D3400 / D3500?

Ironheart

The 3x00 line has always been left out of camera control, I believe the CPU doesn't have the horsepower or some other basic compute resource. The control API is nonexistent, hence the reason that third party products such as camranger won't work either. My D3100 still takes great shots in good light or on a tripod though! With a 35mm DX welded on it makes a great point and shoot.
The wu-1a is $40 at target right now.

DaveyJ

Buying yet another D7200 within two days......asking everyone I could almost everywhere......the collective wisdom and short range forecast is that the D500 will outperform any 35mm digital camera for video with but a few exceptions, like the new D5......the 7200 gets rated as better than the D3300 for stills, for video, etc.....having shot with everyone of these cameras except D5 and D500.... I preordered a D500 and ordered the D7200.....I guess it is a done deal.......Nikon in my view.....should have got out the D3400 quicker......the DL 18-50 etc....just not that attractive....the D3300 not going there again right now.....which I would have purchased with the D7200 just to get the 18-55 Nikkor VR II lens......can't totally defend my rationale.....but at least it was a better thought out decision than most of the medium format and large format film cameras and lens purchased back when I had a big income! I also have an advantage of being a father and grandparent of workers first and photographers second who can buy and use we'll hear I can no longer afford! But I surely wish I was writing to say I was getting also a D3300 and the 18-55 kit lens.....but I cannot buy everything Nikon makes.....Should admit the D500 pre-order is for both my son and I shared......

spraynpray

@CaMeRaQuEsT - so how in your opinion does the 3300's still image quality hold up to the 7100's - especially low light?

We're way off topic here guys...

CaMeRaQuEsT

You know spraynpray, it's a toss. If you shoot ETTR, heavily lifting shadows brings up green noise on the darkest parts on the D3300 files due to its lossy 12bit RAW, while on the D7100 you might bring up banding. D7100 highlights are much more nuanced, though, while on the D3300 they seem flatter. For stills the Toshiba sensors on both the D5200, D7100 and the D7200 are ahead of the Sony sensors on the D3300, D5300 and D5500, but if you need to shoot 1080 video at 60fps like I do, then the Sony sensors are the way to go. If you shoot only 1080 at 24/25/30fps then the actual limiting factor is the EXPEED3 processor, as EXPEED4 gives you surer WB and almost totally eliminates moiré and false color artifacts. With the D7100 I was happy to shoot at up to ISO 6400, with the D3300 I try to not go beyond ISO 3200, so there. But for about 1/4 of the price on a refurb D7100, I think I can manage to live with the D3300's shortcomings just fine. Hope your question was not sarcastic though

Ok, back to topic. Admin believes that a D3300 replacement is imminent, if only to keep up with Canon's newest iteration on its lowest end DSLR line, the 1300D/T6 (which I should add is way, waaay behind the D3300 in IQ), and since we are probably at least a full year from the possibility of a 4K capable D3x00, Nikon might keep the D3x00 line relevant by just adding in-body WiFi/NFC/BT/Snapbridge, prop it up a bit with a touch screen to fight the probable Canon 100D/SL1 replacement and save back on all those additions by building it like the D5500 with a single plane MB and smaller and more concentrated ICs while making its body even smaller, again to fight the 100D/SL1 replacement on more even terms. Multi-CAM 4800/2016pixel RGB would be an awesome addition, along with 14bit RAW, but alas I might be pushing it too far.

spraynpray

No, it was not a sarcastic question, you've had both and I am interested. Interesting reply and not what I expected, thanks.

CaMeRaQuEsT

Yeah, again off tropic, I was totally expecting Nikon to have improved 1080 at 60fps on the D7200, that would have made it the perfect camera for me, but I guess there are read-out limitations to the Toshiba sensor/Milbeaut processor combo on the D7200 that the Sony sensor/ARM processor combo on the D3300 overcame. Maybe it is the complete package of Toshiba sensor, Milbeaut processor and 14bit lossless capabilities on the D7100/D7200 that make them such outstanding APS-C stills cameras, I'm not sure, but good, uncropped 1080p60 and lower cost are deal breakers for me, so I'm sticking with the D3300 for the time being, although the D5500 has dropped so much in price it is starting to look like a nice option (even better than the D5300 which hasn't bottomed down in price the way I expected it to by now), what with its 14bit files (still lossy, sadly), even cleaner high ISO video output compared to the D3300 and, ta-da!, flat profile!

