Heads up for Aperture users ...

dissentdissent Posts: 1,265Member
edited June 2014 in General Discussions
- Ian . . . [D7000, D7100; Nikon glass: 35 f1.8, 85 f1.8, 70-300 VR, 105 f2.8 VR, 12-24 f4; 16-85 VR, 300 f4D, 14E-II TC, SB-400, SB-700 . . . and still plenty of ignorance]
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  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    I switched from Aperture to Lightroom last year, but partly held hope that Apple would release a revamped Aperture since I'm not 100% happy with Lightroom.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Believe it or not: Aperture became the main reason I stuck with Apple. And this decision is the last proof to me, they are these days nothing more than another greedy, visionless bunch of stupid blokes like any other IT related company. My next PC will be an ordinary, grey, unsexy and cheap Windows machine. It's pointless to pay their mad prices anymore. At the moment I hate those suckers in Cupertino and feel sorry for them at the same time. How sad it must be to work in a place which once was the motor of computer innovations and beyond, was really influencing a lot of people's life.

    And now? image Next boring iPhone, next lame iMac, next overpriced laptop, chewing Steve's ideas to death until the last bit of taste disappeared into a huge desert of absent phantasy and spirit. The countdown towards "meaningless company" started when Mr. Jobs passed away and I'm convinced today, they have nobody to turn the wheel into an interesting perspective.

    Very sad. Goodbye, Apple image
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    edited June 2014
    Never liked Aperture when I tried it. Seems like from the downgrade of video editing tools and now this they are more focused with iphone photographers oh and Ipad photographers too. Disclaimer i have iphone, ipad and macbook pro.
    They really seemed to kill the macbook pro with the retina version with everything integraded like the memory and ssd. Otherwise zero issues with the OS and thats what I like about my mac. Time to build a h acking tosh or not
    Post edited by Vipmediastar_JZ on
  • turnthedarncranksturnthedarncranks Posts: 116Member
    I am cautiously hopeful that the new Photos app will be "good enough" for folks who, like me, do a bit more editing than most consumers, but do nowhere near as much editing as many of the folks who frequent this site. On the other hand, Aperture seems to be choking on the size of my library lately, so I am concerned Photos will do so too. I may need to find a non-Apple, non-Lightroom library option as I am not willing to pay a monthly fee for the privilege of having my photos organized. So maybe it's going to be Pixelmator for more complicated edits and ?????? for my library . . .
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    A sad day indeed. I will hold onto to Aperture and use it until I no longer can. I'm pissed at Apple, but really don't like Adobe.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    So am I. Pity for the coolest DAM I tried in 7 years.
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    This is such a bummer. But the good news is that at least I'll be able to take photos with my iPhone and add cool filters to them before I upload jpgs to the Cloud or post them on Insta-whatever. :(

    Let's face it gents, we're fast becoming a niche market.
  • DenverShooterDenverShooter Posts: 340Member
    I refuse to "rent" an application from the crooks at Adobe....

    Denver Shooter
  • dissentdissent Posts: 1,265Member
    I refuse to "rent" an application from the crooks at Adobe....

    Denver Shooter
    But ... you underestimate the power of the dark side ... [..]
    - Ian . . . [D7000, D7100; Nikon glass: 35 f1.8, 85 f1.8, 70-300 VR, 105 f2.8 VR, 12-24 f4; 16-85 VR, 300 f4D, 14E-II TC, SB-400, SB-700 . . . and still plenty of ignorance]
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    I think I panicked too early:

    http://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/software-for-nikon-dslrs/software-news/another-one-bites-the-dust.html

    Apparently iPhoto and Aperture go in a new app, but after enlarging the screenshot I recognized all controls of AA. If they (=greedy blokes) don't force me to use a Cloud and make that app for free in OS-X Yosemite, that could be a reason to remain Apple user.

    Especially, because there are to me no alternatives on Windows, only second or third best stuff. And if I call the Apple guys "greedy blokes", it goes without saying Adobe to be supergreedy superblokes for me. :D
  • henrik1963henrik1963 Posts: 559Member
    edited June 2014
    I am a Aperture user. I would have liked Apple to continue with Aperture. But I think I see what they are trying to do: Every time there is one Aperture user there is 1000 people who just want to manage their pictures and perhaps do minor changes. Most people will get lost in Aperture.

