When to sell your Camera Body {D4} or any High end Camera

paulr

With Canon bringing out a 50 Million pixel camera, Nikon will respond witha a simular if not better model. The Nikon D4 appeared in January 2012 so so will becoming up to the 4 year possible Model change .I made the decision to sell my D4 now, before any new models came out to help stop the depreciation which would decrease its value. I had a D4 and a D810 and found I wa using the D810 most of the time and the D4 was just left in the studio. This was due to my workflow changing but found the D810 coped well except for the very fast FPS rate if I needed that requirement.
Camera Bodies drop dramatically in price even more so, when a new model appears.
Thats life, but it still hurts.

sevencrossing

I assume after 3 years a digital camera will lose 80% of its value
in fact most digital stuff, loses most of its value after 3 years
Financially it is better to sell an existing model before the new one comes out
but this not possible, if you need to use it before the new one comes out
I have not sold my D800 and bought a D810
If / when the D820 or D900 comes out; my D800 will replace my D700 as a spare
and I will give my battered D700, which is valueless, to a deserving person

kanuck

An excellent topic Paulr and I agree with you. With digital cameras it's not the same as the film days when you had your pro F5 body and could hang onto it for 20+ years. Digital technology changes far too much for this to ever happen. I agree with Sevencrossing in that 3 years digital cameras lose about 80% of their value. I think Nikon likes to refresh its line every 2-3 years anyways. Just out of curiosity did the D4s release "float your boat at all" or did you shrug it off because you had the D4 already. I still think the D4x 50mp monster to compete with the Canon 5ds series will be announced at the end of the 4th Quarter 2015. The D4 will be sub 3k shortly after most likely.

"Camera Bodies drop dramatically in price even more so, when a new model appears.
Thats life, but it still hurts". I feel the same way that you do. Remember highly paid pros get their gear for free so it bothers them very little. Recently when the D810 came out I took a huge loss on my D800e when trading it in. Then my Leica M9p took a huge loss with the new M240 that came out. That's over 3 grand in lost cash just these past 2 years. However, at least Leica bodies hold their value a bit better than Nikon digital bodies especially if you keep them in 90%+ condition....

Once again the old saying rings true "invest in glass not bodies"

paulr

Kanuck The cost factor to change to a D4S from a D4 for the difference in my opinion were not worth it. I went through the sager of owing a D3X the most expensive digital camera Nikon ever made, and lost serious money on that one, I have sold my D4 through Ebay and got an excellent price and the buyer was happy with his purchase.
Mind you compared to the loss factor that Digital medium format cameras loose, perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky. I think the Nikon camera that kept it's value was the D3S and still makes amazing prices on Ebay. Fortunately I have a few Nikon lenses and they seem to keep their price.

sevencrossing

Once again the old saying rings true "invest in glass not bodies"

if you want an investment talk to a financial adviser

For the best IQ you need good glass and the latest sensor

there is not a lot of point in buying a AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR
and putting it on a 10 year old camera

paulr

Sevencrossing, I think anybody who can afford AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR will have the appropriate matching camera unless they kept their 10 year old camera for sentimental reasons.I have still got my Kodak Bantam Colorsnap Camera which my father gave me many years ago.

Having said that, You make a valid point.

framer

Most of the depreciation is gone. If you keep it another year it might bring $500 less than today. It's still a D4. As many know I was going to get rid of my D3s but next year it will be worth not that much less than right now. I'd wait till the D5 is announced then decide. If you won't need it for the next year then sell it.

framer

Msmoto

I am so old, my suspicion is my D4 and D800E will suffice for a long long time....

But, I really want a full frame mirrorless which will use my Nikkor lenses.....

Actually selling the cameras....will give to grandson most likely....

kenadams

What I still can't wrap my head around is that the camera itself doesn't get worse. A computer, I can see that. Software evolves, browser plugins and websites deliver more content, we handle more programs in parallel on increasingly older tech that wasn't built for it.

Cameras, they hold up. No new software puts any higher demands on them then before. It's just us and magazines that tell us the latest is the greatest. After all, we're not talking about the first few crappy P&S w/ 1.3MP that were thrown on to the market for the techies in the early 2000s. This technology is pretty much in "for $1Billion in R&D we're going to squeeeze another half stop of DR out of this sensor within 2yrs" territory, the curve of technological advance is not that steep anymore IMO.

