Paralysis by analysis

dkookymonsterdkookymonster Posts: 16Member
edited October 2014 in Nikon Lenses
Hi all - my first post here after searching the forum, would really appreciate your perspectives. Have you ever just gotten to the point you are 'paralyzed' pulling the trigger on buying lenses and/or bodies? Reading all the blogs out there, and lots of postings in this forum, for a newbie like me there appears to be a generalized "what the hell is Nikon doing" with X body..or X lens line.

One side of me is questioning investing further in Nikon...(as a digital newbie); the other is, 'just get on with it!'. Paralysis by analysis...if that makes sense?

My effective budget is $5K. My interests may still be a little too broad, but my passion is outdoors, wildlife - particularly Whitetail Deer and Turkey - just about all things nature and landscape. Hell, I love shooting old barns as well.

But for wildlife, especially deer, those guys are almost always low/lower light...and you just never know how close you can get; could be a filled frame with 80mm, could be they are out to 400mm and beyond.

If you had to start over, were going to spend $5K and try to keep your kit somewhat versatile, but emphasize big game like deer, reasonable low light capability...how would you spend it?

Sorry for the ramble, hope that's at least a somewhat coherent question in there somewhere. :)

Thanks all -
Dave

D7000 | Tokina 11-16 | Nikon AF-S 35mm 1.8 DX | Nikon AF-S 85mm 1.8 | Nikon AF 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 70-300 AF
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Comments

  • ThomasHortonThomasHorton Posts: 323Member
    Oh yeah. When I was upgrading my system, I spent about 6 months where every day I went through reviews and such. Crikey!

    I guess we have to make up our mind what we are looking at

    1. Photographs
    2. Pixels

    I often lost my focus (pun intended)

    If you are in the position to change systems, like I was, my advice is to not rush this decision. Look at what every manufacturer offers. There is more to photography than CaNikon. I am still not convinced I should not have gotten the Pentax K3. That is a sweet system.

    But every photographer is different. I would pay less attention to what "experts" or "pros" use and really identify what YOU need for YOUR individual type of photography.

    You don't want to buy the best camera system out there... you want to buy the camera system that is best for you.

    Good luck with it.

    Who am I kidding, just get a cell phone. LoL
    Gear: Camera obscura with an optical device which transmits and refracts light.
  • dkookymonsterdkookymonster Posts: 16Member
    Thanks Thomas -
    D7000 | Tokina 11-16 | Nikon AF-S 35mm 1.8 DX | Nikon AF-S 85mm 1.8 | Nikon AF 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 70-300 AF
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited October 2014
    Dave, welcome and I have a solution for you. $5K will get you some really nice gear and I truly believe it will deliver on the type of photography you are after.

    1) D750 body only.
    2) The new Nikon 80-400G
    3) SB-700 & FX3 Better Beamer Flash Extender (This will help get light on your subject)
    4) Have a nice tripod -- specially for those barn shots. Read this topic here for ideas on it.
    5) Landscape: The new Nikon 20 1.8G. To read about this lens go here.

    Lastly, take all of our comments/conversation with a grain of salt. Don't let it discourage you in not "pulling the trigger. It is all good, healthy perspectives for you to take in...it is not intended to make you sick.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    You don't want to buy the best camera system out there... you want to buy the camera system that is best for you.

    +1 to often members forget this point. Excellent advise.

    ThomasHorton said: Who am I kidding, just get a cell phone. LoL

    Very very funny.

    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited October 2014
    I am afraid posting here will make your Paralysis worst
    But I agree with Golf007sd
    new D750 , new 80 -400 G and new 20 f 1.8
    the above will give first class results
    and no one is suggesting any of the above is about to superseded
    ( I don't think you find any of them S/H )

    At some stage you might add a mid range zoom, there is quite a choice and no will agree on which is best
    just remember Nikon doesn't make any current bad lenses or cameras


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    +1 @Golf007sd and @sevencrossing
    Golf is right when he said don't beat yourself up taking the time to make a good decision.

