What am I doing wrong with my D800 - 80-400 AF-S combo?

One_Oh_Four

I use my D800 plus the 80-400 AF-S VR II a lot for photographing AIF (Aircraft In Flight ). Basic settings are: AF-Continuous, Default Lock-On, Focus by AF-On knob, VR off at upwards of 1/400, aperture f/8 - f/11, shutter 1/500 (props, heli's) - 1/1000 (jets). Focusing sensors Dynamic 21.

Now, when aircraft are flying towards me at an angle I find that initial aqcuisition lacks, as if the AF module can't / doesn't take the speed of the subject in account enough. Also, when tracking the subject, the lens is prone to throw of focus for one or two frames and then re-focus. During that proces I still have my thumb on AF-On.

When the subject is in focus, the images are stunning, down to the last rivet, but it seems to me that I have too much "throw-aways". Does it look for you aircraft spotters, motorsports photographers and BIF-shooters that I am doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance for your support!!
Cheers,
Erik.

sevencrossing

Have you tried single point, rather than d21?

Have you read this

http://nikonrumors.com/2015/05/13/nikon-af-modes-explained.aspx/

by by Steve Perry ?

One_Oh_Four

No, hadn't seen it yet! Thanks, not at home at the moment, I'll look at the video when I get home.

Killerbob

That's an excellent run-through of the AF capabilities, and quick "read" as well. I have used the 80-400mm quite extensively, and have had most luck with;

a1 - AF-C priority set to "Release"
a3 - Focus tracking set to "1 (Short)"
a4 - AF activation set to "AF-ON only"
a7 - Focus point wrap-around set to "ON"
a8 - Number of focus points set to "AF51"

AF set to AF-C/d9. These settings are for moving subject shots. If the subject is still, I change AF to AF-C/S.

This lens requires good hand-holding skills, or a monopod:)



D810 | Nikon 80-400mm @ 400mm | 1/1000 | f/8 | ISO 400

Msmoto

Well, these fast moving objects do require a personalized set-up, as we all tend to do things a bit differently. For me, on a D4 or the D800E, and using 10 FPS on the D4, five on D800E, this is what I use.

AF tracking lock.....off
AF-C 9d
Shutter speed...from 1/250 to 1/800, depending on subject and angles.

My experience has suggested when there is the focus tracking lock on, if the subject moves off the central focus point, the lens may not have the best predictive focus tracking and I miss a frame or more. With no lock-on, it is instantly refocused when I acquire subject, thus I get more "keepers".

However, the D800E is IMO when compared to the D4, not very good at capturing fast moving objects. And, I will admit, my experience is with the older 80-400, not the current version. The same technique is used for my 70-200, even with the TC-20EIII and TC-14EII. Here is one example....



D4, 70-200mm f/2.8 at 120mm, 1/640, f/4. Object moving about 40 mph toward me at distance of about 70 feet.

One more point, when shooting the fast moving objects, I press the AF on button, holding this down as I track the object, then when I press the release the object is, hopefully, already in focus as the camera has obtained active focus tracking/predictive focus tracking and the little gray cells in the camera are working at their best......a la Poirot

Killerbob

I think the "Focus tracking" is very dependent on the particular situation, including how good one is to pan and shoot... If for instance there are lots of obstacles between you and the subject, a longer focus tracking could be used quite successfully.

One_Oh_Four

Thank you for your thoughts!

Cheers,
Erik.

gene_mcgill

My experience with D800E and AF-S 80-400 has been a little disappointing at 300mm and higher, more so when the subject is farther away than, say, 200 yards. I've had best results using AF-C d1 or d9, AF tracking off, VR off above 1/500. I almost never close it down more than f/8, I shoot mostly at f/5.6. I had more consistent success with the D700 (sold off) and the AF-S 80-400. I find the D7200 (bought with D700 cash) yields much better results with the AF-S 300 f/4 D than the AF-S 80-400. The AF on my D7200 is far better than my copy of the D800E.

BabaGanoush

@Erik, You didn't say what focal length(s) you were working at but I assume (since you're tracking AIF) it's FL=400mm or close to that, in which case, if I were you and shooting handheld, I'd prefer to use a shutter speed of 1/800 or faster. With VR on, a slower speed might suffice, but you did write that you were turning VR off. I'd also try shooting at a larger aperture, 7.1 or even 5.6, to give the AF more light to work with.