WestEndFoto

Agreed. The D800 will be a very good camera 4 years from now. I expect it to be a good 2nd camera/backup to a D820 until I finally replace it, as a 2nd camera/backup, with the D820. What will the D820 be a 2nd/camera backup to? Perhaps a D840? That is a bit far in the future to speculate.

proudgeek

Funny, I was writing words to this exact effect then stopped, thinking it sounded dumb. It's true though — my D800, which I bought for $2,800 in August of 2013, is now "worth" less than $2,000. But is it? It's still taking great pictures (with some help from the idiot standing behind it). In fact, I'd say it's taking better pictures now than it did two years ago, since I've learned more about the camera and my technique has been refined. Depreciation in this case is a tricky thing.

sevencrossing

... my D800, which I bought for $2,800 in August of 2013, is now "worth" less than $2,000. But is it? It's still taking great pictures ...

mine is bashed battered and if I tried to sell it, doubt if I would get even $1,000

but that does not matter, like yours it is still taking great pictures

PB_PM

Agreed. The D800 will be a very good camera 4 years from now.

Yup, just about any modern DSLR will be a good camera for many years to come. The tech has slowed down in recent years, so upgrading every 2-3 years is almost a waste of money, unless you are a megapixel whore. From my point of view the value of a camera is not so much about the dollar figure you can get in return for it, as how useful it is to the current owner. That simply is not something you can put a price tag on.

As for the OP's original question, like any tech the best day to sell a camera is before it arrives at your door step and you open the box. Nikon is the only one making money on these cameras, they are not investments.

Vipmediastar_JZ

I tried to sell mine on e bay before/around the d810 annoucement and people were offering 1200.00 Its a good backup camera and don't feel the value is lost but supply and demand is a diffrent story.

donaldejose

When to replace bodies is an interesting topic. Some new models are minor improvements and can be safely skipped. Some new models are major improvements and include a new feature which can make your photography much easier. For example, if you have a D4 I think the D4s can be skipped but the D5 with a new focusing mechanism (if it really dose have 173 AF points) is likely to offer too much improvement to skip. D610 to D750 can be skipped if the focusing mechanism in the D610 isn't bothering you. If it is, the D750 would solve that problem. I keep looking at D4 selling prices on e-bay and they are half the original cost of the body: a good deal. But you can get a new D750 for less and a D810 for about the same price and they offer some features the D4 lacks. When the D5 comes out later this year or early next year I would expect D4 prices to drop another $500. If that new AF mechanism in the D5 really is a significant improvement I would expect a lot more D4s appearing on the used market and prices falling another $500 for a total of about $1.000 less than you can get for it today. So if that D5 is a highly likely purchase for you and if you have a suitable body to shoot until it appears you are likely to save yourself about $1.000 by selling the D4 today rather than after the D5 appears. I think paulr made the wise choice. It seems to me the only reason to keep a D4 today is if you really need the fps because you shoot sports or dance. The less rugged bodies currently being built in the Dxxx line are going to last longer than the technology in the body so we don't really need a Dx level body robustness anymore. Also, if the D5 really does have some fantastic new AF system it will start appearing in the Dxxx body line in a few years.

Ironheart

For me, the D7000 to D7200 upgrade hit the grand-slam. 1) 2x Deeper buffer 2) Enough MP increase to keep me happy for a long while (24 vs 16) 3) improved IQ/DR 4) Better/faster processor/AF

I would say each of these was a quantum leap forward, which isn't/wasn't the case with D800/D810 or D3s/D4. Those were more like a D7100 to D7200 upgrade, which most folks didn't do. It seems as if skipping a generation is your best bet, be it on the consumer Dxxxx, Semi-pro Dxxx or Pro Dx.

It seems like we might be hitting the point of diminishing returns on DSLR technology, 50MP, 15FPS are here, and getting past those limits probably requires a different approach, like mirrorless, or other game changer. Time will tell, but you may already own your last camera:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/february-2013-nikon-newsvie/last-camera-syndrome.html

ThomasHorton

Reading this thread introduced me to an alien concept.. alien to me anyway. I have only sold one SLR camera in my life and I have regretted it for decades. But then in 35 years of strictly hobbyist photography I have only owned five SLR type cameras. So I tend to keep them a while and I only like to upgrade when it is the camera body that is holding me back as a photographer.

I like to keep and display my old cameras. Since there is so much time between my cameras, it kinda makes sense to keep and display.

With this logic, my present camera should last me the rest of my life.

kanuck

Sevencrossing, I think anybody who can afford AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR will have the appropriate matching camera unless they kept their 10 year old camera for sentimental reasons.I have still got my Kodak Bantam Colorsnap Camera which my father gave me many years ago.

Having said that, You make a valid point.

Exactly and chances are they need this combo otherwise that's an awfully expensive hobby setup to have. So Paul you are shooting now with your D810? Do you have the same reservations about this body as you had with your D4?