    And of course here is my input:
    The "NEW" 80-400 is an excellent lens. An alternative is the Tamron 150-600mm lens introduced earlier this year.
    Use the remaining funds after the D750 & 80-400 to buy filters and a RRS "L" bracket to attach to your tripod.

    For the future, save money to purchase:
    ++24-70mm F2.8 lens or the 24-120mm F4
    ++85mm 1.8 prime
    ++A wider wide angle lens such as a 20 1.8 or 16-35 or 14-24 F2.8.

    If your an engineer, you do have to be careful about Paralysis by analysis. :D =))
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • dissentdissent Posts: 1,341Member
    I can relate. I finally just decided that I wasn't getting any photography done by reading reviews and looking at other folks opinions, so I went down to my local Wolf Camera (long gone now) with my budget in hand and said - OK, show me what ya got. I held the Canon and the Nikon in my hands and the Nikon (D5100 at the time) just felt a little better in my hands, so Nikon won. Been struggling up the learning curve(s!) since then, but it's been great fun, and I think I've managed to get a few snaps that made me happy.

    My kit is all DX, so I can't speak from experience, but it sounds to me as well that for your budget the kit Golf and others have recommended sounds like a good fit..

    Get something and get out shooting! There's lots more to learn once you get the gear in your hands.
    - Ian . . . [D7000, D7100; Nikon glass: 35 f1.8, 85 f1.8, 70-300 VR, 105 f2.8 VR, 12-24 f4; 16-85 VR, 300 f4D, 14E-II TC, SB-400, SB-700 . . . and still plenty of ignorance]
  • dkookymonsterdkookymonster Posts: 16Member
    edited October 2014
    Wow, thank you all very much for your insights, most decidedly helpful! It's interesting; I had the D750 and 80-400 as front-runners to start with, in fact tried to rent the 80-400 (new) this week but will have to wait until next. The only concern I had with that lens was the 5.6 aperture - part of my paralysis there. I would see for deer at dawn/dusk the need for a big ISO bump ....which lead me to the D750 (my D7K high ISO ain't all that and a bag of chips).

    It really does come down to price of the lens vs. light you can grab dunnit?

    I guess my thinking was somewhat valid..I feel like I was just paroled. ;)

    Thanks,
    Dave

    Post edited by dkookymonster on
    D7000 | Tokina 11-16 | Nikon AF-S 35mm 1.8 DX | Nikon AF-S 85mm 1.8 | Nikon AF 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 70-300 AF
  • tcole1983tcole1983 Posts: 981Member
    edited October 2014
    D7100, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 300 f4

    Or 17-55 f2.8, 80-400, 105 f2.8

    The 300 f4 is the longest least expensive and fastest at 300 mm the 300 f2.8 is the only faster and it runs ~$6000
    Post edited by tcole1983 on
    D5200, D5000, S31, 18-55 VR, 17-55 F2.8, 35 F1.8G, 105 F2.8 VR, 300 F4 AF-S (Previously owned 18-200 VRI, Tokina 12-24 F4 II)
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited October 2014
    . would see for deer at dawn/dusk ...

    Dawn one year ago
    uncropped D800 80- 400 @400mm f5.6 1/1600 ISo 2000
    the vr on this lens is fantastic. if the weather improves in the next few weeks, i hope to shoot the rutting season again this year. I would use a lower shutter speed and lower ISO

    image
    cropped

    image

    (

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • Bokeh_HunterBokeh_Hunter Posts: 234Member
    Hi all - my first post here after searching the forum, would really appreciate your perspectives. Have you ever just gotten to the point you are 'paralyzed' pulling the trigger on buying lenses and/or bodies? Reading all the blogs out there, and lots of postings in this forum, for a newbie like me there appears to be a generalized "what the hell is Nikon doing" with X body..or X lens line.
    I'm going to focus on this: "newbie like me "
    By "Newbie" what do you mean? How much do you already know about photography? Why are you budgeting $5,000? How often are you going to use it? What do you expect to get from your $5,000? How many large prints are you going to make a year?

