A Practical & Civil Discussion about Mirrorless vs DSLR

124»

Comments

  • PeachBlackPeachBlack Posts: 141Member
    Hearty... I have never understood the lure of putting a camera into more of a crop mode. Why? I don't ask this incredulously, I ask it because I really want to know. Putting a camera in a more cropped mode results in exactly the same photo as having cropped it in post, with the downside of giving yourself less leeway. What if your horizon is crooked? If you took the photo cropped and you try to straighten the horizon, you may lose part of the photo that's important, but if you have more space, you don't have this problem. I just don't get it unless you are really pained for storage space.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,742Member
    There was a time that I shot in 5:4 as I like the aspect ratio and it helped my composition. Now I don't shoot in crop mode, but often find myself composing the shot knowing that I will crop it to 5:4 in post. The advantage of this is that it avoids the issues that Pitchblack has identified.
  • PeachBlackPeachBlack Posts: 141Member
    Hubris may well be my fatal flaw, but I'm not fool enough to believe that the decisions I make about composition in the split second that I take the shot will be better than the decisions I make in the fullness of time as I closely examine the unfinished image. This is why I believe that you can't have enough sharpness or enough megapixels. The more latitude you give yourself in post, the better your final product can be, "skill as a photographer" be damned.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    Re cropping vs crop mode. PeachBlack is right of course cropping after is almost always preferable.

    What I meant was that there are many people who already use crop sensors mirrorless and if they are using it successfully for whatever they are shooting then we can in fact use it in a similar fashion but crop after(as you say) which will yield better results. eg: since a m42 mirrorless user only uses the 2x crop. a DX user that can compose outside the 2x will have better sensor AF coverage than even that mirrorless. so the advantage is still with Mirrored cameras. however of course its different with FX mirrorless which has a real coverage advantage.
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    edited December 2016
    Re: coverage of the af spread.
    its a physical limitation. There are 2 mirrors.
    1) First a large one that reflects light up into the Pentaprism and viewfinder.
    2) Behind the large one is a small one that reflects the light down to the af sensor. The issue is there is no space to put another large mirror behind the first large mirror.
    The mirror numbers are reversed in the diagram below... :-)


    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • PeachBlackPeachBlack Posts: 141Member
    I absolutely refuse to believe that with all of the engineering challenges that have been overcome in the history of the world, that this can't be solved. As I said before, it would just require R&D... which is a money issue.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    I think the key is to remove the mirrors ;-)
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,742Member
    They could put the AF housing in the top I think. The camera would get a lot bigger under the hot shoe. Oh well.
  • DenverShooterDenverShooter Posts: 416Member
    Nikoniser said:

    We have hit the limits of optical glass and sensor technology, we will see improvements but they will be incremental and slow.

    Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. Mr. Deull's most famous attributed utterance is that "everything that can be invented has been invented."

    Denver Shooter
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,675Member
    "You know what would be cool? Really good facial recognition that automatically focuses on the closest eye... or calculates the minimum aperture to get both eyes in focus... or if multiple subjects, the minimum aperture to get both subjects in focus. Yeah, that would be cool. " Agreed.

    Thom Hogan is predicting Nikon mirrorless systems in 2018 but also a "significant" product for the 100th Anniversary of Nikon on 2017 which could be a new mirrorless system. The Nikon 1 system had many advantages but the sensor was just too small and wonder why Nikon hasn't just scaled it up to FX size. How hard would that be?
  • rmprmp Posts: 586Member
    GOOD COMMENT! The comment about auto-focus, face-detection punching the f-stop to make sure both eyes are in focus, shows real thought. I hope Nikon can read. :-)
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member

    Hearty... I have never understood the lure of putting a camera into more of a crop mode. Why? I don't ask this incredulously, I ask it because I really want to know. Putting a camera in a more cropped mode results in exactly the same photo as having cropped it in post, with the downside of giving yourself less leeway. What if your horizon is crooked? If you took the photo cropped and you try to straighten the horizon, you may lose part of the photo that's important, but if you have more space, you don't have this problem. I just don't get it unless you are really pained for storage space.

