Do you use Active D Lighting on your Nikon camera

sevencrossing

Nikon does not modify it's raw data based on in camera parameters, but id does carry those parameters imbedded in a 'header' are of the file.

Thank you Harold, that was my understanding

donaldejose

As a rule of thumb: If I am shooting jpegs for convenience so I don't have to take the time to process a RAW file I don't use ADL when I have control over the lighting. But if I am shooting jpgs and I don't have control over the lighting and it is a high contrast scene with deep shadows which I don't want to go black I will use ADL because I find ADL will help reduce a bit of a hot spot and help preserve a bit of details in the shadow by deliberately underexposing the shot a bit and then recovering a bit of the shadows. I have used ADL high on a few occasions but find it boosts shadows too much for my taste so I stick to ADL auto or ADL low. If I am shooting RAW I do not use ADL because I think it essentially has no effect. Thus, I use ADL as sort of an automatic highlight control and shadow boost when shooting images on which I want to spend as little time as possible post processing. To lesson post processing time I also crank up sharpening in picture controls. For maximum control and quality RAW is the right way to shoot and ADL is of no benefit in my experience. However, I do not bow to the God of maximum quality on each photo I take. That would take the fun out of photography for me. If I loved spending countless hours in front of the computer post-processing I would feel differently, but I just don't. I prefer more hours with the camera in my hand and with exposure/compensation thoughts in my head than with the mouse in my hand and post-processing thoughts in my head. I do think there is a bit too much knocking of jpeg shooters by some people on this forum who think jpegs are poor quality. Actually, I think Nikon's current jpegs as adjusted by picture controls are very good quality and a great way to do your "post processing" right in camera. Just one point of view on the subject.

Ironheart

Nikon does not modify it's raw data based on in camera parameters, but id does carry those parameters imbedded in a 'header' are of the file.

Thank you Harold, that was my understanding

This is incorrect. Read the first page of this thread or live in ignorance. ADL does affect the exposure value of a RAW file.

sevencrossing

. ADL does affect the exposure value of a RAW file.

I have tried turning ADL on and off on my D800 I can't see any exposure change

paulr

Sevencrossing I think Ironheart answered your question.
PitchBlack I think most forum debates have an element of going off tangent, but sometimes this adds interest to the original question/post.

However some members do like to put their points stronger than others.

I prefer that we all help each other regardless of experience, and I find, I am still leaning new tricks even after 50 years of playing with cameras.

Ironheart

. ADL does affect the exposure value of a RAW file.

I have tried turning ADL on and off on my D800 I can't see any exposure change

It depends on how you have ADL set up, and the scene you are shooting. That is the second evil twist with ADL, is that it changes for every scene.
Active
Dynamic
Lighting

sevencrossing

Don't worry paulr I have no intention of turning on ADL or shooting jpegs, other that see if it has any effect

That is the great thing with digital "film is free" and you can put theories to test

Ironheart

From the D750 manual, page 175 (more or less in every nikon camera manual):
"The Active D-Lighting option in the photo shooting menu adjusts exposure before shooting to optimize the dynamic range, while the D-Lighting option in the retouch menu (p 397) brightens shadows in images after shooting."

I have found it will lower the exposure more in high dynamic range shots than in just a bright scene. I found it to be somewhat random in low light scenes, which is where I would bracket ADL if I were shooting JPEG only.

I apologize if any of my words have offended as none was meant. I just want everyone to understand how their cameras are intended to work. ADL isn't bad or good, it's just another tool in the arsenal. Once you understand it you can decide if/when/ever it is appropriate for you. Plus my last post was pre-coffee :-)

That being said, there are two aspects of ADL that I referred to as "evil twists" . In Auto mode it will pick how much ADL to apply, which might not be to your liking, and even if set to a fixed value (high, med, low, blah, blah) the effect it can have on any given shot can vary. The second is more of a general "evil twist" but the camera's histogram is always looking at the JPEG file. If there is no JPEG (RAW only), it looks at the tiny JPEG imbedded in the RAW file, which is affected by all of your picture settings, that you generally don't think about when you shoot RAW. Exposure and histograms being one of the few things to care about when shooting RAW, prolly a good idea to understand this relationship, eh?

Anyway, back to coffee. ~O)

proudgeek

When I bought my first DSLR many years ago, I didn't know much about anything and trusted a few sources. One them, Ken Rockwell, told me to use it, so I turned it on auto and left it on. Then a professional photographer whose opinion I valued told me to turn it off. So I did.

