D7000 Auto-focus Problems or Unwarranted Expectations?

Paperman

I focused on one of the bottles of hair gel and if you look around you can see the focus is actually on the ASUS box which is approximately 11 inches behind the plane that the bottle's writing is on

PhotoMe software can show the actual focus point. Can you upload the same photo without any touches - just as is ? So that the possibility of a wrong chosen AF point is eliminated.

And that ASUS box maybe at a distance of 11" from the gel tubes but difference between the focus planes is not more than 1-2" . See also that the garbage bin wires - almost on same plane as the tubes - is quite sharp.

TaoTeJared

It looks like the body is back-focused about 38%. You should have about 1/3 in front of the subject and 2/3rds behind the subject in focus. It looks like the front focus point is just in-front of the "beginning" DOF range.

Most lenses seem to be back-focus a bit (3-10%) so I wouldn't be surprised if an actual measurement put it more at 28-30% back focused.

Also note, checking focus for bodies with zoom lenses doesn't work. Zooms naturally "breath" (focus point moves) within the DOF. It is not unusual to see the wide end to have a large back focused point and the long end to be slightly front focused. Middle range tends to usually be back focused as well.

QuintonHurst

If this new D7000 does the same thing I guess I'll just go for the D5100 or D5200. I'm not sure how the removal of the low-pass filter from the newly announced D7100 is going to turn out. I'm suspicious of that and will have to wait for reviews before I drop the money on it.

EDIT: thought I double-posted but I guess I didn't lol

spraynpray

I'm not sure how the removal of the low-pass filter from the newly announced D7100 is going to turn out. I'm suspicious of that and will have to wait for reviews before I drop the money on it.

I don't think anybody has grounds to suspect the rightness of any planned feature of the D7100, the only worries are unplanned things that have arisen since the launch of another model or two. Does the D800E have any problems because of the lack of a low-pass filter? Apparently not so why do you have any reservations?

MikeGunter

Hi all,

Does the D800E have any problems because of the lack of a low-pass filter? Apparently not so why do you have any reservations?

Yes - a lot, too, - video which is why there is a D800 with the AA. ;-)

It is something I'm completely unclear with understanding in the D7100.

There are many (I've only seen one video example) clips of D7100 so far, so it's pointless to be critical of something on pre-production models, but most video requires anti-aliasing in the capture, sometimes in post processing, so it's while it was wonderful that the D800 came in two models with and without the filter, it's puzzling that the D7100 only has the 'without' version - unless Nikon is expecting the user to add an after market AA filter under the penta prism - not difficult, but not something I would really like doing.

In the "Fro Knows" video (Jared Polin), he mentioned that his Nikon sources told him that the lack of AA filter was negligible. I will wait and see. Frankly I'm somewhat skeptical. I'm happy enough with the work arounds I have with the D7000 now and I do too much video to consider the growing pains with something else.

My best,

Mike

Ironheart

@MikeGunter, it seems like Nikon could cook something up in the expeed processor to deal with moire and aliasing that way rather than in hardware. The subsampling of the DX sensor to create 2K (1080p) video is a critical and non-trivial operation anyway, so if they did it right they may be able to eliminate a bunch of it. Anyway, time will tell as more folks get their hands on it.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@Ironheart

it seems like Nikon could cook something up in the expeed processor to deal with moire and aliasing that way rather than in hardware. The subsampling of the DX sensor to create 2K (1080p) video is a critical and non-trivial operation anyway, so if they did it right they may be able to eliminate a bunch of it. Anyway, time will tell as more folks get their hands on it.

You bet. It may not have worked on the D800 or the engineers may have liked a hardware solution better. Just have to wait and see.

My best,

Mike

QuintonHurst

Also note, checking focus for bodies with zoom lenses doesn't work. Zooms naturally "breath" (focus point moves) within the DOF. It is not unusual to see the wide end to have a large back focused point and the long end to be slightly front focused. Middle range tends to usually be back focused as well.

It did it randomly at all lengths and also did it with a 35mm Nikon prime as evidenced by this picture. Something wasn't right with it.

I don't think anybody has grounds to suspect the rightness of any planned feature of the D7100, the only worries are unplanned things that have arisen since the launch of another model or two. Does the D800E have any problems because of the lack of a low-pass filter? Apparently not so why do you have any reservations?

To various reviewers of the D800E, moire was noticeable. In fact, Nikon had warned buyers saying that it would be evident. So yes, it does have problems. I usually photograph a lot of textures (metal and such) so fine patterns are a pretty big deal. The camera I used before the D7000 had problems but it was just a point and shoot so it wasn't expected to perform stellar anyways. The main thing is that the D7000 didn't give me any problems with moire and if this new D7000 doesn't auto-focus right, I am hoping the D7100 doesn't either as it would be the ideal alternative.

spraynpray

If you do shoot video, maybe the D7100 isn't for you but I don't so I forgot all about that side of things... 8-| I can't see Nikon leaving it out on the D7100 if doing that gave them a problem on the D800E though..

