;
The MH-C801D features EIGHT independent circuits that charge one to eight AA or AAA batteries in any combination. Recharge in 1 hour regardless of number of batteries in normal mode. In Soft Charging Mode, recharges in two hours. The MH-C801D charger incorporates a large LCD screen displaying the charging status of each battery. The English-language-based display (CHARGE, DONE, CONDITIONING, etc) replaces traditional LED indicators. The MH-C801D provides user with the option to choose between a soft charge and a fast charge mode. The soft charge delivers the highest battery life and allows 100% compatibility with older, lower capacity batteries. The fast charge allows eight batteries to be fully charged to their maximum capacity in around one hour! The Eight Cell charger is embedded with a high-rate battery conditioner that will charge, deep-discharge and recharge batteries automatically for maximum rejuvenation. Maha Energy's team of engineers developed a brand new Eight Cell, 0.001V resolution, microprocessor. This microprocessor will charge batteries to their maximum capacity without overcharging or undercharging. The new precision microprocessor assures maximum battery longevity. The MH-C801D delivers just the right charge every time! The MH-C801D intelligent system will charge batteries anywhere around the world with a heavy duty switching AC Power Supply. This 100-240V, 50/60Hz universal adapter employs a rugged DIN connector for reliable contact. The MH-C801D is perfect for home, office or travel!

Also....IMHO....always use "soft charge".......your cells will last a lot longer.

Gitzo

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=westcott+spiderlite+TD+6

Someone mentioned CFL lighting........go to this site and knock yourself out!

spraynpray

Interesting recommendation of CFL's there Gitzo. I read that whereas normal incandescent bulbs have a fairly complete spectrum, there are peaks and troughs in the CFLs spectrum that make them hard to compensate for.

Anybody know anything about that? They sure play havoc with my computer screen calibration.

Msmoto

@ spraynpray

I agree, the fluorescent bulb is generally a line spectrum source. And some colors simply will not reproduce. If they have something different, this will be interesting. It will require a "color rendering index" CRI of close to 100. It would be interesting to see the little color chart under these lights.

haroldp

The powerex batteries you mention are 2700 mah whereas eneloops are 2000, which accounts for lasting much longer in a session, but they are not low self discharge, and should be charged within a day or two of use, or they will lose charge to where the eneloops actually have more.

Powerex also makes LSD batteries but they are also 2000 mah.

Neither is better or worse, but they should be handled differently.

I like having eneloops charged on the shelf rather than having a charging party before a shoot. Fully loaded out, I need 54 AA batteries to load my flashes and battery packs for an umbrella shoot.

La Crosse has an equivalent charger to the Maha Powerex for 4 batteries, individually metered and variable current selling for about $ 30 on amazon.

The future of constant lighting will be LED's, already in use for high end stage lighting bt more expensive than CFL or incandescent.

Regards ... H

Msmoto

@ haroldp
"The future of constant lighting will be LED's, already in use for high end stage lighting bt more expensive than CFL or incandescent. - See more at: http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/224/flash-photography-discussions#Item_44"

Absolutely yes! I live in a house which is 100% LED. And, I am thinking of building some panels of LED's which are run from a 12 volt constant power source. My house uses normal 120v switches to power outlets where the LED power supplies are located and then the 12v runs to the various LED circuits.

Golf007sd

Here is a great video for those that are thinking about getting there flash off camera and are thinking about getting some of the products offered by Pocketwizard.

ibecamewe

Flash photography can be a major source of confusion even for experienced photographers. After learning that exposure for ambient light is controlled by aperture, shutter speed and ISO, flash photography adds a whole new element to the mix - an artificial light source which can be independently controlled. What's more, when we tell you that the shutter speed doesn't really come into play when controlling flash exposures you may wonder if it's worth the bother re-learning what you thought you knew when you could just stick with shooting in natural light only.

Many people are put off flash due to bad experiences with harsh washed out photographs with demonic looking subjects glaring at the photographer with bright red eyes. You would be forgiven for thinking that flash photography was the route to evil and not worth bothering with. However, nothing could be further from the truth. Once you have learned how to control flash you will discover that it can be used to create fantastic images from portrait to still life where you have full control over the lighting; your very own sun in your camera bag!

Benji2505

IMHO shutter speed is very much relevant in flash photography because it controls the background. My experience with flash is that aperture controls the subject lighting and shutter speed the background (if not separately lit).

Vipmediastar_JZ

Be careful not to use alkaline batteriies If you use the fifth battery on an SB-800. This is designed for re-chargeables which are 1.2 volts, alkaline are 1.5 volt and using 5 will risk damage to the flash unit.

The manual clearly warns about this , but very few actually read it.

Regards ... H

oops I been using them like this for years and no issues. I'll have to re-read the manual. Maybe one corroded battery in the main battery and extra battery compartment but it was probably a bad batch.

I was looking for eneloop batteries and i found this thread.
ill be ordering the eneloop XX for the flashes and the regular for the transmitter and receivers.

Ade

Regular alkaline batteries work fine with the SB-800 (four or five batteries).

What should be avoided are "high power" manganese batteries. These are also known as "NiOx" or "Oxyride" batteries (Panasonic's brand name) and made using Nickel Oxyhydroxide. They were also sold as different brands including Duracell PowerPix and Kodak Oxy-Alkaline.

NiOx batteries are not compatible with the SB-800 due to their high initial voltage (1.7V) and low internal-resistance (which can cause them to overheat). They can be used safely with the SB-900.

NiOx batteries lost out to lithium in the non-rechargeable market. I believe are they no longer mass produced, though old stock are still available for purchase online.