How many of us wish for a better Live View experience using a Nikon DSLR?

CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
edited June 2015 in Nikon DSLR cameras
With the release of the latest Nikon DSLR bodies (D750/D5500/D7200) I was truly expecting Nikon to finally come up with a better main sensor AF system, either on-chip phase detection (which needs new sensor hardware in the form of specialized filters or "split pixels" like on Canons) or something akin to Panasonic's depth from defocus contrast detection (which is mostly more lines of code on the firmware, and thus might need new processor hardware in the form of faster chips). Nowadays, Nikon is the ONLY camera maker who relies solely on plain contrast detection for LV shooting and the only one without a solution to the hateful slowness and hunting that this type of focusing provides, especially when shooting video. Giving us focus peaking would also be very helpful. How much additional processing power does a camera needs to be able to provide focus peaking? Video is being pushed heavily as of late by Nikon's marketing people but they don't show true technical commitment on this regard.

And how about not having live histograms shown in LV stills mode on most bodies? That will be a wonderful tool to have while using old lenses, and that is something that Nikon has always been proud about, being able to use all Nikon F lenses from 1959 onwards. Live histograms and at least focus confirmation in LV would make using old Nikon glass oh so much more fun.

LV is not my go-to way of shooting with my Nikon DSLRs, mainly because how awful it is to use, but you have no other choice if you're shooting video, and there are a lot of instances when LV shooting stills is the only way to go. I think Nikon should put on more effort on this regards, at least to keep up with the competition.
Post edited by CaMeRaQuEsT on

Comments

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,005Member
    edited June 2015
    Nikon already has the technology you are talking about, it's used in the Nikon 1 system cameras. Why they haven't incorporated this technology into DSLR's for a better liveview shooting experience is another question altogether.

    My guess is that Nikon's SLR lenses are simply not optimized to use the hybrid system. Just look at Canon, only the STM (rather than the traditional USM, which is equivalent to AF-S) lenses can really take full advantage of the hybrid AF that is in some of their cameras.

    As for the histogram, not sure what you mean. Nikon has a live histogram for liveview shooting, at least there is in both movie and still mode on the D750. I know they also had a live histogram in video mode for the D800 as well.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited June 2015
    On the cameras I own, in live view, the mirror is not moved at all when taking a shot. Yes, the shutter is closed, opened, closed and then opened again, but the mirror never moves. Take the lens off and verify for yourself. In fact, live view still shooting is a way to avoid mirror slap vibration.
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • ThomasHortonThomasHorton Posts: 323Member
    It would be nice to have focus peaking. I wonder how hard that would be to implement?
    Gear: Camera obscura with an optical device which transmits and refracts light.
  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
    edited June 2015
    On the cameras I own, in live view, the mirror is not moved at all when taking a shot. Yes, the shutter is closed, opened, closed and then opened again, but the mirror never moves. Take the lens off and verify for yourself. In fact, live view still shooting is a way to avoid mirror slap vibration.
    Actually, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Tried on my D3300, if I shoot in single frame or quiet mode, it won't, but if I shoot in continuous frames mode it will, even if I only shoot 1 frame, and if I shoot multiple frames the LCD screen will black out for the duration of the shoot while the viewfinder works as normal (???).

    Post edited by CaMeRaQuEsT on
  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
    edited June 2015
    Nikon already has the technology you are talking about, it's used in the Nikon 1 system cameras. Why they haven't incorporated this technology into DSLR's for a better liveview shooting experience is another question altogether.

    My guess is that Nikon's SLR lenses are simply not optimized to use the hybrid system. Just look at Canon, only the STM (rather than the traditional USM, which is equivalent to AF-S) lenses can really take full advantage of the hybrid AF that is in some of their cameras.

    As for the histogram, not sure what you mean. Nikon has a live histogram for liveview shooting, at least there is in both movie and still mode on the D750. I know they also had a live histogram in video mode for the D800 as well.
    I wonder how AF-S lenses behave on Nikon 1 bodies using the Nikon adapter.