Isn't moire something that is easily sorted in Lightroom on import? Anyway QuintonHurst, I think you are probably right to wait and see how it turns out for a number of reasons - the lack of AA being the least of my concerns.

We don't actually know anything for sure yet though, do we. AIUI it will be March 21st before we get it - maybe some decent reviews before that.

QuintonHurst

*Sigh* I've only tried it indoors so far but it looks like the new D7000 body is doing the EXACT same thing. Phase detection is off but LiveView is great. You can see that parts of an image behind where I focus are sharper than where I focused. I used all of the "right settings" as well. You know single-point, AF-S, and all that good stuff.

I've read the reviews on all of the other lower cameras and the D7000 is too nice of camera to give up really. Now that I have a NEW body, I guess I'll just keep sending it to Nikon until it's fixed and pick up a D5100 for now. The D5200 uses the same AF module and there is no way I would take a chance on it for $100 less than what I'm out now.

PB_PM

There are a few companies that make moire filters, (they go inside the mirror box behind the mirror) to help compensate, wouldn't hurt to try one.

Ironheart

@QuintonHurst, if the autofocus is off compared to LiveView that should be easily fixed with the focus fine tune. Also have you tried more than one lens? Perhaps your lens is out of whack. Either way fine tune should fix. Since this is your second body, the lenses become more suspect.

QuintonHurst

Seems that objects 3ft. or closer are turning out good but it's taking a value of -10 to get the farther away stuff in focus. I'll just use it like normal over the next week or so and see how my shots are turning out. I'm tired of taking all of these test shots. lol

manhattanboy

Well after this I freaked and started to wonder maybe I got a crap D7000 refurb camera.
Here are 3 pics shot with a Sigma using autofocus viewfinder at a 85mm 1.4

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93649225@N06/

I thought these looked okay but maybe I'm too stupid to realize otherwise. Do I need to send it in for fixing?
Thank you for your help!!!!!!!!

Msmoto

@ nmanhattanboy

You need to post these at full size on a photo posting site like Flickr, then use the HTML code and post here. Then we can go to Flickr and look at the full size image and answer your question. These are way too small to asses anything.

And, when posting photos on NRF, use the 640 px size. You may also post a link to the full size image wherever it is.

To actually determine back or front focus requires a sophisticated testing procedure, not a simple shot of meat or such. We are talking about front or back focus of a centimeter or less at these close distances, but it needs to be tested at about 50 times the focal length. Then one can move the focus point back and forth a centimeter or so by cranking in +- AF.

manhattanboy

@ nmanhattanboy

You need to post these at full size on a photo posting site like Flickr, then use the HTML code and post here. Then we can go to Flickr and look at the full size image and answer your question. These are way too small to asses anything.

And, when posting photos on NRF, use the 640 px size. You may also post a link to the full size image wherever it is.

To actually determine back or front focus requires a sophisticated testing procedure, not a simple shot of meat or such. We are talking about front or back focus of a centimeter or less at these close distances, but it needs to be tested at about 50 times the focal length. Then one can move the focus point back and forth a centimeter or so by cranking in +- AF.

Uploaded to Flickr but after I saw your revised comment I guess it is not going to do much good. I should say that these were taken in a very dark restaurant without a flash, hence to high iso and all the grain.
What can I say. I'm still learning and will be forever. If if the camera is no good and the pictures are terrible they are still better then what I had before so I guess baby steps in the right direction LOL. Just taking photos for fun and because I enjoy it, but appreciate any help and tips!!!!!!!!!!!

Would any of these tests help:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html
I will try to do one of them and upload to Flickr

Sigma 85 Live View:


Sigma 85 Eyepiece:


Nikon at 80 Liveview:


Nikon eyepiece:


Any help????

Msmoto

To do the test, one must have the target at precisely a right angel to the optical axis. And, with a single target one can shoot images with the AF working, by dialing in -2, -4, -6, +2, +4, +6 then comparing the images at full resolution. If one end or the other is the sharpest, shoot some more with a range of + - 1 about this setting. When you have determined the best setting of the AF have the camera remember this for the lens. Then, each time you attach that lens, the AF Fine Tune is engaged if AF Fine Tune is enabled.

Incidentally, the images you have posted appear to be a photograph of your monitor. These are of no value for anyone to evaluate on the forum as the monitor has limited resolution. You need to upload to Flickr the original full size image after exporting to a file on your computer this full size image.

P 246 of manual may be helpful.

spraynpray

@manhattanboy: "I thought these looked okay but maybe I'm too stupid to realize otherwise. Do I need to send it in for fixing?"

