I got the opportunity so figured I might ask D7100 Vs D700

scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
edited March 2014 in D90/D7x00
Well I normally try to refrain from asking this type question. I just rent the gear I am looking at and get a hands on evaluation but my time is limited and rental companies won't deliver to my location. I was just planning to attend the sporting event since I am really not prepared for it but I got my hands on a 200-400 f4 VRI for a couple of weeks and have a desire to put it though its paces. I had already purchased my ticket for the Bahrain Gran Prix Formula 1 event. I don't know my exact seat location but if I get this chance doubt I will be in my seat (probably pretty far back in the aisle so I am not in the way). I did ask to make sure I could carry it in the event, I was told it wouldn't be an issue. Any one that has been there before feel free to let me know otherwise.

I currently have with me my trusty D700 but not sure if that will be enough so here is where I ask someone who has experience with both cameras to give me some valuable input on my situation:

I would be shooting motorsports at night.
I would assume the track will be lit up pretty good though but its not natural sunlight
I will be roughly 800-1600 ft away from my target(s) according to google earth (where they won't be behind a fence and actually might be eye level at this point)
The targets will be moving roughly 190-230 MPH
The targets are aprox 18 ft in length and 4ft high

I have practiced a bit of hand holding with the lens, during the day I was fine, at night well VR is good but not that good. I have a tripod but doubt I would be able to set that up, figure the lens is bad enough. The areas at night I have to test are not that well lit though so figure I have a better shot at the track Vs a normal street with two lamp post over 100 yards apart.

Where my thoughts are at the moment. I have a lens that gets pretty good "reach" but the DX crop factor would probably help and the ability to crop if need be with the D7100. I think the AF of the D7100 might actually be a bit better than my D700 since it can focus down to F8. I am wondering if the ISO of the D7100 can match the D700 (it might be better but this is the personal experience part I don't have). I did not bring the battery grip with me so I am limited to 5 FPS with the D700 but the D7100 can at least do 6 FPS. The only thing that will drive me nuts is the menu system, I hear its similar to my D7000 but not exactly the same. I worry about the buffer size but a few shots are better than no shots at all. It might be wise just to have a backup camera since my D700 is over 3-4 years old. The only other camera I have with me is a D200 that has been IR converted, that's not going to help me here.

I know it might sound crazy to purchase a camera for one time use mainly but when I return to the US I would sell my D7000 and keep the D7100, the cost of the ticket is more than I would lose on the purchase even if I just sold the D7100 right after. It would cost me more than a D4 to return and try to attempt this again much less the luck of a 200-400 F4.

As I know my seat location and go out to the track before hand and watch some other racing events that are combined I will get some practice. I figure my best bet might be to find a good "spot" to trap focus and have a decent back ground. The other option but much more involved would be panning, which might be my only option if the ISO can't hold up at night but might make better shots anyway.
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Comments

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,363Member
    I'd just stick with the D700, it should be more than good enough for any motor sports. The larger buffer of the D700 will more than make up for the extra frame per second the D7100 offers. The D7100 can only shoot for 1.3 seconds and then the buffer is full, while the D700 will give you 2 or 3 seconds if you have fast CF cards. Bahrain will be a part daylight, part evening race this year, so during the early phases of the race you will have some time to shoot with natural light.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,427Moderator
    I have no experience of the D700 but I have the D7100. There are differences in the menu structure and button layout between the D7000 and D7100, but I was able to master the D7100 very fast and I'm sure you would too. Only the slight difference in the position of the ISO button still catches me but I got round that by setting up easy ISO.

    I think the D7100 would do well for you as it gets excellent results to ISO 6400 as well as having a good AF system and the crop factor advantage.

    I look forward to seeing your pix scooby.
    Always learning.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    The interchange of D7000 & D700 is confusing. I'm lost on what you have now FX or DX?

    Generally speaking:
    Personally I would prefer the higher MP and crop factor of the D7100 considering what distances you are shooting at. Everything else outside of this one event, I would prefer a D700 FX over the DX.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,203Member
    Can you get a battery grip?

    If you can you'll shoot at 8 FPS and you wouldn't have to worry about the D7100. Then again, I have no idea how the buffer is going to be.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,363Member
    The buffer lasts about 2 seconds at 8FPS on the D700 (Buffer is around 17-20 RAW frames), you might even get more off with a fast card.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,291Member
    Go with a fast card and the D7100 and if you are running into buffer issues in RAW, switch to JPEG. You will be amazed how long you can hold the shutter down and not fill the buffer.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    The interchange of D7000 & D700 is confusing. I'm lost on what you have now FX or DX?