    If you are shooting at a distance and don't need the rest of the frame because your subject easily fits into the crop, why go through in post and have to manually crop all of those frames? The second reason is likely the limiting one for many: the D500 shoots 10fps and will quickly fill up those expensive XQD cards. Anything to help make them last longer while still being able to adjust RAWs in post is beneficial IMHO, and that is a great reason to shot in crop.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,675Member
    Why not crop routinely in camera? Because you are throwing away megapixels you paid for. Keep as many as you can by filling the viewfinder.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    edited December 2016

    Why not crop routinely in camera? Because you are throwing away megapixels you paid for. Keep as many as you can by filling the viewfinder.

    My turn to say "I have never understood that logic" :-)

    Always seemed "unright" to me. not quite wrong but not quite right either...

    Why? well after thinking about it a bit it seems to me that you need to consider the functionality of your whole photographic system as a whole (include the flashes and softboxes, whole set of lenses .. etc etc etc) .. If you do that then you will see that your camera(photographic system) can do heaps and heaps of things(functionality) and for any single image that you create you use only a very very small subset of that functionality.

    So the real aim of all this "photography" is creating an image, right? So what if is don't use my $3000 tripod for an image. is it "wasted"? So what if I don't use that $2000 lense on an image? is that "wasted" too ? so what if I don't use all the mega-pixies available on the sensor on my camera .. its wasted? of course not. That's my thinking anyway :-)

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,742Member
    edited December 2016

    I wonder if I will get an answer?


    Case Number: 01724824 Status: OPEN

    Why do you put such a crappy focus system into such a great camera?

    Submitted: 27/12/2016 07:27 PM by Web

    Read the last part of this post about focus coverage (see part at end of year):

    http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/4644/a-practical-civil-discussion-about-mirrorless-vs-dslr#latest

    Product: D5
    Category: Other
    Computer Operating System: Windows 10
    Service Order Number:
    Uploads:


    Wow!!!

    Response from Nermin S.
    Hello Jeff,

    Thank you for contacting Nikon Canada.
    Was there a specific focus issue you are personally experiencing with your D5 camera? If so, please change the camera setting to JPG small and capture an image showing the focus issue you're having and send us that file uncropped, edited or altered in any way, so we can look into this for you.

    Kind Regards,
    The Nikon Team



    Post edited by WestEndFoto on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,675Member
    heartyfisher: If you are satisfied with a 6 mp final image you don't have to worry about extensive cropping. On the other hand if you paid more money to get a 36 mp sensor and you want to keep as many of those megapixels as possible (maybe because you may make very large prints of the image someday) than you want to keep as many of the 36 mp in your image as you can which means minimal cropping. Just like if you are shooting a landscape in dim light with a very sharp lens and you have a choice of hand holding or using your tripod you would elect to use your tripod to "save" as much sharpness as the lens is capable of producing. If you don't care about obtaining maximum sharpness you can hand hold the camera. Same with flash, when it can make the image better because you can shoot at lower ISO and you want maximum image quality, you use the flash. You don't "waste" what you don't care about but you do "waste" what you could have done better if you do happen to care about that item.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    edited December 2016
    @donaldejose yes ... isn't that what i said? there are scenarios when you use your $3000 tripod and $2000 lense :-) but there are lots of times you wont and it would be a valid well thought out choice either way.

    The goal is the final image..
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,443Member
    edited December 2016
    What I would like is aperture tracking ...say f4 up to 60mm then going to f8 to match the best attribute of the lens as shown by DXO.....follow the sharp point....I would like the camera silent with or without a mirror ..just an electronic click I can adjust the volume of for only me to hear.
    Post edited by Pistnbroke on
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    I have to agree with @PeachBlack, @donaldejose and others concerning not cropping in the camera. When I am shooting film the thought has never entered my mind to cover up part of the lens or film to crop what I was shooting. That is always something that was reserved for the darkroom.
Sign In or Register to comment.