    As for live histograms, there are missing in my D3300 or my next upgrade the D5300 or even the D5500 and the D610 for that matter. And on the D7200, weirdly enough, you only get live histograms while in video mode, not in stills mode. I had to go through all those bodies' manuals to find out. I guess Nikon really only wants people to buy the D750.
    Post edited by CaMeRaQuEsT on
  • kenadamskenadams Posts: 222Member
    edited June 2015
    Without having read the manual and freely admitting to it -is there a way to move the image frame in LV? I can zoom in using the loupe buttons or "100%" shortcut button, but I can't seem to move the frame to some area other than the center when zoomed in?

    A friend showed me what his magic lantern firmware hack can do on his Canon 60D, and that includes focus peaking. At first I though it was some kind of bad static, but it colored the areas that were in focus. It looked a bit crappy, but the light was awful, so it may have been that. Great stuff anyway.

    Why Nikon - or any of the big companies - deliberately leaves stuff like this out is beyond me. I can see that they want to limit features to the upper end of the stable, but if my D800 doesn't do it on purpose, then what model does?
    Post edited by kenadams on
  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
    Without having read the manual and freely admitting to it -is there a way to move the image frame in LV? I can zoom in using the loupe buttons or "100%" shortcut button, but I can't seem to move the frame to some area other than the center when zoomed in?

    A friend showed me what his magic lantern firmware hack can do on his Canon 60D, and that includes focus peaking. At first I though it was some kind of bad static, but it colored the areas that were in focus. It looked a bit crappy, but the light was awful, so it may have been that. Great stuff anyway.

    Why Nikon - or any of the big companies - deliberately leaves stuff like this out is beyond me. I can see that they want to limit features to the upper end of the stable, but if my D800 doesn't do it on purpose, then what model does?
    I can do it by using the D-pad, but then again my D3300 doesn't have a 100% magnification shortcut button.

    Yeah, it's a real shame we don't have hacks like Magic Lantern.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited June 2015
    @kenadams, the 100% zoom shortcut may be locked at the center, but if you zoom with the plus/magnify button, the dpad should move all over the image.
    @CaMeRaQuEsT, there is the nikon hackers group, and they have given us a few things. It seems they are desperate for cameras and some manpower. If we funded them, like the canonites do for the magic lantern team, we would get better results. I have donated, has anyone else?
    https://nikonhacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=91
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • MaxBerlinMaxBerlin Posts: 86Member
    Nikon gets color depth, color and WB very well. But they lag on live view, having an EVF, operation through the OVF, and field use for people that want to use manual lenses.

    Sony haptics are the reason why Sony is really killing it with new consumers. And if Sony drives Nikon innovation up and prices down, that's a good thing.

    But with a true 14 bit (or better) compression scheme in the works, and adapters that will AF Nikon lenses, Nikon better get off the line or become the joke that Hasselblad has become.

    How long before we see Nikon brand by sticking decals on Sony gear?
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    https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/
  • kenadamskenadams Posts: 222Member
    @ironheart, thanks, silly me obviously is not yet used to the lock for the selector pad... d'oh. It does work once one unlocks this.. *sigh*

  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
    It's almost as if Nikon and Sony have a secret agreement on how to go to market each: Nikon can use Sony sensors as long as they don't mess with them in hardware, preventing Nikon from implementing PD on chip (Nikon doesn't seem to use Sony sensors on the Nikon 1 series), and Sony can use Nikon designs on their sensors as long as they don't put a penta-prism/mirror on their bodies. But if Nikon wants to, they can make their own version of Panasonic's DFD, so no need to mess with the sensors provided by 3rd parties, while avoiding PD pixels from affecting the final image, which is a legitimate concern for 0.001% of pictures taken with PD capable sensors.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    One never knows how the manufacturers may work, or collude, together so as to manipulate the market place. As I have suggested, albeit, tongue in cheek, the CEO's play golf together, both hit into an out of bounds area and when looking for their golf balls decided on how the respective companies will go forward....LOL
    Msmoto, mod
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,293Member
    I have to agree with a little bit of what Cameraquest says in that I find the auto-focusing in Liveview to be a little disappointing especially acquiring true focus confirmation. It is slow especially when zooming in to lock and confirm your point. Otherwise, I have found the histogram, horizon lines and area coverage in liveview to be excellent with Nikon bodies especially the D800 + line.
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