    If you are just starting out, that is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on something you know little about. If you are new, realistically it will take you a good 3 years, if you shoot every week, before you know enough to take advantage of any consumer DSLR. You will get a few good images, and fewer great ones - just because you are learning. It will also take that amount of time before you know what type of lenses you want to invest in. Just as many landscape photos are taken with telephotos as they are with wide angle lenses. Maybe macro is your thing, maybe not. Maybe you shoot only wildlife, or maybe you find you don't. Point is, if you are starting out, the camera nor the gear really matters.

    I tell everyone there are two ways to think about beginning out. 1) Go cheap, learn, and then when you are much better, then spend your money on what you really need, rather than guessing. Get a basic consumer camera (D5300, 7100) and a super zoom (18-300) and shoot with that and see what focal lengths you use most. Then decide what you NEED to spend money on. Guessing is just a fool's errand.

    OR

    2) Spend a wad of dollars and buy everything in a system.
    Your budget won't allow you to do that with Nikon. If you are really into wildlife, and just starting out, I would suggest taking a serious look at Olympus EM-1. It is not quite at the DSLR AF or noise, but you are starting out, and it really won't matter. It is a very good system with that said though. The key there is the multiplier is 2x the focal length. So a 300mm becomes 600mm. If you had a DX or FX system, you will have to crop 25-50% of the pixels before you can have that equivalent focal length. If you saw on the main PhotoRumors page, the M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO lens is coming and that is only $1,400. That is very cheap for a 300mm 2.8. They even have a 75-300 (150-600 FX equiv) for $500. There is no way you can get that type of zoom with Nikon or Canon. With $5,000 you can basically buy the entire Olympus lens lineup and the body and try everything and learn that way.

    Nikon and Canon's real strengths are with the pro market which uses flashes shooting at the edges/extreme shooting situations. The thing is, starting out, you won't really be able to take full advantage of them. In a few years, you will be able too. During your learning phase, new bodies will come out and you will want them. It is like learning to drive and you go buy a new car or a used one. Will having a new car teach you faster how to drive? No. Save your money for when you know what you need.
    •Formerly TTJ•
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    TTJ, you are hurting the used market supply by giving such good advice. Let the newbies blow their wads on whatever they want.
  • tcole1983tcole1983 Posts: 981Member
    Since I have the lens and I always promote what I have since I purchased what I wanted for a reason...

    300 F4 shots..
    DSC_0050

    DSC_0141-2

    DSC_0101-1

    DSC_0251_20140917_1292-1

    DSC_0118_20140627_697-1

    A couple of other lens shots...
    105 F2.8
    DSC_0025

    DSC_0116-1

    18-200
    DSC_0310-1

    DSC_0255-1_2

    DSC_0020-12_7
    D5200, D5000, S31, 18-55 VR, 17-55 F2.8, 35 F1.8G, 105 F2.8 VR, 300 F4 AF-S (Previously owned 18-200 VRI, Tokina 12-24 F4 II)
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    edited October 2014
    Wow @tcole1983! Great pictures.
    I decided to seriously look at the Nikon 300 F4 a few months ago and your pictures just helped with the decision process. Very very nice. Are you using the standard Nikon collar or did you buy the RRS LC-A10 collar & foot combo package? I have allocated the $195 in the budget for next year for the RRS combo package. What do you think of the reliability and robustness of the Nikon collar? I have heard that if you buy this lens you should replace the light weight Nikon collar.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • tcole1983tcole1983 Posts: 981Member
    edited October 2014
    @photobug thanks! I still have the Nikon collar. It is sufficient at fast shutter speeds but I think you would get noticeably more keepers in the under 1/300 range with the after market collar. I have also heard of people wedgeing something between the lens and the mount to help stabilize it. But really it is my next purchase...I have heard from others that it is worth it. The lens is incredibly sharp and has awesome bokeh..it can actually almost do macro shots. I really think it is one of the best deals for reach and a pro level lens.

