Zeiss Otus Apo-Planar 85/1.4

2»

Comments

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    Good point PitchBlack.
  • Those professionals working in a venue that allows them to control the environment, (i.e. studio) will find this new Otus very, very appealing.
    Nope. The studio situation is not like you put a model somewhere, your camera on a tripod and then shoot a frozen scene. If you shoot hand-held (which is the majority of the cases), you need AF just as much. LiveView is really just working for things like architecture, still-life (i.e. product photography) etc., not for people.

    The "controlled" part in a studio is the light setup, mainly.
    You can easily diminish detail in post using a frequency split, and get amazing results. You can't create detail.
    Exactly. I find the argument of using a soft lens in order to create more "pleasing" results very strange. Why not just but a blur filter over the whole image? The whole point is to get in the most detail in first, and then be able to selectively "get rid of it" where you want, but not lower the quality of the primary image.
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    Or a softbox with proper lighting technique?

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    "The whole point is to get in the most detail in [sic] first, and then be able to selectively "get rid of it" where you want, but not lower the quality of the primary image." True, I just find the 85mm f1.8 (and I am sure the 85mm f1.4) already "gets in" enough detail in portraits, especially if you shoot it at f5.6 or f8. Don't think most of the older folks I photograph would appreciate any more detail beyond seeing each individual hair as my current lens produces. Now if we were comparing lenses shot wide open (which I rarely do) it may be that the increased detail captured by the 85mm Otus would be desirable. But then you are going to have the problem of trying to manually focus on a living (moving?) subject at f1.4.

    The 85 Otus puts you on the "horns of a dilemma." 1. If you are not shooting at f1.4 your existing 85mm Nikon lenses already have enough detail for portraits as can be seen by the DxOMark ratings. 2. If you are shooting at f1.4 the MF aspect of the 85mm Otus creates an unneeded problem for you. I was glad to see Matt Granger did not have any problem with MF.

    I sure would like to have one to play with but could never justify that cost for such a "niche lens" and I would surely want to mate it to the very latest high mp Nikon body (810 or new 50mp sensor in a D4x?) to extract the most detail possible. When Sigma produces their 85mm f1.4 Art lens it may be the best compromise for all of us "normal" human beings.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator

    Nope. The studio situation is not like you put a model somewhere, your camera on a tripod and then shoot a frozen scene. If you shoot hand-held (which is the majority of the cases), you need AF just as much. LiveView is really just working for things like architecture, still-life (i.e. product photography) etc., not for people.
    The studio was an example...many things go into account in relation to a "control environments." Moreover, depending on what the subject is doing, distance to it, and f-stop being shot at, I'm willing to argue that 70-80% of professional photographer that shoot with manual lenses of this caliber will have not problem getting the image they are after.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • Bokeh_HunterBokeh_Hunter Posts: 234Member
    edited September 2014
    I am just blown away with what Zeiss creates with the Otus lenses. I would love to have each and every Otus lens they release, but I don't have that kind of idle cash that can just sit in a couple of lenses. Amazing though.

    Two things I will point out - 1) These are "studio" lenses. I'm in the same boat as others, most of the time I need AF BUT a dedicated studio lens would be in my realm.... 2) I know there are not to many on this forum that use a lot of lighting but when using stuff other than speed lights, rarely do you work "wide open." With strobe (studio) lighting, to hold the exposure down with good size lights indoors you are at F/8+. That is a draw back many times using strobes - set the light to it's lowest, and you are still at f/8. At F/8, you have room to miss the exact focus point. Not many will be shooting these lenses below f/4 in work situations due to the lights. I am sure they will post every image they get wide open though.
    Post edited by Bokeh_Hunter on
    •Formerly TTJ•
  • Bokeh_HunterBokeh_Hunter Posts: 234Member
    If you are adding ND filters (even the $300 ones) you will loose detail that is gained by the lens which just makes another argument to stick with the N85 1.4g.

    Not everyone shoots (or wants too) models. There are many more types of work than what you do.
    •Formerly TTJ•
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited September 2014
    DxOmark best performance test of 85mm on Nikon (tested on D800e):

    Screen Shot 2014-09-10 at 2.39.44 PM

    Screen Shot 2014-09-10 at 2.33.26 PM

    DxOmark best lens on Nikon (D800e):

    Screen Shot 2014-09-10 at 2.33.55 PM

    Given the results, I'm quite happy with my 85mm lens...not to mention my wallet.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    edited September 2014
    Yes, studio strobes do tend to blast with too much power to shoot at f1.4 (my lowest setting is about f4) but LED or CFL constant lighting is increasingly becoming an option. It is easier on the eyes of the subjects also. I could see using f1.4 with constant lighting in studio set-ups and using MF for a still model. As soon as I have all my debts paid and enough money saved to live past 100 with no worries I will get one of each Otus they produce and enjoy them. Until then, I will be saving up for Sigma Art lenses.