Shooting a D800, I leave ADL and other similar types of controls off under the assumption that my Macbook's ability to process and manipulate RAW files is better than the hardware in the camera, and the software I'm using gives me more power than what's in the camera. Maybe that's right, maybe it's wrong, but if I'm going to process an image I'd like to start with as clean a slate as possible. Perhaps this is flawed logic but it's how I'm shooting these days.

I should add to this post that I freely admit that I don't understand the technical aspects of this as well as most of you.

spraynpray

I see nobody commented on my post. No nobody get offended but I think you are to an extent mis-describing what it does in the context of the op's question. The RAW file isn't altered in any permanent way as I believe the data is recorded 'flat' in the RAW file but I think the jpeg settings are shown on the jpeg on the rear screen and used as a starting point when the RAW is opened. All can be undone or increased as required. I tried it with ADL and that seemed to be the case.

Ironheart

Like it or not, it is a documented feature that ADL lowers the exposure value, as much as a full stop depending on circumstances. That is irreversible.

PB_PM

For those who like to work with their images it opens a lot of doors. For those who don't like post processing, don't care too much about the final product, or only make 4x6 or 8x10 prints, jpeg shooting is fine.

How many who meet those criteria would bother with this forum.

... H

After seeing someone shooting a D3s with an AF-S 18-55mm VR, nothing surprises me anymore.

spraynpray

Lowers the exposure of the jpeg and the initially displayed raw file maybe, but I think the data off the sensor is could be flat. However, I am not certain and this is an interesting point so I will simply shoot two similar shots at different settings tomorrow and see how much there is to 'play with' in the two files. Unfortunately I have deleted the two I tried earlier.

I floated this theory on the 'too lazy to start a new thread' thread a while ago but it didn't attract any interest.

donaldejose

It you look at the graphic on the page I posted at the start of this thread it would seem that using ADL expands the apparent dymanic range of the sensor by underexposing to retain highlight detail and then by boosting the shadows, but this only happens in jpg. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d750/15

More of a concern perhaps is how ADL affects the histogram on the camera's LCD but I am not sure just how much of a problem that could be.

spraynpray

Yebbut all of that can be - and I believe is - done from the usual RAW data collected.

ggbutcher

I see nobody commented on my post. No nobody get offended but I think you are to an extent mis-describing what it does in the context of the op's question. The RAW file isn't altered in any permanent way as I believe the data is recorded 'flat' in the RAW file but I think the jpeg settings are shown on the jpeg on the rear screen and used as a starting point when the RAW is opened. All can be undone or increased as required. I tried it with ADL and that seemed to be the case.

I've been trying to capture a couple of images to compare an ADL exposure with its non-ADL equivalent; not easy in a hotel room without a tripod, controlled lighting, and a gray scale card. I'm using 2-frame ADL bracketing in the D7000, which captures one regular exposure, then an ADL exposure at the specified setting. I'm using Raw Therapee to produce a raw histogram. I just hand-held shot a gray scale off my laptop monitor, and the two histograms look virtually identical; I can't see any shift in the exposures.

spraynpray

@PitchBlack: I don't think you need to say it twice Mark, let alone a zillion times I think we get that.

@ggbutcher: Try to get the window in the shot if it is daylight, if not, try a light.

That RAW Therapee histogram sounds good.

Ironheart

Nobody is disagreeing that you have the latitude in post to overcome the loss of a stop or less. But why not just turn it off and not have that to contend with as well?

spraynpray

I know all that, but the discussion has moved on to whether different data is gathered using ADL or if the same data is displayed differently?

Ironheart

No, the only change to the RAW file is the lowering of the exposure value. The rest is an algorithm.

spraynpray

Sorry Ironheart, it isn't clear to me what you are saying precisely - if you are saying that the exposure is changed before the shot is taken or after? If before, do you know this for a cast iron fact or are you guessing? I don't know which is why I'm going to do a test if ggbutcher doesn't beat me to it!

Ironheart

Before. This seems pretty clear to me: "The Active D-Lighting option in the photo shooting menu adjusts exposure before shooting to optimize the dynamic range"

The effect on the RAW file is identical to lowering your exposure compensation.

spraynpray

Wow, I will check that of course, if I find it to be as you surmised, it will be switched off from now on at all times. Looking forward to seeing the results which I will post here.

Ironheart

My understanding is that this effect depends on the scene being metered and how contrasty it is. I clearly see the effect when ADL is on extra-high and I have the daytime sky in the picture and lots of shadows.

spraynpray

Yes, those were the settings I used earlier and the difference was very obvious.