    I believe all of the above were hand held shots or with me leaning/resting on something. Again the fast shutter speeds....without vr it is something you have to be mindful of.
    Post edited by tcole1983 on
    D5200, D5000, S31, 18-55 VR, 17-55 F2.8, 35 F1.8G, 105 F2.8 VR, 300 F4 AF-S (Previously owned 18-200 VRI, Tokina 12-24 F4 II)
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    It is the low light issue which gets expensive… my post on PAD for the day is an example of how tough it is to grab good telephoto shots
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/15558322826/sizes/o/
    This is in impossible lighting, and as I was testing out the D800E with the 400mm f/2.8, I was on the edge. 1/160, f/3.5, ISO 1800. So, the compromise will have to be about the lens, and as noted the 300mm f/4 is probably the best bang for the buck. One stop less at 400mm and f/5.6 is the 80-400mm.

    D750 seems to be a good body….
    Msmoto, mod
  • dkookymonsterdkookymonster Posts: 16Member
    edited October 2014
    TTJ - thanks for the input. To clarify, I'm a 'newbie' to digital having shot the D7000 for the past 3 years; I think in the grand scheme, that still makes a 'newbie' to digital. I still have my Nikon FE that I shot for close to 20 years, but moved away from photography for quite a while, jumping back in with a D7000. I agree 100% with what you didn't implicitly say - the gear doesn't make the photographer...it's like saying 'buy a new typewriter or newest version of MS Word' and it'll make you a better writer.

    Interesting you'd mention the Olympus EM-1: one of my buddies here has it and generally loves it (hates the menus and says the focus took a little while to get used, performance wise but he's a fan). His brother just bought a Fuji XT-1 and is loving it also. Seriously, thanks again; appreciate the perspective and it's great advise.
    Post edited by dkookymonster on
    D7000 | Tokina 11-16 | Nikon AF-S 35mm 1.8 DX | Nikon AF-S 85mm 1.8 | Nikon AF 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 70-300 AF
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    OK, not such a Newbie. 18 months ago I was at your level, took Bokeh Hunter's #2 option, and bought everything in my signature except the F80.

    I that Golf has given pretty good advice for you. Note his advice on the tripod. That compensates for the low light handicap that you cannot completely neutralize unless you double your budget. An additional monopod would be good with wildlife.

    The 300mm f/4 would be a reasonable substitute to the 80-400 and combined with a 1.4 teleconverter (but no more) would give you some extra reach.

    So no reason to feel paralysis. You will not get better advice than already offered on this thread. Go pull the trigger.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member

    Deer rutting dawn today
    image
    D800 80- 400 @400mm f5.6 1/1600 ISo 2800
  • ThomasHortonThomasHorton Posts: 323Member

    Deer rutting dawn today
    Its the drool that makes this photograph. ^:)^
    Gear: Camera obscura with an optical device which transmits and refracts light.
  • dkookymonsterdkookymonster Posts: 16Member
    Bahahaha! Great shot sevencrossing - ruling his harem. :)
    D7000 | Tokina 11-16 | Nikon AF-S 35mm 1.8 DX | Nikon AF-S 85mm 1.8 | Nikon AF 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 70-300 AF
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,444Member
    Be carefull if you dont go all Nikon. I was reading today of people updating firmware and finding there third part products did not now work ..I sold all my sigmas because of compatibility problems with D7100.
    To be truly future proof stick with Nikon lenses
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,444Member
    I follow my own advice and Sigma cannot sort the D7100 problem so can they sort Nikons future "actions"
    Your choice just be aware and beware.
  • ThomasHortonThomasHorton Posts: 323Member
    I think that all that is needed is to give the third party time to issue their own firmware updates. You can't expect a third party to issue a firmware the same day/week as the primary manufacturer.
    Gear: Camera obscura with an optical device which transmits and refracts light.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    I follow my own advice and Sigma cannot sort the D7100 problem so can they sort Nikons future "actions"
    Your choice just be aware and beware.
    It certainly gives me pause. While I am sure that Sigma will ensure that the latest Art lenses will work with the D810, will they ensure that the current Art lens will work with the D840 after they have updated it to Art Version 2. And if so, how long will I have to wait for the update?.

    As you can see from my signature, I expect years of service from my lenses.

    Until a manufacturer demonstrates a track record of meeting the above standard, I will not be buying auto-focus lenses from them (but Zeiss, Voigtlander and Schneider, bring on the MF).

    And two or three years with three or four lenses is not a track record.
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