MaxBerlin

Better live view, an EVF , a 750 style LCD plus some other resolution type improvement would cause me to buy a new Nikon. Sony needs to fix 11+7 bit color before I even look at their gear again but it still isn't worthy of pro use (mainly flash, WB and other color issues). The 810 will be a backup for the new Nikon.

paulr

Kanuck In word "No". When You consider that the D810 is virtually half the price of a D4 and I personally think the D810 is the best value pro camera on the market, and of course it has the same focus system as the D4S, OK the build quality is not as good as the D4 but I can live with that.
The thing what does seem to make a difference is when Nikon bring out a new processor for a camera, I loved my D3X but was amazed how better the D4 was in comparison, I think, the D810 with its updated processor just has the edge on the D4 , but thats progress, and I am all for that. Like my D4 I bought the extended warranty and unless something very special comes out from the Nikon stable I will be keeping my D810 for the 3 year warranty period.

kanuck

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. I agree with the D810 you get the new D4s auto focus and all the improvements that were missing in the original D800 release. Some would argue that the D800 should have had these features all along, but then there would have been no need for a refresh then obviously. Would you have any interest in a full frame mirrorless body from Nikon or a new D4x body Paul? I imagine you would not want to get stung again for the D_x expensive line. The D4x with its likely 50mp sensor ought to be a seriously expensive body. Maybe even higher than the $7,000 USD D3x was...

paulr

You're starting to encroach on Medium Forman territory Kanuck, once you get into that price range. I think I'd be tempted to buy a used PhaseOne outfit, or a Hasselblad system. The Medium Format drop aprox. 60% in the first 6 months which is serious money. You only have to look on Ebay to see the prices.
Example Hasselblad HD5 60 million Pixel camera body, 180 actuations cost £28,000 offered at £1399 00 now thats scary.
I am happy, in fact very happy with my D810 so it would have to be very special to temp me.
At this moment in time I think i have the perfect setup, Nikon D810, Zeiss Otus 55 1.4 lens and DxO pro 10 Elite software.
With regard to mirrorless FF cameras I will wait and see, Thats a big technology move, It took Nikon 4/5 attempts to get the One camera right, so forgive me for being a little cautions

NSXTypeR

I don't think a DSLR is worth selling unless you're within 1 new camera generation- that is, the D7000 is only worth selling if the D7100 is available new. It's not worth your while if the D7200 is available too. That's only if you want the most value out of your sale.

Personally, I don't think camera value is worth anything now. Manufacturers used to upgrade their pro SLR cameras every couple years or so. Think about how long Nikon took to bring the F6 to market after the F5. Now the upgrade pattern is every 2-3 years.

When I bought my D7000, I was going to trade in my D40 on a whim. I think it was worth $50 after adding in all the body caps, manuals and batteries. It wasn't worth it, because I couldn't get another DSLR for $50.

sevencrossing

Think about how long Nikon took to bring the F6 to market after the F5. Now the upgrade pattern is every 2-3 years.

The F came out in 1959 ( when I got my first camera, a brownie box
The F2 1971 12 years

The F5 came out in 1996 the F6 2004 8 years

D1: June 1999.

D2H July 2003 ~ 4 years.

D3: August 2007~ 4 years.

D4: January 2012~ 4 years

Expect the D5 announcement for the winter of 2015/2016, -

Ironheart

I don't think a DSLR is worth selling unless you're within 1 new camera generation- that is, the D7000 is only worth selling if the D7100 is available new. It's not worth your while if the D7200 is available too. That's only if you want the most value out of your sale.

Personally, I don't think camera value is worth anything now. Manufacturers used to upgrade their pro SLR cameras every couple years or so. Think about how long Nikon took to bring the F6 to market after the F5. Now the upgrade pattern is every 2-3 years.

When I bought my D7000, I was going to trade in my D40 on a whim. I think it was worth $50 after adding in all the body caps, manuals and batteries. It wasn't worth it, because I couldn't get another DSLR for $50.

I traded my D7000 in when I bought my D7200. The dealer gave me $400. I only paid $600 for the D7000 when I bought it. I feel it was worth it to offset the cost of the D7200. I still have a D5100 and a D3100 so I didn't see the need to keep it.

kanuck

"With regard to mirrorless FF cameras I will wait and see, Thats a big technology move, It took Nikon 4/5 attempts to get the One camera right, so forgive me for being a little cautions" I fully agree with you and I think the first FX mirrorless Nikon will blow people away like the first Sony A7 did, but it will likely be flawed and will take several refreshes to get to the point that Nikon FX and DX bodies are at now. I could be wrong though, Nikon might just take one of the already successful Sony A7 sensors and plop it right into a Nikon body and away we go! The sales of these Sony bodies has to irritating Nikon and Canon...

I also couldn't agree with you more about the staggering drop in prices on medium format cameras. It's enough to strictly make you buy used bodies only if you can wait at least 6 months. That Ebay example, you gave is a perfect example! I simply value money too much to have that much of a depreciation and certainly it is why you started this discussion. Again a great topic to discuss Paul.