One_Oh_Four

@gene_mcgill, I was wondering how the D7200 would AF compared to the D800. If my reasoning is right, an AF-sensor would cover a larger portion of the VOF in the D7200 than on the D800, wouldn't it?

@BabaGanoush, indeed, I mostly shoot this lens at 300 - 400mm. When it's a jet-engined aircraft I shoot at 1/1000 or higher but when it's a helicopter or a propeller aircraft I go down to about 1/500. Otherwise you have a helicopter that looks like it'll fall from the sky because the rotorblades seemingly don't move! At 1/500 and above I switch off VR because it's possible that the VR starts to cause the blur...

I have tried it at 1/250 with VR On, but then I have to give the system some seconds to measure "my vibrations". Till now that gave pleasing rotor-blur or prop-blur but also somewhat too many overall blurred photos!

One_Oh_Four

I didn't figure that VR On / Off business out myself:

http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

Although it is an older article, I think that it's basically still correct. Maybe that Sport-VR redefines it, but I don't know.

gene_mcgill

@gene_mcgill, I was wondering how the D7200 would AF compared to the D800. If my reasoning is right, an AF-sensor would cover a larger portion of the VOF in the D7200 than on the D800, wouldn't it?

The D7200 AF covers the field slightly better side to side.

Regarding air shows, given the bodies (D800E, D7200) and applicable lenses (70-200 f/4 & f2.8VRII, 300 f/4D, AF-S 80-400) I have, I'd try the D7200 with 70-200 f/4 and the 300. Air shows usually happen in good light, so the D800E high ISO advantage isn't as important. The D7200 can shoot more continuous shots than the D800E. Between the crop factor, and the high number of pixels which make D7200 images pretty crop-able, I might find I don't need 400mm. If you are interested in the D7200, you might want to rent one and see if it works for you. The last time I shot an air show was in film days, your mileage will vary! Lately, shooting birds has been much more satisfying for me with the D7200 unless it is low light.

One_Oh_Four

@gene_mcgill, The idea of renting a D7200 for (a couple of) day(s) -possibly with a 300PF- sounds like a good one!

TriShooter

Nikon's AF settings are extremely versatile to cope with various environments, static vs fast moving subjects, and our individual shooting styles.

If I am shooting in the clear AF tracking is off - if not in the clear the shortest time that will allow me to get past trees or other interfering objects that are in front of the target with AF-C set to 9d usually for birds (the higher the number, the more of the frame the camera is trying to focus on so 51 points for small objects is not going to work well) / VR is set to off because there is no time to wait for it to lock, and a shutter speed of at least 1/1000th second for bif, or anything 1/500th of a second, or higher. makes VR undesirable. Also, do not forget Nikon gave an update to enable the D800 to handle trap focus which is what that AF-On button is for; it is an awesome feature. Learn to use it, and your hit rate will improve dramatically for close in fast moving targets.

I've shot bif with the new af-s 80-400mm VRII, and think it performs pretty well, but it is not near as fast focusing as the old af-s 300mm f/4. I have used the 8o-400mm shooting hawks, Great Blue, and little Blue Heron, but would not waste time attempting to shoot fast darting swallows with it.

Once again it is versatility / convenience / flexibility versus the faster focusing shorter, or prime with their fixed focal length.

I have not been to an airshow in a long time, but bet I would get more keepers with the new 80-400mm, or the 70-200 w/wo a teleconverter over my 300mm prime because of the wide range of distances I would have to cope with at this kind of event. The new af-s 80-400mm VRII is my goto lens now for walking in the woods. I leave it on the camera attached to a Cotton style vest, frequently even after I have my tripod with the Wimberley setup.

BTW I would probably mount the 80-400mm on a Wimberley gimbal mount fixed to something akin to a Sirui P-326S Carbon Fiber Monopod for airshows. I think this would be a killer setup for this kind of shooting.

One_Oh_Four

@ TriShooter, thanks for your thoughts! Good pointers for me to keep in mind / try out!