If Canon can do xyz why cant Nikon?"

sevencrossing

Here at NRF we are pretty good at answering most questions and spending other peoples money but there is one question we can never answer
It goes something like this
Q "if Canon can do xyz why cant Nikon?"
It is a pointless question, that we can never answer, If the they are so smitten with Canon, why are they still here ?

paulr

I think You asked a question, Sevencrossing and answered it you self.

mikep

canon and nikon are best friends, the CEOs probably sleep in the same bed at night tbh

PB_PM

@mikep I think that might be taking the relationship between Canon and Nikon a little too far. I think a better way of looking at them is two brothers who don't get along. They like to do things their own way and are constantly trying to one up each other by making minor changes to something they already have.

On to the main subject. It really does not matter what Nikon or Canon can do that the other cannot. It's like picking TV's with similar specs. The choice comes purely down to personal preference in terms of design and software. In my mind, having played with both system, that is about all that's really different between them. All the hate from users of one brand to another is just a waste of time an energy. Use what you like, take some photos and don't worry about the rest

NSXTypeR

I think it's the "Grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.

Either that or it's Stockholm syndrome.

spraynpray

@sevencrossing I will answer your question without joining in on provocation and without emotion or making a joke of you. It is simple enough to answer (but then I am sure you know that, you didn't ask the question because you didn't know or couldn't work it out, did you?).

Both companies make the same products - Cameras and lenses, both cameras are even based in the same country/culture. The two companies are the two main competitors on their chosen market and also in most people's minds they are the first two that come to mind when comparing equipment. Because of this it is obvious that people compare them first. They are, after all, comparable. There is no hate involved.

As several of my friends use Canon cameras, I have had to become more familiar with them and find that joking aside - guess what - they are very comparable. At first, I thought there was a clear difference more in usability than quality but as I become more familiar, it becomes clear they are actually better at some things than Nikon (shock horror) and so it is only normal that a Nikon user would like those best points rolled into their chosen product. The point I made in the DX lens thread that you are taking a public snipe at me for is true. The example that the Canon 17-55 is much better than the Nikon at the moment is true and perfectly relevant to the point in the thread I made. Will it make me jump to Canon or does it mean I am smitten with their products? No (but then you knew that too). But, as I've said before, it will make me wonder what is going on at Nikon that they miss out on the opportunity to make money by supplying accessories which would add value to their MAIN selling product line (DX).

BTW: I had a look around and currently mine is the only reference to Canon that you could be referring to so why didn't you address me by name instead of using a cowardly 'they'?

I can only wonder what made you post this thread, but then with a name like sevencrossing I should know. Trolls do live under bridges after all...

@mods: please close this thread as it only does harm NR's reputation and credibility.

paulr

As a Nikon user I am glad that Canon are there, manufacturers need competition to keep them one step ahead

Msmoto

I might suggest this thread is a generic discussion of forum behaviors. There are those who want to anonymously vent their prejudices, then the folks who want to start trouble, and the ones who are true Nikon devotees and are attempting to send a message to Nikon. Of course most of us just like to chat about photography and learn something.

From my perspective we have very few trouble makers on NRF. We may all from time to time get a bit over zealous, and sometimes we take things too personally, but that is human nature and is easier to do on a forum than face to face.

The 'why can't Nikon question' may be simply a cry of frustration as well. This might be heard on this forum from the Canon folks who have lost their way and are seeking a new brand to worship, but lack the social skills to ask for help in a meaningful manner.

Note: The above post must be taken with a grain of salt and with tongue in cheek

sevencrossing

and the ones who are true Nikon devotees and are attempting to send a message to Nikon. ............... Note: The above post must be taken with a grain of salt and with tongue in cheek

I think you have hit the nail on the head


Do people really believe NRF is a good way to send a message to Nikon ???

spraynpray
it will make me wonder what is going on at Nikon that they miss out on the opportunity to make money by supplying accessories which would add value to their MAIN selling product line -

Sorry S&P only Nikon can answer that
My guess is, that they believe they, would NOT make money
I suspect Nikon new product division are pretty good a this, yes they will make mistakes, but they have been playing the game a long time

mikep

@mikep I think that might be taking the relationship between Canon and Nikon a little too far. I think a better way of looking at them is two brothers who don't get along. They like to do things their own way and are constantly trying to one up each other by making minor changes to something they already have

i am not just being facetious, there are pro-competition laws in japan and companies fix prices; it is the norm over there.

nikon and canon both make extremely similar products, their cameras look alike, function alike, their flashes look alike, their lenses, their product naming systems are alike, prices are of course very similar (for example their practically identical 70-200s are $20 apart).