DaveyJ

Sure doesn't sound like Thom Hogan's take on this D3300 and mine from using it for half a year! When I get my B&H package Monday it will not,have a D3300 in it, just the D7200 and some gear. The D3300s ability to take stills is not at the level of the D7100. The herky jerky video on the D3300 is no improvement over the D3200. CaMeRaQuEst's assessment of the D3300 is the best I have seen. And for that matter SpraynPray's rating of the 18-55VR Nikkor lens was the best I have ever seen. Thom Hogan does rate the 18-55 VR lens as a must own. I completely agre with that!

But the D3300 buy line as I am Small and Powerful.....needs now to add nearly obsolete!
This camera should have been updated darn near a year ago! The D3000 series I believe is vital to Nikons success and ability to attract new photographers versus camera phone casual users. And it has to have some comparability to Canon's latest offering! One thing the D3300 absolutely needs to get current is highly rated video at 60 dos as I hear many young photographers say that as much as any one comment! Maybe the recent Nikon introductions which include the D5 and D500 (almost ALWAYS noted by these same young enthusiasts all who sell some of their photo and video work) have stalled or delayed the update of the D3300. About the best example of a recent introduction from Nikon which has caused a bigger question than it served as an answer was the Nikon DL camera series. The 1" sensor entry just seemed to question the Nikon 1 series and that of course sports some at least labeling of 4K video, etc., etc.......my guess it might have been better to get the D3400 or D3500 to Market with no flaws! As to the off reading charge.....that is staying on topic.......this is not a narrowly defined topic. I know a dozen Nikon fairly recent photographers who rushed to find out where Nikon's stock was going. The Internet has issued in many changes, social media the same......keeping up with the Canon's and Fuji's, and Sony's is noticed more and more. Have you noticed how many cell phone "photographers" who pixel count and look at charts of cell phone users compared to traditional camera users? It is more prevalent than you seem to think! The D3000. Series is to important to let it go outdated and out gunned.

DaveyJ

Comment on off reading should read off roading.....even my mini iPad doesn't accept this wording.....but this discussion needs to take in the sum total of need to update! That need to update is multi-factorial not a single facet discussion! I too am greatly interested in D7100 and D7200 Versus D3200 and D3300 as I have owned them all and shot with them for quite a long time! I have videos of D7100, D7200, D3200, D3300 all. Which make the cameras and lens look great, others which exhibit banding etc! In fact it seems subject and lighting related, and unfortunately you don't know which it is until the dust is settled and the die is cast.......I do know we own video cameras that are superior for just that use, but then there are other greatly significant trade offs.....like in racing.....you run what you brung!

CaMeRaQuEsT

I almost didn't buy my first D3300 because of Thom Hongan's review, but when reading his D3200,D3300, D5200 and D5300 reviews back to back I realized that he just updated parts of his reviews on the older models to reflect his findings on and his opinions of the newer models, while leaving much of his original review intact, especially the parts concerning video capabilities. Thom even left that part of his D3200 review about it having a Nikon sensor on his D3300's review, and we know the D3300 shares exactly the same Sony sensor as the D5300's and D5500's (I've wrote a lot about this subject elsewhere on this forum). The reviews that finally convinced me to buy the D3300 after my poor video experience with two different D3200 bodies (both refurbished, of course) were those by dpreview, were you can clearly see on their video samples how noisy the D3200 videos are even in daylight, while the D3300 samples are clean even in dark situations. Mind you, I have a lot of respect for Thom Hogan and what he has done for the benefit of Nikon the comunity, but I can understand him not being very exited about the Nikon consumer DSLRs and thus not giving those as thorough a review as he would bodies he himself uses, as he is a quite busy fellow.

Nikon brass should know what they are doing, and this year is a really very busy year for Nikon at the high end, what with the D5/D500 intros and the very probable D810 update as those are the low volume, high profit lines, just like they hope the DLs will become: these are cameras that generate a lot of excitement and bring lots of full price paying customers to pre-ordering lines at launch, so it's understandable for Nikon to concentrate on those first before they deal with the high volume, low profit D3x00 and 1 lines that mostly move after they are heavily discounted at your local Costco or Walmart. Also, the D3300 is and has been for quite some while the best selling Nikon DSLR in Amazon, right behind the Canon T5, so Nikon (and Canon) must be doing something right.