    Generally speaking:
    Personally I would prefer the higher MP and crop factor of the D7100 considering what distances you are shooting at. Everything else outside of this one event, I would prefer a D700 FX over the DX.
    I currently have with me at this minute a D700 with no battery grip and a D200 that has been IR converted. I have a D7000 back in the US but doesn't help me here. My main concern is the ISO ability of the D7100, is it better than the D700. I have this feeling I will need all the low light speed I can get (two things that cost you if they are put in one package). I have a few CF cards that write at 90 or 100 MB/sec. The advantage the D7100 will give me is the ability to crop and having a 300-600mm lens. I would have to agree, I would usually perfer FX over DX. I would say mainly due to the menu system and I have used my D700 more than anything else.

    To answer other questions, all I can get here is what any standard camera shop might carry. I don't think a battery grip for a D700 will be avalible. If I pickup a D7100, I will have to spend a day to train myself but not out of my reach by any means.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,427Moderator
    My main concern is the ISO ability of the D7100, is it better than the D700.
    From what I see the D7100 has the edge on the D700 for high ISO noise.
    Always learning.
  • ElvisheferElvishefer Posts: 329Member
    I love my D700, but it sounds like a D7100 would be a more versatile choice, and therefore better in this instance.
    D700, 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, 24-70mm f/2.8, 14-24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4G, 200mm f/4 Micro, 105mm f/2.8 VRII Micro, 35mm f/1.8, 2xSB900, 1xSB910, R1C1, RRS Support...

    ... And no time to use them.
  • SquamishPhotoSquamishPhoto Posts: 608Member
    Neither the 7100 or the 700 have the necessary buffer to handle the frame rates you are hoping to achieve if you are planning on shooting RAW. I'd rent a D4, personally.

    Also, here is a hack to make your D700 shoot 8fps without the grip:

    Mike
    D3 • D750 • 14-24mm f2.8 • 35mm f1.4A • PC-E 45mm f2.8 • 50mm f1.8G • AF-D 85mm f1.4 • ZF.2 100mm f2 • 200mm f2 VR2
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited March 2014
    . I had already purchased my ticket for the Bahrain Gran Prix Formula 1
    No, of course we are not jealous

    I would take the camera you are familiar with
    you know its limitations
    you instinctively know were all the buttons and dials are
    and you know what you did, and how to reset things, when it suddenly misbehaves


    I did not bring the battery grip with me
    3rd party ones are pretty cheap

    I have a tripod but doubt I would be able to set that up -
    monopod ?
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    Interesting, never knew about the hack, thanks.

    I admit FPS will matter but not sure how long I will need to sustain that high frame rate. The track is just over 3.3 miles long and from what I understand only 22 drivers. There might be a few laps, like the first one, where quite a few cars are bunched together but after few laps formula one cars usually are pretty spread through the field. It takes them on average of one minute and 40 seconds to complete a lap. I hope to have a decent view but only expect it to last 3-5 seconds max before the shot(s) would be gone (at 215 MPH they travel around 315 ft per second). If I have to use panning for all of it then I doubt I could get more that 5 shots off and get a break in between. Some of this is speculation until I see what I actually have to work with.

    I would agree to rent a D4 for this but unless I can get one mailed overseas by a company I trust within 3 days its probably not likely to happen. I looked briefly for rental companies here but since I have been here, I have had my CC number stolen once plus I didn't see Nikon being rented where I looked (getting your card stolen can happen in the good old USA as well but its much harder to get a replacement card here since my mailing address is not entirely true).
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    edited March 2014
    Yeah 3rd party grips are pretty cheap but have to order one, nobody here stocks a D700 grip anymore, wouldn't get here in time.

    I didn't bring a monopod, only my travel tripod. I could probably use it like a monopod but could be a bit awkward.

    I have a D7000 back in the US so figure its similar and I know its limitations. I just don't like shooting with it for prolonged periods of time, cramps my hand(s). For this instance I can/would put personal comfort aside so I can get the shot.

    As for the jealous part, I had to treat myself. I have been here over a year away from my family and friends. I missed last years race due to operational commitments but this year was free. I probably enjoy motor sports and automobiles as a hobby just a tad more than photography (though I enjoy that as well). If I was back in the US there is only one formula one race a year there. It would cost me more in gas money or a plane ticket just to get there. Then I have a hotel and the race ticket itself to purchase. The wife would want to come but knows she would be bored out of her mind. Over here she is happy I get to go and it gives me something to do on my off time. For my situation its kinda like a win win.

    This will be my first formula one race so not sure what to expect or might catch me off guard. I have tried to do my research and find photos online of the track, seats and pray that google earth is halfway correct for track elevation and distance from the stands. Hopefully the worst thing that will happen is I have a terrible view for shooting and just enjoy the race like everyone else.
    Post edited by scoobysmak on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited March 2014

    This will be my first formula one race so not sure what to expect .
    Hopefully, Lewis Hamilton will win :)

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,427Moderator
    YAY!
    Always learning.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    ... for all of it then I doubt I could get more that 5 shots off and get a break in between. Some of this is speculation until I see what I actually have to work with....
    The few times I took my camera to races you have about 2 seconds and can get off about 5 frames. I got many great shots, and that was with a film camera and 300mm kit zoom. They come around the track every 2 minutes or less so you will have ample opportunities to capture them.