I think you need to step away from the Forum and do some photography. Only worry about stuff if you see a problem with your photos, then research thoroughly. Nothing you have said indicates you actually have any problems so either don't worry or tell us why you think you really have a problem.

KnockKnock

Incidentally, the images you have posted appear to be a photograph of your monitor. These are of no value for anyone to evaluate on the forum as the monitor has limited resolution. You need to upload to Flickr the original full size image after exporting to a file on your computer this full size image. - See more at: http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/394/d7000-auto-focus-problems-or-unwarranted-expectations#Item_42

I was wondering about that moire!

Ironheart

If you guys dig in and read the info on the link that @manhattanboy posted:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html#sthash.nLNGzryp.dpuf

The author of that article is using moire as a technique to determine whether something is in focus or not. It's quite interesting, and the low resolution of your monitor actually works in your favor.

From looking at the results you have posted @manhattanboy, it seems as if your focus is pretty darn close and nothing to worry about. Go take some real pictures and post those! We can always pixel peep at eyelashes!

manhattanboy

If you guys dig in and read the info on the link that @manhattanboy posted:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html#sthash.nLNGzryp.dpuf

The author of that article is using moire as a technique to determine whether something is in focus or not. It's quite interesting, and the low resolution of your monitor actually works in your favor.

From looking at the results you have posted @manhattanboy, it seems as if your focus is pretty darn close and nothing to worry about. Go take some real pictures and post those! We can always pixel peep at eyelashes!

Thank you so much. Greatly appreciated. I thought the normal photos I've taken thus far looked great and was impressed with the sharpness. I bought a refub D7000, however, and according to this thread it seems every one of the refurbs is having focus issues that honestly I'm not quite good enough to appreciate, and my warranty is about to expire. I get a new Sigma lens tomorrow (my second Sigma) so will shoot some photos with it this weekend and post them up to Flickr.

P.S. the monitor in those shots is at 2560x1600 resolution and has IMHO been a decent monitor for a 30 incher. It has an anti-glare coating though which may make it look different.

P.P.S. I am posting the instructions of the focus adjustment from the link below in case they are helpful to any one.

AF Microadjustment procedures
The principle is that you display the square GIF image (at 100% full size) and focus on the computer screen, using liveview (zoomed if need be) and maximise the appearance of Moire interference patterns. Do not make the image 'fit' your screen, it needs to be unscaled.

You will need to have the camera mounted on a tripod and directly facing the computer screen. Take some care to get the screen square on and lined up with the camera.

If you want to be really accurate with lining things up, put a small mirror up, flat against your screen (or target). When the camera is proerly square on to the screen, then the reflection of your lens will be visible right in the middle of your viewfinder.
The interference patterns come about from the interaction between the image pixels on your screen and the pixels of your sensor. They may not look exactly the same as in the examples below, but you should notice a distinct peak in the amount of detail visible - that is the focus point.

Note - this won't work with a print of the image! You need a screen view
You then switch off liveview and part press the shutter button to activate AF.

Look carefully at the lens distance indicator as you do this ... if the lens and camera combination is spot on, then there will will be no movement of the lens focusing ring and the image will not change.

Msmoto

@ manhattanboy

No doubt your monitor is great...sounds like much better than I use. But, when one is trying to read an image of 7360 x 4912 pixels or close to this, it is way beyond the ability of the monitor, any monitor I know of and will have the moire which when viewed is difficult to assess from my point of view.

QuintonHurst

Well here it is, the same problem I've been having. Used my Nikon 35mm f/1.8G this time. AF-S center point was used again as well.

Here are the original NEF files this time...
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/52825519/EQH_0142.NEF
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/52825519/EQH_0143.NEF

It really upsets me to think I paid 800, then 900 for this D7000 and now I'll probably I have to be out $1200 for the new D7100. Are they not fixing these things anymore thinking that we'll all upgrade to FF bodies or what? lol

Msmoto

The first file appears to be backfocused severely....more than an adjustment...the second file is also somewhat soft, almost as if there is a problem in the lens. If this is doing this on an irregular basis, something must be loose in the camera it would seem to me. Does the eyepiece viewfinder image always appear normal? Are the contacts on the camera and lens clean? Have you reset the camera body? Are you shooting in conditions described on p.93 of the manual? It appears sometimes in certain conditions the camera thinks it is in focus, yet it is not.
On p.208, it describes the "release" and "focus" priorities. Are you in "focus" priority so the camera will not expose an image until the "in focus" dot is displayed?

HOpe this might help...

MikeGunter

Hello all,

In the FWIW category, I sent my D7000 in for AF readjustment and it is working very much better. :-)

It was about $85 total with shipping and about 3 weeks.

My best,

Mike