ill give you an example of what its like sometimes with japanese companies. i put a picture on PAD yesterday of sakurajima in kagoshima in japan. i was standing in a ferry port waiting for my boat to arrive. in that ferry port there are 2 ferry companies you can chose from. the boats they operate are identical right down to the stripey paint jobs, seats etc the same, but with 2 differences between them: one of them takes 5 minutes longer (on a 2 hour journey), but the faster one costs $5 more for the ticket ($90 ticket). their schedules alternate perfectly and they undoubtedly work together on some level.

this is just speculation on my part, i do not work for either canon or nikon, but i guarantee you that they have dealings together, and if it turned out that their CEOs really did sleep in the same bed at night, id laugh but would not be surprised

(i dont say this to bash nikon or canon, as i think its perfectly acceptable behaviour, as i disagree with government interference in voluntary agreements between individuals or companies)

WestEndBoy

and the ones who are true Nikon devotees and are attempting to send a message to Nikon. ............... Note: The above post must be taken with a grain of salt and with tongue in cheek

I think you have hit the nail on the head


Do people really believe NRF is a good way to send a message to Nikon ???

spraynpray
it will make me wonder what is going on at Nikon that they miss out on the opportunity to make money by supplying accessories which would add value to their MAIN selling product line -

Sorry S&P only Nikon can answer that
My guess is, that they believe they, would NOT make money
I suspect Nikon new product division are pretty good a this, yes they will make mistakes, but they have been playing the game a long time

Either not make money, or make more money following a different strategy.

Nikon might be able to launch 50 products that they think will make money this year, but only have the resources to launch 20. They will of course pick the 20 most profitable and strategic things. Maybe this means a DF but no wide DX primes.

NSXTypeR

Actually... both are pretty similar right now in my opinion- ask Canon and Nikon where their high end DX is... and they'll just ask you to buy a Pentax K3.

The 7D hasn't had a replacement in about as long as the D300s has been. Which means nonexistent. All Canon and Nikon has been doing has been replacing the bottom end DX stuff.

spraynpray

@NSXTypeR: But you can still buy the 7D new (and it is still quite a capable performer) and at least there are rumours about a 7DII.

Bottom end? D7100? @-)

In my opinion, Nikon have been neglecting DX in terms of lens refreshes long enough that I'm sure it isn't an oversight. That's OK so long as the likes of Tokina, Tamron and Sigma are upping their game. It could be said that if those other companies make enough money just doing lenses, it can't be an insignificant market.

Maybe Nikon could officially hand over their DX lens manufacture to Sigma - at least we would know where we stood...

NSXTypeR

@NSXTypeR: But you can still buy the 7D new (and it is still quite a capable performer) and at least there are rumours about a 7DII.

Bottom end? D7100? @-)

In my opinion, Nikon have been neglecting DX in terms of lens refreshes long enough that I'm sure it isn't an oversight. That's OK so long as the likes of Tokina, Tamron and Sigma are upping their game. It could be said that if those other companies make enough money just doing lenses, it can't be an insignificant market.

Maybe Nikon could officially hand over their DX lens manufacture to Sigma - at least we would know where we stood...

Wait, since when was the D300s discontinued?

Both sides have been neglecting DX. Nikon would be stupid to ignore DX, but I'm happy where I am right now. For all we know, Nikon could announce the D300s replacement any time now. Right before the Olympics would be a good idea.

I pretty much have all the lenses I need to shoot what I need to shoot, so it's all good for me. The pro DX shooters must be worried though.

Like you said though, I'm glad someone cares about DX shooters (thanks Sigma!).

spraynpray

Wait, since when was the D300s discontinued?

You're right NSX, I'm surprised to find it is still listed on the Nikon UK site, but a check around the outlets find it usually isn't listed and nobody has any stock at all now. The 7D is however, listed in body only and bundled forms and in stock as such.

Msmoto

The D300s at B & H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/635645-REG/Nikon_25464_D300s_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

But, the advantage is in the ergonomics….I suspect most would find the D7100 outperforms in actual final image.

And, as I have suggested on other threads, the heads of Nikon and Canon on the golf course….chat about what and when.

Photobug

+1 Msmoto.

Lots of executives talk on the golf course. It's amazing how much is discussed and the decisions are made on the golf course in the US. Totally agree.

WestEndBoy

I work in an industry where lots is discussed on the golf course between competitors and that is in Canada. In fact, I am having lots of those discussions myself. This is not illegal or unethical. There are lots of issues that effect the whole industry that I am in. I would imagine that given Japanese business culture and the relative similarity between Nikon and Canon, lots is discussed on the golf course.

manhattanboy

Q "if Canon can do xyz why cant Nikon?"
It is a pointless question, that we can never answer, If the they are so smitten with Canon, why are they still here ?

