When should we start a new thread?

sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
edited May 2015 in General Discussions
We all know the rules before starting a new thread Do a search first

But if you are asking a question this has two problems

1. The search on nrf is a bit vague

2 When asking a question on an existing 25 page thread, your question and any relevant answers quickly get lost. As your are not the OP, you cannot accept or reject the answer.





Post edited by sevencrossing on
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Comments

  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    As I already said in the D810 thread, this huge threads really don't help for specific questions. Maybe it's unpolite to quote myself, in that case my excuse is "here we have a topic to discuss, in the D810 thread it's only background noise". And what I said was

    You're right, lots of people have an opinion to this body and want to share it. First hand experience is hard to find and if a thread goes beyond ten pages I usually stay away from it. About 50% repetition or simply not aware that others posted the same only a couple of posts ago. Some of the NR threads I bookmarked, but none of the huge ones. I'm not entirely convinced, the policy of the mods to close certain new threads in an early state and try to lead the folks asking into the dinosaur giant main thread is always helpful. But that's the way it is.

    and later

    If he's quick enough, otherwise it gets buried under tons of 628 posts and counting.

    That's discouraging for both, the asking and the replying person. I can't see the advantage of few but completely inaccessible huge posts. Together with the mediocre search engine it's impossible to find a quote again. And since some people (I don't have any names in my memory) sometimes are quoting 4 inch of posts to add one sentence, it's a lot of recursive rubbish in there, too.


    There's a risk of redundant threads and I see that, too. Nonetheless, I'm a fan of small information packages with good overview and minimal blurb.

    I agree with @sevencrossing, the search is very vague - and it only gives you the thread, it's impossible to search for a certain term and get pointed to the post. If it would do so, we won't have problems to find information in a D400 thread… or maybe less so.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    edited May 2015
    Yes, there are limitations with any online forum. Some forums have a charge, others ask for donations, and NRF is free.

    If there is a specific new problem which warrants a new thread, I suspect no action would be taken to undue this.

    What is generally seen as necessary is a thread which asks a question such as "Do you like your Dxxx?" Probably not a very useful thread.

    We enjoy having all the folks participate on the forum, and would love to see some of you at the get together, currently to be held in San Francisco

    Date: Wednesday, September 30 - October 4th 2015 (Sunday)
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    Accommodation: TBA

    Also I will have a less formal shoot in South Dakota, specifically to shoot the old standards like Mt Rushmore, The Badlands, and local attractions in Spearfish, Deadwood and Sturgis. More to come.
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    edited May 2015
    Half the post an answer, other half PR for the get together :D Which is btw. excluding all European members.

    Hmmm… I make some progress in understanding why the threads don't stick to the topic all time :)

    And the "NRF is for free" - it is free of charge but all participants are clicking a lot and therefore the advertisements cash is flowing. i only know one forum which is free of charge AND advertisement AND has an excellent search. NEXT to cute members...
    Post edited by funtagraph on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,293Moderator
    Half the post an answer, other half PR for the get together :D Which is btw. excluding all European members.

    Hmmm… I make some progress in understanding why the threads don't stick to the topic all time :)

    And the "NRF is for free" - it is free of charge but all participants are clicking a lot and therefore the advertisements cash is flowing. i only know one forum which is free of charge AND advertisement AND has an excellent search. NEXT to cute members...
    If you prefer those conditions funtagraph, that forum is available for you to frequent. The fact that you are here probably means that this forum has some good points too. I know where I prefer to be.
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015
    I know where I prefer to be.
    Me too

    I don't think that, should stop us suggesting changes

    This is only forum I belong to that is not divided into sections

    Not a problem if you are a daily visitor but it would be difficult for casual visitor to find a past thread, that might be of interest to them.

    I find the most interesting posts are completely off topic. Was the off topic culprit, too lazy to start a new thread or were they scared it would be closed









    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,293Moderator
    There is a thread called 'too lazy to start a new thread?' which I use a fair bit and it could be used like a section if people thought of it that way.

    The way the forum is, is the way it is and although I agree changes can always be suggested, they may not be acknowledged or acted upon.

