Lets be clear on Clarity.

Ironheart

@msmoto we are discussing the "in camera" clarity setting (picture control). It is probably different (but similar)to what LR calls clarity. I was only observing what I see as Nikon hasn't divulged anything

Pistnbroke

Msmoto ...you keep increasing the confusion talking about applying Clarity to raw images .I started this thread to talk about the clarity function in cameara so that we could get a handle on how best to use it ....I am sure the RAW users would like a thread of there own.
Donaldejose..we have a lot of metalic threads in waistecoats which I found lost detail.Its not as simple as the nikon sliders on the website where moving up to +5 just has beneficial effects in real life it does not.I think it was spraynpray who quoted that over +2 burned whites.
Still we have acheived what the other sites did not ..some concensus on what settings to use.

Msmoto

I agree about the content, but suspect if we can understand clarity in LR, possibly this would be helpful in grasping what Nikon was doing to JPEGs in camera. If one examines the shots I did, then this could be the same as the effect in camera.

It is stated in the D810 manual:

"Depending on the scene, shadows may appear around bright objects or halos may appear around dark objects at some settings." p 174

This is what I think I see in the examples in LR to some extent.

However, I will keep my nose out of this now...LOL

donaldejose

No, keep your nose in. Your examples were instructive and I understood it was from Lightroom not in-camera but since Nikon called is a Clarity setting I would expect it to work similar to LR clarity just as you did.

Pistnbroke

More tests at tomorrows wedding ....personally I am not interested in anything to do with raw other than blending two or more firework images.

Ironheart

You can do that in camera as well. Either by multiple exposure, or the edit/retouch menu after the fact.

Pistnbroke

Yes Ironheart that is what I meant ..in camera RAW blend and thanks for reminding others you can do that in camera ...raining cats and dogs ..off to the wedding...

Pistnbroke

Well I think it was Ironheart who said I was tenacious ..so here we go to finally put this Clarity to rest.
It resuslts that exposure/clarity and noise are all inter related.
The burning which many have commented on is simple over exposure..study the histogram and if you put claraity +2or3 you need -0.3 on the exposure and with +5 you need -0.7.
Now thats great because if you use auto iso it drops the iso say 2000 to 1400 which is good for noise ...NO its not ..the noise at 1400 with clarity +5 and exp -0.7 is far worse that at iso 2000. Also the test chart shows bars visible at 5.5 with the clarity on but much better at 7.5 with the clarity off.
Hence my objective to turn the D810 into a point and shoot for wedding use means auto iso 200-6400, F8. sharpe at +9 Clarity 0.0
If you put clarity ON with exposure compensation gives less IQ and more noise.
I have also found after all these years that disableing Easy exposure means the rear control wheel is inoperative which saves taping it up....
Remember the moto " Test dont Guess"

snakebunk

Since the discussion seems to be over, have you considered adding clarity in post production and only on part of the image?

Pistnbroke

A disscussion is never over ..just presenting what I have found for others to learn/comment/ignore .....I dont do raw I shoot jpeg and then lightroom/perfectly clear with mods in photoshop if req

snakebunk

Do you get better result from applying clarity in camera compared to in lightroom?

Pistnbroke

my version of lightroom does not do D810 RAW and its not relavent to ME ..might be to you so go test dont guess.

snakebunk

I shoot raw so I don't do any processing in camera, but when you shoot jpg you can add clarity either in camera or in lightroom.

Pistnbroke

I think you missed the point that adding clarity in picture control gives multiple problems ( exposure/noise) but I have spent many days on this and you take it or leave it as you wish..do your own tests and let us know what you find dont Guess ( or take nikons word for it ) Test,

TriShooter

Interesting thread which I've been following for awhile now. However, I am not shooting with the D750, or the D810, so cannot help with examples.

But, I think the camera clarity control is probably intended to be used for a limited, but useful function for a particular lighting scenario. When clarity is used otherwise it will noticeably degrade the image.

First the purpose of the clarity control, as many here have said in various ways, is to add micro contrast to the hard edges of an image making the blacks deeper, and the brights brighter which gives the illusion of more sharpness, depth, and pop to an image that has a low dynamic range. Clarity does act as a contrast control, but only at the extreme left and right end of the histogram.

In my opinion, clarity will almost always degrade an image which is perfectly exposed because the image will lose detail in the darker, and in the brighter areas of the image so the quality impact is negative, will lower the image quality, and it makes sense to me that it would accentuate existing noise, which is what Pistnbroke has stated above.

The scenario where the clarity control might be useful is when the scene is showing a low dynamic range on the histogram. In this scenario the clarity setting will make the darker grays move toward black, and the brightest parts of the image move toward the higher end of the histogram increasing the perceived dynamic range which will add the illusion of perceptual depth, sharp, and pop to an otherwise flat looking image straight out of the camera, at the expense of some additional noise.

The best image exposure would probably be to move the right side of the histogram to the left without forcing the left side of the histogram into the black in effect underexposing the image which explains the noise increase because noise at any ISO is always lower when the exposure is perfect which is why we can easily shoot at higher ISOs with flash with a very small increase in perceived noise level.

I would be interested in hearing back from those of you that have the D750, and D810, on whether using clarity this way has any benefit to getting a better shot straight out of the camera.

spraynpray

Yes, I agree with most of those comments from Trishooter. To me, clarity is one of those marmite controls that I'd rather not use but I do find it useful to improve the image if the lighting is flat. For example I used a dollop on my recent PAD shot of the rutting stag.

TriShooter

TriShooter, nods agreement with @spraynpray: concise and succinct.... Giving a flat image a little life has merit; beyond that it looks like the risk / reward calculation is negative for image quality.