It is a mistake to be smitten with any company. Staying objective is the best thing for performance.

For me personally, I would have never even thought of testing out a Canon camera if it weren't for the Nikon Rumors Post about Canon cameras features. Ironic, no?

spraynpray

The D300s at B & H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/635645-REG/Nikon_25464_D300s_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

But, the advantage is in the ergonomics….I suspect most would find the D7100 outperforms in actual final image.

And, as I have suggested on other threads, the heads of Nikon and Canon on the golf course….chat about what and when.

I didn't look in the USA Tommie, I live in the UK so checked all of our 'B&H' type outlets and found most don't even bother listing it now let alone stock it.

TaoTeJared

Wow this thread went way off topic...
-----------------------------------------------

On to the main subject. It really does not matter what Nikon or Canon can do that the other cannot. It's like picking TV's with similar specs. The choice comes purely down to personal preference in terms of design and software.

I would like to agree that sounds good (at least in a passing glance) but in reality it really does matter to all of us that they try to match each other and they need to on most levels and items. (Nuances/unique designs aside.) If they do not compete, we get lack luster products - that's what competition is about between companies, better products &/or services. You can also add "standardizing" things like video and audio from incorporating other's products as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with incorporating good features into your products that your competitor has - that is just good business.

I posted the Kelby video because I thought it was interesting and also because I had similar experiences playing with Canon bodies especially with the customization that is there. We also had a thread about Canon's Flash system and how it had some unique and good operating designs, along with wireless RF flashes now. I have been reading and seeing various photogs dump Nikon for Mirror-less bodies who wanted lighter systems and who also raced to try the DF but didn't find it compelling to keep one mostly due to the lack of smaller primes.

I'm not trying to make a "rant on Nikon" or say the grass is greener on the other side, but there comes a point when you look at the tools you have, the tools you need, and then what tools would be really helpful. Canon has a lot of good tools from lenses, to camera's, flashes, user interface in their bodies and to professional services. Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Canon seem to really listen to photographers and add things they want. If I take a step back and look at the horizon, honestly as of late, Nikon really doesn't seem to want to listen to their customers at all or incorporate what other companies are finding success in, and dictate "what is best for you." Nikon does seem to be falling behind in the "refinements" department and meeting desires of many users. I'm not sure what to make of it or if the next generation of systems will include it, but that may be too late.

sevencrossing

, I live in the UK so checked all of our 'B&H' type outlets and found most don't even bother listing it now let alone stock it.

If you do want one

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/product/nikon-d300s-body-only/355-303A

spraynpray

I don't count Calumet as they are often pricey (which is prolly why they have stock - if they do in fact have stock). The companies I looked at are like B&H or Adorama in their business activities - good prices and good service. I can't afford a 10%price hike just to get good service. Before you predictably post that you have only ever had good prices and service from Calumet - I got ripped off by them.

sevencrossing

Before you predictably post that you have only ever had good prices and service from Calumet - I got ripped off by them.

Sorry to hear that; they certainly used to be way too expensive

But over the past 2/3 years my experience with them is 100% positive

I ordered my D800 from them when it was first announced, Nikon then increased the UK price, Calumet honored the original price, even though I had not even paid a deposit

If I can find something cheaper, My local branch are all way happy to haggle

You can often negotiate a good deal on any own brand items

The 300s is in stock at ; Drummond Street; MK; Edinburgh; Birmingham and Glasgow

Godless

I think it's the "Grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.

Not entirely.

One thing Nikon is sorely missing is a 400mm f/5.6 VR - Really, this, NOW.

Canon has an optically decent, weight- and cost-effective one. And they do have a 400mm f/4 DO IS, which would be good enough for me as well. And they have the MP-65E magnifying macro, and the 17mm f/4 TS, and the 8-15mm full-frame fisheye. I could switch now, as I have but two Nikon lenses and no bodies of my own atm. Food for thought.

Both systems lack a modern, cheapo, f/2.8 lightweight 20mm landscape prime. And that is a shame. I would travel the world with the 20mm + 85mm combo, and might rent the longer ones when needed.

sevencrossing

One thing Nikon is sorely missing is a 400mm f/5.6 VR - Really, this, NOW.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 80–400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR ????

cheapo, f/2.8 lightweight 20mm landscape

second hand
Nikon 20-35mm f/2.8 D AF
Yes they are zooms not primes

but is that big issue?