    I think most people will gain a lot from having Cloud integration with their photo app and being able to reach their photos from their phone, iPad or mac.

    I will just have to wait and see if the new app will be powerful enough for me. If not LR might be on my computer in the future.
    Post edited by henrik1963 on
  • tganiatstganiats Posts: 131Member
    Yes...Tried Lightroom (a few times) and never liked it. Tried Aperture once and have stuck with it since. (many years). I have (blind) faith that the new product will be good...okay, not faith, intense hope...but what about plug-ins? I use plug-ins a lot, and this is a concern. How long will it take for plug-ins to become available, if ever?

    I agree, Aperture will continue to work. But it is getting a bit long in the tooth. I, like many, hoped for an upgrade soon.

    Fingers crossed this isn't Apple thumbing its nose at an important group. (us!)
  • FritzFritz Posts: 140Member
    I use Aperture with DXO as a plug-in. Don't know how well DXO will work as a file manager. What alternatives are out there other than Lightroom and Photoshop?
  • JK1231JK1231 Posts: 24Member
    I, too, about panicked when I read the Apple announcement. However, having read more -- and especially Thom Hogan's observations JJ_SO referenced earlier -- I now feel a lot better about Photos. I guess we will have to wait for a Beta release of OS 10^3 with Photos to find out if we're justified in relaxing.

    Another tidbit that added to my confidence that things may be good is this: In an interview with Ars, Apple seems to indicate that there will be pro-grade features in Photos, "When asked about what Aperture-like features users can expect from the new Photos app, an Apple representative mentioned plans for professional-grade features such as image search, editing, effects, and most notably, third-party extensibility."

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/06/apple-to-cease-development-support-of-pro-photo-app-aperture/

    I also had a couple email exchanges with Thom Hogan regarding another Apple quote, "[Apple is] working with Adobe to work on a transitionary workflow for users moving to Lightroom," and he quite correctly points out (quoting Thom), "[T]hat statement is carefully worded. 'For users moving to Lightroom' is different than 'to move users to Lightroom'."

    So, I really see hope that Photos will be all that Aperture is, with an added "iPhoto-like" interface that most people will use, but still have the Aperture features available in an "advanced" interface. As others have pointed out, the iClod [no typo :-)] is my biggest issue, and I really hope that its use is not mandatory.

    JK
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    What Apple has created with this announcement is uncertainty. They're saying Aperture is a dead-end product but its replacement won't be available for another 6+ months, and will probably be missing some key features.

    That's not going to sit very well with many Aperture users who make their living from photography. It's almost like they want pro users to jump to Lightroom or to another competing product.

    Maybe they want to avoid a situation where a lot of pros end up criticizing the new Photos app at launch, similar to what happened with the FCP X launch. So perhaps Apple is reducing expectations.

    Here's my take:

    - I believe the needs of "casual" users is fundamentally different from the needs of "pros" (**)
    - An app that tries to cater to both groups at the same time will be sub-par for both
    - The new Photos app will focus on "casual" users, with simplified functionality
    - The majority of serious hobbyists have needs more like "casual" users, not like "pros"

    (**) pros in this specific context means those who need to deal with a large volumes of commercial photography, e.g., wedding photographers, pro sports photographers, fashion photographers, photojournalists, etc.

    Accordingly, here are some things which the new Photos app might leave out:

    - The ability to directly work with bulk metadata, e.g., IPTC captioning, metadata import/export, etc.

    - Extensive file handling options, e.g., ability to define custom presets, templating, automatic copy & rename, watermarks, etc.

    - Very fine-grained control over brushes, filters, effects, RAW conversion parameters, etc.

    - Comprehensive rating, filtering, keywording and searching functionality scalable to hundreds of thousands of images (** I'm hoping this feature will make it to Photos)

    - Ability to work with multiple active libraries, merge and split catalogs, multiple backup vaults, etc.

    - Tools to work with referenced files (e.g., preview offline files, reconnect files, etc.)

    - Comprehensive support for tethered shooting.

    - Ability to create professional-level custom photo books, albums, slideshows, etc.

    - Ability to work with similars (stacking), versioning of images, etc.

    - Support for professional printing and color management, including soft-proofing, color-space comparisons & manipulations, etc.

    - Ability to customize multi-screen views, keyboard shortcuts, etc.

    If you regularly use many of the above features, then maybe a switch to Lightroom or another pro-oriented application is a good idea.