    I do belong to a classic bike forum which has a 'pub' section where anything goes, but at the end of the day there - as here - it is the members that make it good. The rest is just details.
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015
    There is a thread called 'too lazy to start a new thread?' which I use a fair bit and it could be used like a section if people thought of it that way.

    If it was a "section" rather than a "thread" I think it would indeed be very useful
    as it is it is difficult to respond to an individual post that may be on the previous page

    I am going to guess you pub section is indeed a section
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015
    changes can always be suggested, they may not be acknowledged or acted upon.
    So this forum is indeed owed by Nikon after all :)
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • Vipmediastar_JZVipmediastar_JZ Posts: 1,708Member
    I learned more on this site than anywhere else and choose to be here despite the occasional drama and off topic threads. Even if they are off topic usually they still provide some good info.

    While KR ask for donation I have learned a few things about older Lens and some info not found on nikons manual and haven't contributed to him.

    Another site requires paid membership but I see their threads are realative low

    I usually frequent another site that begins with a D and most members are always pessimist.
    I do find lots of great info on that site when I do a google search.

    Perhaps you can do a google search and include this site name and maybe you can find an answer like that vs the search feature on the page.

    If nothing relevant is found I think we should be able to make a new thread or at least in the thread that has the best similar topic

  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 922Member
    The only thing that really matters is that people write their honest opinions and respect others, and I think we mostly do.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    i only know one forum which is free of charge AND advertisement AND has an excellent search. NEXT to cute members...
    If you would share the URL of that forum, we could take a look at what software it is running. None of the changes anyone is suggesting are possible with the current software. We would have to change forum software, which is a bunch of work, we will loose the existing threads, and is generally a pain in the butt. However if we can point to other sites with specific examples, it may be possible to facilitate a switch. I for one hate the dpreview site format. I don't have any I like, except this one.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015

    If you would share the URL of that forum, we could take a look at what software it is running. None of the changes anyone is suggesting are possible with the current software. We would have to change forum software, which is a bunch of work,
    This forum does seem remarkably bug free
    I just had a look at Nxxx Cafe, it just froze
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    There are in fact a list of Categories in the right hand column
    but many posts are in the wrong one
    some useful categories are missing
    eg
    Computer hardware
    Non Nikon Software

    I dont think it is possible to search a category

  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,340Member
    edited May 2015
    This site depends on its users. I think that the vast majority of the users on here are respectful, which I consider important.

    Searching, especially for a Newbie, is a pain. We should encourage Newbies to ask any questions that they want, even if they should have done a search first. The Moderators' should then step in and "on board" them to educate them in our ways and ensure they stay members.

    And if a current member does something that detracts from this onboarding process, then that is another role for the moderators.

    In fact, it is better for the forum when a Newbie posts a question rather than searches passively for an answer. That means that they are active and the onboarding process can begin.
    Post edited by WestEndFoto on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015
    We should encourage Newbies to ask any questions that they want, even if they should have done a search first. The Moderators' should then step in and "on board" them to educate them in our ways and ensure they stay members.
    +1

    I am not sure how or why I stayed here. When I first joined; Niko closed or deleted all my posts
    Probably because I had the audacity to ask about non Nikon things, like computers and Lightroom
    Topics, which we are now allowed to discuss
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    If you prefer those conditions funtagraph, that forum is available for you to frequent. The fact that you are here probably means that this forum has some good points too. I know where I prefer to be.
    Well, to you that forum would be useless: 1. it's in german and 2. it's about Mac (or Apple). AfaIk the forum software is basically "Powered by phpBB" and the templates as well as some functions are customized. I don't understand enough of that matter, I just see a lot advantages in it's usage.

    Interesting scheme of reaction: "if you don't like it here, go away" and that's by just suggesting some small changes.

    Also, this two well-known sentences "we never did it that way" and "we always did it that way" (meaning "it is like it is") use past tense for a reason ;) . It's just a bit boring, this loop "Do a forum search before posting" and @sevencrossing and me are not the only ones using the search with not much results. Either too many hits or not the right ones and after that crawling through half a library of posts. I'm willing to invest some time in avoiding double or triple posts but I'm unwilling to waste a lot of time with it. And the huge threads are a waste of time to read through. I don't see a forum as a book, manual or an encyclopedia: Once written, no more changes. It's dynamic and it's flowing and shorter, but more threads appear more efficient to me.

