First DSLR...New D7000 or Refurb D7100?

spraynpray

Cool good to know! How does the d7000 perform in low light? Can I produce similar images to the Instagram link I mentioned above?

Like I said above - the D7000 is two stops behind the D7100/D5300 and you will need to buy a tripod if you want good results.

ggbutcher

Cool good to know! How does the d7000 perform in low light? Can I produce similar images to the Instagram link I mentioned above?

The link I provided is to their "Sports" assessment, which is defined: "Sports Score is defined as the low-light sensitivity performance and its unit is an ISO sensitivity value."

From the chart:
D7100: 1256
D5300: 1338
D7000: 1167
D50 (to show how much better it's gotten): 560

I don't think I'd give a lot of credence to the numbers individually, but as a basis for comparison they're telling.

With a wide-aperture lens, I'd say you could do any of the shots I looked at in the Instagram link with either the 5300 or the 7100. +1 to @spranpray's assertion about a tripod. But, I'd also give a lot of consideration to the lens max aperture for low-light performance, and VR...

spraynpray

@ggbutcher @rast21585: My results are from my own carefully conducted real world test - shooting a night scene with the same lens and identical settings in my D7000 and my friends D7100. The results made me buy one the next day. ISO 6400 on the D7100 was better than ISO 1600 on the D7000.

ggbutcher

@spraynpray: I think the DxOMark metrics corroborate your testing, albeit not in real measurements. Again, I consider the DxOMark numbers as appropriate for comparison, not for actual performance.

If low light shooting had been a priority, I'd not have gotten the D7000, probably in favor of the D5300 for cost considerations. That, and I was upgrading from the D50, against which most any newer camera was going to look attractive.

I have shot a bit of low-light with my old D50; I had to brace or tripod the camera to make it work, and VR helped somewhat. Haven't done anything similar with the D7000 yet, but again, it's not my focus, so to speak...

manhattanboy

it doesn't matter because you are always manually focusing at night anyway
[...]
The more I think about it, the more the D5300/D7100 still get my vote.

Thank you for your post as it prompted me to change back to my first recommendation...a 7100 refurb.

I don't manually focus on these newer bodies nearly as much anymore...are you telling me the 750 has trouble acquiring focus at night? Even the 7100 is pretty darn good-- two days ago I shot the 300f4 at night hand held on the 7100 and had no trouble acquiring focus. Granted I wasn't shooting at ISO100 like you probably would have on a tripod, but the point is that Nikon's new AF modules are pretty darn impressive. The 7000 on the other hand does have tremendous trouble acquiring focus at night even with an AF assist from a 910. In thinking about it I would go back to my original recommendation of a refurb 7100 given that significant night time shooting is required. The 5300/7000 does not have nearly as powerful an AF module as the 7100. Simple as that.

(and FYI I too would recommend a D750 over a 6D...but a 6D refurb or a D600 refurb are much closer to the OP's budget at under a grand each).

rast21585

I actually found this link showing the d7000 performing in low light. Do you seen any of the focusing issues that was mentioned here?


For low light reference: https://www.flickr.com/groups/nikond7000lowlight/pool/

rast21585

Also if i were to go the refurb d7100 route, I should not be worried about having a defective model? I am just worried that the shutter count maybe high.

manhattanboy

I actually found this link showing the d7000 performing in low light. Do you seen any of the focusing issues that was mentioned here?


For low light reference: https://www.flickr.com/groups/nikond7000lowlight/pool/

The "focus" issue related to how the focus is acquired. The AF modules rely on contrast between subjects and if the light is dim the amount of contrast also decreases with a resulting decreased ability to acquire focus. All of those pics are in focus, but the question is how easy was that focused obtained? (see here for more information: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-autofocus.htm)