    Otherwise, maybe the new Photos app will be good enough, especially after a couple iterations of bug fixes.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    @Ade, I agree on some points:

    Reliability and certainty: Apple is acting like a startup. Not telling what will be the next step and what Aperture users can expect, is a bit stupid.

    Until Photos will work out, the last Aperture users standing will get their RAW-updates, but no more version - that's what I expect.

    Points I thin I disagree:

    Metadata and Library are still visible in the screenshot. If I use on my museum version 3.2.4 the full screen mode, the Information panel looks very much alike that in the screenshot, some minor layout differences I take as evolutionary.

    Professionals and Aperture? Please, raise your hands, professionals: who is seriously using AA for the job and is making money with it? The pro's I know were always complaining about the closed catalogue structure and I think they just don't know better. A different story, though, is getting the edit parameters out of the lib. but even that can be done by my old version and will remain possible.

    But managing tenthousands of pictures? I admit, I use various libs, but always the originals are available on the same drive. I've no expericence in handling multiple external dismounted drives. What I can say in direct comparison with Capture One: at about 6 times more pictures in the main AA lib, AA still is about 3-4 times faster from start to ready to edit the first pic than Capture One without Media Pro became. If the picture counts of C1 is reliable and in my experience, it's not.

    C1 is only for the files my old AA version/OS version is no longer able to open. (And please people, keep your comments like "update and everything is fine", because of various reasons, it's not). So, getting a D810 will inevitably lead to a new NEF version - very much like the change from D7000 to D7100.

    The character of the colours, rendering, handling noise of AA and C1 are very far away from each other. I would not use pictures of those tow models in the same book.

    Going away from AA is giving up the look of the pictures like they are today. I don't want that. I don't want big fat Adobe apps on my machine, I'm not going into cloud and I'm not renting software which is essential to handle my pictures - they could blackmail me any time.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    @JJ_SO

    What screenshot are you referring to?
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    edited June 2014
    To one I've seen on an earlier post in another forum to the same subject. Thought, it was already know, as I am usually one of the later readers. Here we go: http://petapixel.com/2014/06/27/breaking-apple-officially-kills-aperture/#more-138870

    Enlarge the browser view. It looks pretty much the same Aperture is looking today.
    Post edited by JJ_SO on
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    @JJ_SO

    Unfortunately, that's a screenshot of Aperture, not of the new Photos app.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Ouch image

    Haven't seen that screenshot as one of Aperture.

    Right. Back in panic mode then. image
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    Well, for all we know the new app still has those features.

    Below is an official Apple picture of the new app (click and zoom-in for full size). You can see the new "flat" design, which is quite different from Aperture's traditional look. E.g., all the sliders are flat with no 3D modeling, shadows, etc. I think it looks pretty good, all the basic adjustments are there. But at the same time the design suggest an iPhoto paradigm rather than an Aperture one.
    image
    (Full size)
  • henrik1963henrik1963 Posts: 559Member
    Reducing the number of features in Photos may be OK. I am more worried about the "power" of the features that remain. Pictures done in iPhoto does not look as good as pictures done in Aperture. I have the feeling that Aperture is lagging behind LR.

    I hope for a powerful App that is simple to use. I am not giving up hope just yet.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    Perhaps this is a sign from God you should switch over to the new capture NX-D. Gotta love the price...
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    It looks a little "lightweight" for my tastes. Where's the curves tool? Can I tweak individual colors with the levels tool? And more importantly, will it be compatible with the Nik plug-ins, which really complement the current application? What we don't know is what's behind the "Add" button? More adjustment tools? To me, this looks a lot like a reskinned version of iPhoto with a few basic Aperture features flowed in. I'll stay with Aperture as long as I can, which will probably be when I buy a new camera that doesn't get RAW support. Have already mentally started preparing for the big leap to Lightroom. Has anyone ever gone from Aperture to Lightroom? How painful is the process? And what becomes of the files in your Aperture files and the non-destructive edits you've done?
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Well, for all we know the new app still has those features.

    Below is an official Apple picture of the new app (click and zoom-in for full size). ...
    @Ade, you're really a great source of information, thanks a lot. Pity with this new app will be, one needs to install it, transport an old lib into it and then play along. With CaptureOne, I can just exchange the new app against the old one if it's running in a way I don't like.

    This makes the going back (from iTunes 11 to 10 for instance) a bit complicate.

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