eBay Warning - Fraud

 DavidJaan DavidJaan Posts: 284Member
edited May 2014 in Nikon DSLR cameras
I placed an item on eBay (D800) and found myself in a fraudulent situation. A user from Australia purchased the camera, but once payment went through they emailed asking to send it to Indonesia. Obviously a red flag went off from that and the fact that the PayPal account was a different name than the eBay account. Also, I was contacted from an email with a third name on it.

So I immediately contacted eBay and was told to request a transaction cancellation. While waiting for the response I refunded the PayPal payment and 15 minutes later received a message from an eBay user asking why I was charging and refunding money from their PayPal account.

At this point I had figured it all out and through information from eBay I found out the buyer account was hacked as well as the PayPal account used.

This is certainly nothing new in the world of eBay dealings, but when it happens it makes it more real and quite scary. So be careful!

Comments

  • paulrpaulr Posts: 1,176Member
    Good job you were selling and not buying Ebay say they guarantee all sales but they don't say how long it will take. Always caution when using Ebay.
    Camera, Lens and Tripod and a few other Bits
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    What is in danger is ones paypal account, apparently the 'refund' was from the account of a non-participant in the transaction.

    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,337Member
    Yes, be careful on eBay. I tend to trade old gear in at my favourite camera shop, rather than using eBay. If it is an option local trade ins are much easier, and by the time you pay eBay and Paypal fees, the trade in works out to be about the same.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  •  DavidJaan DavidJaan Posts: 284Member
    @PB_BM That would be an option I'd love to explore, but unfortunately we have two local camera shops and neither are worth much of anything.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    I use Ebay Non-stop (bought 8 things in the last 24 hrs for instance) and this stuff is very rare but does exist - especially on big ticket items. Only the laziest, dumbest, and most think-headed people get completely hosed on Ebay. DavidJaan obviously did everything right, and Nothing bad happened. The scams are usually very obvious as DavidJaan experienced. That has been my experience since I started using it 15 years ago.

    Living in the US, I never sell to anyone outside of North America and never buy anything of real "value" from outside of NA either. Umbrellas, filters, and other cheap stuff I buy from sellers that have "stores" and are rated high. Big ticket items (over $500) I just do a bit of looking at the seller - how many items have they sold, what is their rating, pictures of the actual item, make sure they are not posting something about "contact me first" in the description. If something goes bad, Ebay/Paypal (Ebay owns Paypal) does a phenomenal job in protecting people from any real harm with transactions going either way. In many ways, they are better than most On-line stores and even credit cards.

    In 15 years of doing Craigs List and Ebay, I have had more issues with Craig's list than ebay. Dozens more. I have had my Paypal account snatched twice - once 15 years ago (when it was new and a very different system than it is now) and lost $10 out of $500 or so that was stolen. Again that was a very different company and system then. The second time was 6 years ago where someone got my info and cleaned my checking account out in less than 2 hours. 24hrs later, I had 80% of my money back, and within 3 days 100% of it back. Short term pain, but nothing horrible at all. I know dozens of people who had similar experiences. With Craig's list if someone scams you, all you can do is go to the police and at that point you will be SOL and never see your money. It is just not that important to them. On Ebay I have had people sell me bum lenses and with a bit of research saw they sold the lens multiple times with each listing lying that it worked. Sent the stuff to Ebay and they looked at the history, saw all the returns and I got my money back within 15 days.

    The only people who really get hosed are those who try to buck the system set up by Ebay/Paypal and try to go to the local police or just "yell" about it for days to family and friends instead of jumping through the hoops you are required to do so you get your money back. It is so simple it makes a local Retailer's return policy look like something from the Jurassic Period. Too much time passes and Paypal can no longer "Pull back" the funds then they are SOL. If you stay on top of it, act when you find it, you will get everything back.

    If you are worried about your bank account with PayPal you can get a Token ring/Token Card that gives you a randomized code (that is connected to your account) to put in when you log in to your account. No payment can be sent without this number or knowing 2 or 3 of your security questions (which are very random.) One piece of advice I got from a security expert once was to pick a normal security question like "City you were born in" and make the answer "Donald Duck" or your pet's name or something non-related to the question. The systems don't care what your answer is, just that you provide the same answer. If someone steals your info, they can easily find what city you were born in, but they will never guess you put Mickey Mouse as the answer.

    By far Ebay is the best system out there for used items, with the most protections, and where you can get the best deals, and most money for your items. As for local shops and the like, I almost always get 30-60% more selling my used photo gear on ebay than any camera shop in the US will pay or give me on trade. They have to make money too, so their mark-up is the "buyers price." If I can get full price, why not? On $1,000 lenses that's $300! That is "real value."
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,407Moderator
    Absolutely agreed 100%. Plus, the trade-in prices I've been offered here in the UK are just ridiculously low with brick and mortar OR on-line establishments (they aren't really interested unless they may a packet out of you). Ebay always beats them by a long way.

    Example: I just bought a flash that arrived yesterday. I sent the seller a nice note to say it arrived damaged because he didn't pack it well enough (carriers are arseholes) and by the evening, we had worked it out to our mutual satisfaction. If he hadn't co-operated, I would have opened a case with ebay and got my money back in a few days. Apart from the initial disappointment (which is the same even if you have to drive back to a shop or send something back to an on-line store, it's all good dealing with ebay.