You will find good low light pictures from all of the cameras you are considering. There is nothing on flickr that should sway you to one camera over the other, but rather they reflect more the skills of the underlying photographer. All of the cameras you are considering really are "good enough" to take the pictures you want. I still suggest you go to the store and try them out. A million people here will all have valid reasons for one thing over the other. Those of us that have shot with many of them can tell you differences between them, but really these are icing on the cake. Yes, I can shoot the 7100 more effectively at night then the 7000, but then something like the D4S blows both of them away. Everything is relative. Choose what you think you will be happy with and get out and get busy shooting. Like I said all of the cameras are probably good enough and there will never be a "perfect" choice. The 7100 is top of the line in DX so you could argue that there is no choice that is better...but what if you need wifi or want a flippy screen? Get the point? Choose what you want and desire and start shooting!!!!!

heartyfisher

If it helps I plan to take both color and b&w photos. I'll be mainly be taking pictures just for fun and print size I won't be printing too big. Just probably and average size image for something I would like to hang on wall. Here is an example of the type of images I would like to do; http://instagram.com/cole_younger_

My thinking is since I'm learning and new to this, maybe I shouldn't be spending some money right out the gate. I dunno what do you think is best for me? I'm just worried that I will experience the limitations of 5300 rather quickly if I went down that route.

Had a quick look at that link.. not one of them cant be done with the D7000 (sorry about the double negatives ;-) )

or the D5300 .. or the D7100 or the D5500 ..

rast21585

Would I be able to achieve photos like in the link without a tripod or is it a must do anything like that? Just curious if a lens with vr might help.

heartyfisher

tripods are the most underrated photographic tool ...new photographers may wonder why people spend thousands of dollars on tripods ...

spraynpray

Would I be able to achieve photos like in the link without a tripod or is it a must do anything like that? Just curious if a lens with vr might help.

No (and VR should be turned off on a tripod BTW). You will need a tripod for night work especially as I sense you are going to buy the D7000 whatever advice you get. To address a point made by an earlier contributor to this thread and for your information, there are big differences between shooting night time street photography in a town and being happy with the hand held HI ISO results or shooting a landscape just after sunset using ISO 100 or shooting a nightscape showing stars using long exposure AND hi ISO. IMHO the D7000 is an excellent camera that excels in good light. The D7100 will give you a couple of stops more but it depends on the images you want to take and the standard you want to achieve with them. If you are going to post 1024 x 768's on line, then get a D7000 but if you are thinking of looking at detail on a larger shot and or printing them, the D7100 is the better choice for night work. In good light, I would rather still have my D7000 for it's smaller files but still adequate (for most use) resolution. But because I like low light work, I had no choice. When there aren't many photons around, DxO's tests don't compare to my experience. I think it was @Ironheart that said the spread of their results are within normal testing variations or words to that effect.

I once said 'think of your maximum budget then buy the next model up as you will be far happier' and I stand by that - just a bit more money but a lot more satisfaction. Also, if you buy the D7100 it will have a longer life with you before the next upgrade.

Your choice - don't get analysis paralysis.

rast21585

Thanks I'm actually leaning towards the d7100. Maybe pairing it with the 35 1.8 lens. I'm just concerned about it being refurbished.

rast21585

Also as for a tripod, I am looking at the manfrotto befree. I like how it's well built and can easily be transported.

rast21585

Would I be able to achieve photos like in the link without a tripod or is it a must do anything like that? Just curious if a lens with vr might help.

No (and VR should be turned off on a tripod BTW). You will need a tripod for night work especially as I sense you are going to buy the D7000 whatever advice you get. To address a point made by an earlier contributor to this thread and for your information, there are big differences between shooting night time street photography in a town and being happy with the hand held HI ISO results or shooting a landscape just after sunset using ISO 100 or shooting a nightscape showing stars using long exposure AND hi ISO. IMHO the D7000 is an excellent camera that excels in good light. The D7100 will give you a couple of stops more but it depends on the images you want to take and the standard you want to achieve with them. If you are going to post 1024 x 768's on line, then get a D7000 but if you are thinking of looking at detail on a larger shot and or printing them, the D7100 is the better choice for night work. In good light, I would rather still have my D7000 for it's smaller files but still adequate (for most use) resolution. But because I like low light work, I had no choice. When there aren't many photons around, DxO's tests don't compare to my experience. I think it was @Ironheart that said the spread of their results are within normal testing variations or words to that effect.