    PitchBlack: I do love your wide open look and admire your ability to achieve it. When I have a chance to shoot the right type of subjects it is on my list to try.
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    edited September 2014
    The Otus 55 performs at 50 mp resolution and the new 85 checks in at 49 mp of resolution! Far outperforming the actual D800 sensor according to DXO. Amazing, but then again the Nikkors clock in at 40 mp as well:

    http://nikonrumors.com/2014/09/10/confirmed-zeiss-otus-85mm-f1-4-is-the-best-performing-lens-ever-tested-by-dxomark.aspx/#more-80116

    oops I see you beat me to the punch Golf...
    Post edited by kanuck on
  • SquamishPhotoSquamishPhoto Posts: 608Member

    2) I know there are not to many on this forum that use a lot of lighting but when using stuff other than speed lights, rarely do you work "wide open." With strobe (studio) lighting, to hold the exposure down with good size lights indoors you are at F/8+. That is a draw back many times using strobes - set the light to it's lowest, and you are still at f/8. At F/8, you have room to miss the exact focus point. Not many will be shooting these lenses below f/4 in work situations due to the lights. I am sure they will post every image they get wide open though.
    Im not sure where you learned how to work in a studio, but lights don't inherently force you to stop down. You don't even have to use a filter, you can use tricks like edge lighting, scrims, added fabric inside a diffuser, simply walking the strobe back etc and then shooting wide open or close to it is actually quite simple. And this idea that "work situations" will force people to stop down to f4 is kinda ridiculous, I really don't know what basket you pull this nonsense from.

    The shot below was shot at f2.5 with edge lighting on two 400w strobes, neither at minimum power either. Don't get me wrong, I shoot a lot of studio stuff at f5.6-f12, but I've never felt like I couldn't or shouldn't go wide open. Its really worth noting that the new Otus is optimized for shooting wide open and is testing its best score at f1.4, much like other gems like the Sigma 35mm and 50mm do.

    image
    Mike
    D3 • D750 • 14-24mm f2.8 • 35mm f1.4A • PC-E 45mm f2.8 • 50mm f1.8G • AF-D 85mm f1.4 • ZF.2 100mm f2 • 200mm f2 VR2
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    Probably not relevant to this thread but the Fujinon XF 56mm f/1.2 R APD (85 equivalant) is supposed to have super bokeh
  • henrik1963henrik1963 Posts: 561Member
    Maybe Nikon will come out with a mirror less D8xx. That would make it possible to use MF lenses - if the camera is done right. Till then the MF lenses is of little use to me.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    edited September 2014
    The Otus 55 performs at 50 mp resolution and the new 85 checks in at 49 mp of resolution! Far outperforming the actual D800 sensor according to DXO. Amazing, but then again the Nikkors clock in at 40 mp as well:

    http://nikonrumors.com/2014/09/10/confirmed-zeiss-otus-85mm-f1-4-is-the-best-performing-lens-ever-tested-by-dxomark.aspx/#more-80116

    oops I see you beat me to the punch Golf...
    The DXOmark score is not MP. its just a score. which includes Vignetting and CA etc ...
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • SquamishPhotoSquamishPhoto Posts: 608Member
    edited September 2014
    "The focus is on the cheek"


    .....


    And thanks for the compliment, PitchBlack. :)
    Post edited by SquamishPhoto on
    Mike
    D3 • D750 • 14-24mm f2.8 • 35mm f1.4A • PC-E 45mm f2.8 • 50mm f1.8G • AF-D 85mm f1.4 • ZF.2 100mm f2 • 200mm f2 VR2
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    edited September 2014
    That Otus on the Nikon D800e is fantastic!
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    "The focus is on the cheek"


    .....
    Agreed! ...
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    The Otus 55 performs at 50 mp resolution and the new 85 checks in at 49 mp of resolution! Far outperforming the actual D800 sensor according to DXO. Amazing, but then again the Nikkors clock in at 40 mp as well.
    The DXOmark score is not MP. its just a score. which includes Vignetting and CA etc ...
    Actually you are right in terms of the overall score, but I meant to refer to just the sharpness category which does refer to the mp only. So in the case of this 85mm Otus you get 35mp while the 85mm Nikkor 1.8 is 27mp and the 1.4 is 30mp.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    edited September 2014
    The Otus 55 performs at 50 mp resolution and the new 85 checks in at 49 mp of resolution! Far outperforming the actual D800 sensor according to DXO. Amazing, but then again the Nikkors clock in at 40 mp as well.
    The DXOmark score is not MP. its just a score. which includes Vignetting and CA etc ...
    Actually you are right in terms of the overall score, but I meant to refer to just the sharpness category which does refer to the mp only. So in the case of this 85mm Otus you get 35mp while the 85mm Nikkor 1.8 is 27mp and the 1.4 is 30mp.

    ?? sorry .. i am not understanding the point/issue you are trying to raise please clarify.

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    Studio shots with powerful strobes….simple cheese cloth or any white diffusing material can drop light levels dramatically. Years ago we hung cloth on long arms to soften and decrease the light. Used lots of cardboard on stands to further modify the light. I have never used an ND filter for this purpose, but my experience is from years ago.

    And, all the equipment was manual focus on a beautiful GG screen….

    So, this new 85mm from Zeiss is causing some salivation from me…. until Sigma comes out with their Art 85mm f/1.4….
    Msmoto, mod
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    @Msmoto - more to salivate..I just saw that Sigma is working on a new 24-70mm lens. Just image if that was an Art lens. See main blog for other announcements from Cologne.

    Oh I enjoyed your upload to Pad of your new "can" trailer. Did you turn on the running lights on the trailer to illuminate the lights? Did not know you could do that without being connected to the towing vehicle.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    I think @Msmoto has a trick for turning lights on post...
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    Not really a "trick" but simply using the brush in LR 5.6 creatively…. I may start a new thread and explain this.
    Msmoto, mod
Sign In or Register to comment.