    Your mileage may vary if you mis-describe stuff, pack it badly or get upity with people, but then if that is the case you prolly are a serial offender and find most things like that difficult.
    Always learning.
  • tcole1983tcole1983 Posts: 981Member
    Ebay worries me more as a seller than a buyer. PayPal seems to side with buyers (buyer protection), however I find the seller dashboard complicated and confusing. When I sold an item to someone in Canada I thought I had set it to US only. I think there are more ways to screw up selling than buying. Buying seems easy enough to weed out the bad. I usually always buy from top rated sellers.

    Amazon however to me is easy to sell. Takes no time to setup and everything goes through Amazon. But it will only work for certain products because unlike ebay you can't just sell anything and everything. But for camera gear unless obscure there should be a product page for it.
    D5200, D5000, S31, 18-55 VR, 17-55 F2.8, 35 F1.8G, 105 F2.8 VR, 300 F4 AF-S (Previously owned 18-200 VRI, Tokina 12-24 F4 II)
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    I am a great fan of ebay
    I was about to take my ancient mountain bike, in very poor condition, to the tip
    A friend told me it might be a classic and I should sell it on e bay
    it fetched over £200 :)
    I don't sell outside the UK but I do buy small items from china at a fraction of the UK price
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    The issue is not ebay, we should all monitor our paypal transactions carefully, as well as all accounts that allow online activity. The best protection is early discovery and action.

    Do not use accounts for paypal where you keep serious money.


    H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,203Member
    I use Ebay Non-stop (bought 8 things in the last 24 hrs for instance) and this stuff is very rare but does exist - especially on big ticket items.

    +1TTj
    Been an eBay buyer and seller since 1998. Both eBay and PayPal are there to protect sellers and buyers. Have sold over 12 cameras and 15 lens and bought two lens. Never had an issue. It's safe if you follow the rules and don't respond to those fake email's from PayPal. For example, any email sent to you from PayPal or eBay will use your first name and not your "Dear john.doe@yahoo.com". That is the first sign of fraud.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • HipShotHipShot Posts: 510Member
    I've bought and sold locally on craigslist without any problem. Sold a D40, bought nice lenses. As long as it's local, seems to work out OK. Been waiting patiently for a nice D3S. Still waiting.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    edited May 2014
    Comment on eBay…. any anonymous selling venue will attract those who are less than honorable. One potential scam is asking for the item for sale to be shipped to a foreign country after having sent a cashier's check to the seller, The buyer suggests subtracting the shipping from the check which is usually about 150% of the selling price, then refunding the unused protein by a return moony order or cashier's check.

    The scam is, the original cashier's check will be cashed by your bank, then two to three weeks later hit comes back as a forged instrument. You are then out the object for sale, plus what you may have sent as the "over payment".

    Always look up phone numbers on a website of a bank and then call to confirm the check. Do not call the phone number on the check…. it is usually a cell phone and will be answered as the bank and the check "approved". Oh well….

    This scam is used for any market place where one may not meet the buyer directly….
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • mikepmikep Posts: 280Member
    i have used ebay many times, and has largely great experiences. never had any issues. just pay via paypal keep a paper trail to prove your movements and you should be covered. ive happily sold things up the value of 7000 dollars with no trouble (before they changed it to 10% fees mind you, there is no way i would give ebay 700 dollars!! on yer bike ebay)
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    I do not believe Cashier's Checks or money orders (and the like) is allowed anymore with Ebay/Paypal.

    Shipping to different addresses is pretty much the old "scam game" in town. I have heard of some very complex ones, but those are done by organized crime, and there is almost zero indicators in that. It also deals with money laundering where they are both the seller and buyer so nothing to worry about.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    Thanks for the update, TTJ
    Msmoto, mod
  • ThomasHortonThomasHorton Posts: 323Member
    One piece of advice I got from a security expert once was to pick a normal security question like "City you were born in" and make the answer "Donald Duck" or your pet's name or something non-related to the question. The systems don't care what your answer is, just that you provide the same answer. If someone steals your info, they can easily find what city you were born in, but they will never guess you put Mickey Mouse as the answer.
    This is very good advice and needed to repeated.

    Of course the key is not to forget you did not answer the questions. The whole purpose of using these questions is that it will help jog your memory and all you have to do is "tell the truth". It can be quite embarrasing when you forgot you changed the answers and actually answer the questions truthfully.... not that that would ever happen to me. It happened to a friend of mine. :)
    Gear: Camera obscura with an optical device which transmits and refracts light.
  • michael66michael66 Posts: 231Member
    edited May 2014


    This is very good advice and needed to repeated.

    Of course the key is not to forget you did not answer the questions. The whole purpose of using these questions is that it will help jog your memory and all you have to do is "tell the truth". It can be quite embarrasing when you forgot you changed the answers and actually answer the questions truthfully.... not that that would ever happen to me. It happened to a friend of mine. :)
    Just write the questions and answers down on a piece of yellow sticky pad paper and stick to the side of your monitor. :-B
    Post edited by michael66 on
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,337Member

    Just write the questions and answers down on a piece of yellow sticky pad paper and stick to the side of your monitor. :-B
    Which defeats the entire point behind having the questions in the first place... :))
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • michael66michael66 Posts: 231Member

    Just write the questions and answers down on a piece of yellow sticky pad paper and stick to the side of your monitor. :-B
    Which defeats the entire point behind having the questions in the first place... :))
    Unfortunately, there are no sarcasm tags... :D
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