I once said 'think of your maximum budget then buy the next model up as you will be far happier' and I stand by that - just a bit more money but a lot more satisfaction. Also, if you buy the D7100 it will have a longer life with you before the next upgrade.

Your choice - don't get analysis paralysis.

Btw with the d7100, a tripod will be also needed as well?

spraynpray

For your genres of photography you will need a tripod (especially night photography in very low light). Unfortunately with tripods - like bodies and lenses - you should get the best you can afford. If you are young, weight is less of a problem, but still a problem after a few hours. As a rule, the less leg joints in a tripod, the stiffer they are. A quick and dirty test I do is to extend the legs fully, put the tripod on the ground then grab the head and try to twist it both ways. If it twists a bit, move on to the next one until no - or almost no - movement can be seen. My Manfrotto 055CX PRO is pretty cheap in comparison to what others here have, but it does the job very adequately.

I just checked the Manfrotto Befree and frankly wouldn't buy it as it probably doesn't meet any of the criteria you need it to.

rast21585

For your genres of photography you will need a tripod (especially night photography in very low light). Unfortunately with tripods - like bodies and lenses - you should get the best you can afford. If you are young, weight is less of a problem, but still a problem after a few hours. As a rule, the less leg joints in a tripod, the stiffer they are. A quick and dirty test I do is to extend the legs fully, put the tripod on the ground then grab the head and try to twist it both ways. If it twists a bit, move on to the next one until no - or almost no - movement can be seen. My Manfrotto 055CX PRO is pretty cheap in comparison to what others here have, but it does the job very adequately.

I just checked the Manfrotto Befree and frankly wouldn't buy it as it probably doesn't meet any of the criteria you need it to.

Is this the tripod you have?
http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/40623343?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=129&adid=22222222228028788110&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=61534938489&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=97473719049&veh=sem

Just curious how does this differ from the befree in performance?

ggbutcher

@spraynpray said, "Your choice - don't get analysis paralysis."

+alot. That, above all else.

spraynpray

Yes, that is mine. Put a good head on it and you're golden. Being carbon fibre even I can carry it all day without thinking of it. The difference is the height it will go to and the stiffness of it at full height. When you want to do macro, the centre column does some really nifty tricks that you will like. Apart from that, as with all tripods, leave the centre column in it's lowest position unless a b s o l u t e l y necessary.

rast21585

Yes, that is mine. Put a good head on it and you're golden. Being carbon fibre even I can carry it all day without thinking of it. The difference is the height it will go to and the stiffness of it at full height. When you want to do macro, the centre column does some really nifty tricks that you will like. Apart from that, as with all tripods, leave the centre column in it's lowest position unless a b s o l u t e l y necessary.

That's definitely a better all around tripod over the befree. Btw have you had any experience purchasing items through adorama? That's where I'm considering getting the refurbished d7100.

Golf007sd

Have purchased thousand of dollars worth of gear from Adorama. Put your minds at rest, they are as legit as it get. Highly, highly recommended.

rast21585

Oh good that's a relief. Do you suggest getting an additional warranty through them as well? What's the normal turn around time if I were to send the camera back if there is something wrong?

spraynpray

Refurbed cameras are as good as new by all accounts. If I could have bought either of mine at a saving as refurbed I would have.

rast21585

So since the refurb is only a body, I am thinking of getting the AF-S DX NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G Standard Lens. Is that a good lens for what I want to do?

spraynpray

It's a start. It will be very good for a lot of things but best for none which I suppose is all you can ask for until funds allow other purchases. 35mm on DX is 50mm on FX so you will not get any wide angle shots with that. If I were you (and I'm not, so it is your choice), I would get the 18-140 as it will allow you to do more and you never know, you may decide it is all the lens you need.

Good luck with your choice and let us know what you buy. I look forward to seeing your shots on PAD.