    After some time old threads get more and more outdated. I don't record my discussions with other people to re-listen if I have maybe the same question again after one or two years. I dare to ask again, because after some time the answer could become different.

    I understand and accept, there's maybe not enough knowledge, will or wish to change this thing and I'm aware it could be or become much worse and in the worst case would go offline.

    But then we could find different ways to work around. Allow shorter threads without the do a search first. Explain how to get better results with the search. Maybe there's a simple way to jump directly into the post where I find the word or phrase I'm looking for? I haven't found such a way yet, but I'm using Google very basically. How could we use the tags? Can we tag posts or are the tags meant for the whole thread?
  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    edited May 2015
    ...I for one hate the dpreview site format. I don't have any I like, except this one.
    At dpreview, I'm always happy about the "reader" mode of Safari. This tiny white text on dark background hurts my eyes instantly.

    The site I was talking about is http://forum.macsofa.net and in german.

    What I like there is advertisement free design, they have some kind of sponsors but also some skilled volunteers which keep the engines running. Off-topic is never a problem since life often is off-topic. Some people here have different point of views - other people there have about 20.000 posts and counting. Mods are mods for decades, the busiest one count's about 64.000 posts - which are often two smileys but I'm still wondering how he's doing that with a day job.

    The search page looks like this

    I just googletranslated the
    Search for words :
    Place + in front of a word which must be found and - in front of a word which must not be found . List of words separated by | into brackets if only one of the words must be found . Use * as a wildcard for partial matches .

    You can search by date, author, in sections/sub-sections, in thread title or text or both, jump to thread or post. I think it's a little masterpiece. Can't recall a single search ending without any good match.

    Post edited by funtagraph on
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,181Member
    edited May 2015
    I think you can do the + and - stuff here too but the other bits are on by default here so you dont need it. If you want a specific string use quotes. Basically we use google for our search so all of googles capability is available.
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    I just did a couple of searches on subjects I know have been covered recently . All the results are from the old forum

    Is there an easy way of limiting search results, to say, the past 12 months
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,181Member
    The search seems to have changed since I last searched :-) looks confusing now !! LOL i see what you all mean :-)
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,223Member
    The search engine is a real weak point here, no doubt about it.

    The complaint about long threads does have some, limited, warrant. I think it might be prudent in the future to separate rumor type discussion about a camera/lens from post release information, so that the early pages of a thread are not bogged down with speculation. Beyond that I see no need to have 5-100 threads saying, "OMG, I got a Dxxxx and it's great" or "Ah Dxxxx is terrible".
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    @PB_PM most of us are not super-disciplined when it comes to make difference between the rumor discussion and the real camera questions. This, and the search with low result quality and very low comfort of search settings or filters could be short term solved with a slower locking down of threads.

    The original question of this thread appears to be still open.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,223Member
    edited May 2015
    The solution would be simple, threads related to rumors could be titled as such (or retitled by mods) and post release threads could also be marked as such. Another solution: Popular products, newly release cameras or lenses, could have a sticky thread at the top of the forum to prevent the ducussions from being pushed down.

    Starting multiple new threads on a regular basis will not help people find the information they need, it will only make matters worse. Why? The already inept search function will be even more taxed. One way to help fix the problem would be to purge old form results from the search results, considering that it is two plus years out of date now.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    The point of having the search function return results from the old forum was to prevent a re-hash of topics that had already been beaten to death. That worked oh-so-well for the DX vx FX discussions :-) Also, there is still a wealth of information on the old site for older stuff, if people are looking for that.
    If you want to omit the old forum, its as easy as this:
    "D90" will search both forums "D90 -nikonrumors.com/forum" will omit results from the old forum. If anyone actually knows how to use a search engine this is easy. Perhaps what we need is a searching tips and tricks comment added to the "Please do a search..." thread.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2015

    ......"D90" will search both forums "D90 -nikonrumors.com/forum" will omit results from the old forum. If anyone actually knows how to use a search engine this is easy.......

    I think asking members , to learn this, before they make their first post will not encourage new members

    that said, encouraging new members may not be one of Admins objectives




    Post edited by sevencrossing on
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