    To be honest, I believe you are just over thinking it and forgetting what you really have in your hands - a 200-400 f4 VRI and the pro spec body (D3) from 6 years ago. You have more than enough to get many great shots. I would just make sure you have more than enough memory cards with you. From the way you speak about photography, it sounds like you would probably rather buy a better FX camera down the road. I would stop worrying about just "One" day, use it as an learning opportunity, and save your money for something down the road.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited April 2014
    Hopefully, Lewis Hamilton will win


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26914856

    :) :) :)
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    edited April 2014
    Just got back, yes he did, at this moment besides his team mate, nobody was really close.

    Everyone can thank me for the D9300, after shooting one night with the D700, I bit the bullet and got a D7100 and came home to find that. I do believe I got a few shots my D700 would have missed if I had to crop and push the ISO to the limit. I do feel the D700 focuses faster though, sometimes that was a bad thing. I would be trying to pan and it would focus on one of the thousands of light post in the line of site, needless to say the car would be blurred for the shot right after. The D7100 never picked up the light poles fast enough to "refocus". I probably should have started to adjust to using the AF button to auto focus instead of the shutter release button but not something I wanted screw up learning it, plus I barely had time to press the release button much less play AF on/off with my thumb.

    Not that I needed it but, for both cameras the buffer was full pretty much instantly (probably could have maybe 10 or so more shots if the buffer had not slowed me down). I went ahead and shot RAW so I could pull the most out of the pictures.
    Post edited by scoobysmak on
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,203Member
    Glad things worked out for you.

    Cool, please share your shots!
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,363Member
    edited April 2014

    Not that I needed it but, for both cameras the buffer was full pretty much instantly (probably could have maybe 10 or so more shots if the buffer had not slowed me down). I went ahead and shot RAW so I could pull the most out of the pictures.
    Considering your settings, that's almost a given. 1-2 seconds is all you'll get at 5/6FPS, since neither has the buffer of the D3s/D4/D4s.

    Card speed also has a lot to do with it. A few years ago I did some testing with the D700 with different cards and even the fastest cards only gave you can extra frame or two (I would get 25 14bit RAW frames before the camera would slow down). The real difference came down to how quickly the faster cards allowed the buffer to clear. An Sandisk Extreme III (30MB/S) would take 7 seconds to clear, a Lextar 400x (45MB/S) would take 5 seconds and a Sandisk Extreme (60MB/S) would take 3 seconds. A lot can happen in that time though!
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,427Moderator
    Agreed. Motorsport is one of the few times I would use jpg's instead of raw because the exposures are pre-settable and not difficult. The D7100 buffer is fine for jpg's even with only 45mb/s cards..
    Always learning.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,291Member
    Agreed. Motorsport is one of the few times I would use jpg's instead of raw because the exposures are pre-settable and not difficult. The D7100 buffer is fine for jpg's even with only 45mb/s cards..
    For BIF I use JPEG and a fast memory card. Have never filled the buffer shooting in Fine or Large.

    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    edited April 2014
    I was using 90MBs or 95MBs SanDisk Extreme cards, I still hit the buffer a few times but I couldn't just hold the shutter button and fire away.

    So I don't put junk in the photo a day thread but some might get a kick out of my "misfires" here goes nothing, this was one of the first cars in practice so my first time "tracking" the car from a distance to see what I could get.

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_001_zpsbf1c1f5a.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_002_zps57886827.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_003_zps9cd92909.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_004_zps8b0ae97a.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_005_zps67753b39.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_006_zpsd341974c.jpg

    photo BahrainF1first20140404_007_zps36dd2486.jpg

    The last shot might have turned out okay but I was panning and was not aware how fast these guys can slow down. Needless to say I expected him to reappear a bit sooner than he did behind the timing station. I would also say either distance is not the 200-400 strong suite or the track was still giving off heat "waves" so nothing from a distance when zoomed in looks in focus. I really believe it is the later of the two options. The track is all pavement, the sand colored and blue areas are just painted pavement.

    I also have to comment these are JPGs taken directly from the camera, needless to say I haven't updated Nikon View to accept the D7100 RAW files and so far all attempts to download it have failed. All I did was lower the pixel count and upload to photobucket.

    Post edited by scoobysmak on
  • ElvisheferElvishefer Posts: 329Member
    I especially like the fifth frame down... my kind of luck.
    D700, 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, 24-70mm f/2.8, 14-24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4G, 200mm f/4 Micro, 105mm f/2.8 VRII Micro, 35mm f/1.8, 2xSB900, 1xSB910, R1C1, RRS Support...

    ... And no time to use them.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,291Member
    Nice misfires. +1 on Elvishefer's comment.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
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