DaveyJ

I get my D7200 (another!) tomorrow! I sure wonder about the D3300 pass I made! My advice to those owning a cell phone or a D3100 is always......buy a D3300! One thing is for certain when the D3400 or D3500 comes out it will sport a higher precise! Another thing is that with Bill Me Later I could reconsider and buy a D3300 and the kit lens for a very modest $450 and that with a capture card and lens hood....and a UV Lens filter....would,give me yet another camera I could take to,the job site! A D3100 owner I talked to tonight...well at 9:00 pm now yesterday was very surprised the D3300 and kit lens is only $450! In many ways it is a fantastic value! Sine the new camera the blog is about will be $650 or more and hard to get for sometime, makes the current D3300 which I now have sent mine to a grandson.....look like a bargain for even me! In closing I sure wonder about the Thom Hogan assessment on just this matter??? But I doubt if he is tuned into this minor matter......which I do think is vital to Nikon and to at least you and I! Unfortunately this all indicates that everyone is taking the 4K and other matters very seriously! I. Myself fear banding and hesitation in video as the BAD not the extreme sharp or slightly for darn sure I do NOT want a video as fuzzy as say a D90! I Abe some very valuable subjects that I might not be able to ever video again on the soft D90 video.

DaveyJ

Higher PRICE not precise.......once or twice I have been told how to edit these comments.....the edit button on NRs is missed here a lot!

heartyfisher

DaveyJ said:

Higher PRICE not precise.......once or twice I have been told how to edit these comments.....the edit button on NRs is missed here a lot!

LOL! its on the top right (of the message) when you hover your mouse on the message. There should be a gear icon with the "edit" option.. :-)

CaMeRaQuEsT

DaveyJ, I'm a little puzzled about your video experiences with the D3300. I live in the tropics, temperatures here hover between 20°-35°C, with relative humidity levels never dipping below 50% and more usually reaching towards 99%, thus an easy environment for the cameras I use (not so much for the lenses, as this kind of environment promotes fungi growth on the glasses). Maybe the extreme environment you live in act upon your D3x00 bodies, thus producing your banding issues, whereas your D7x00 bodies are better built to stand those extremes? The jerkiness might be attributable to your using SD cards not fast enough to allow smooth video recording, thus leaving you with dropped frames. You should use UHS-1 or Class 10 cards or faster to prevent this. Also, the sheer weight of the D7x00 (almost twice as heavy as the D3x00) helps stabilize hand held shoots because Inertia, thus your videos taken with the D7x00 will tend to look less jerky. This is why I was hoping for the D7200 to have 1080p60 as good as the D3300 as the additional weight helps a lot in stabilizing a video shoot, but it also wears you down quickly, so again it's a toss. With the D3300 I try to compensate by being as still as I can, or better yet, by using a Zacuto-type finder (I use the Seagull copy, very high quality piece at a much more affordable price) and shoot with the whole contraption pushed against my eye, this also affords me a better assessment on what is in focus, but just barely as those almost million pixels on the LCD screen are still only half what is needed to properly define 1080. The VR on the 18-55mm VR II (my preferred lens for videos on my arsenal) helps some, but it sometimes "jerks" too when panning, as it lacks the "NORMAL-ACTIVE" switch on higher end VR lenses. I've read that the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC, while not being a very sharp lens for stills, has stabilization that is very suitable for video and is sharp enough for 1080, but alas the Sigma counterpart might be a better trade off for somebody who shoots as much stills as videos due to its higher sharpness, but you have to be aware of its current incompatibility with the D3300's Ver. 1.01 firmware.

DaveyJ

I use the fastest cards made. Nikon finds the SAME situation. I today talked to as high up in Nikon as possible. They say every test they make indicates D7000 series superiority. I will say I shoot in pretty cold and damp class, but we do a lot of work n the Caribbean.....such as the Keys. Our Keys guys rate the D3200 and D3300 far worse than I do! All that said.....$450 for a camera and lens as good as the D3300 and 1-55VR II lens is one of the new deals n photography. I do tend to ask every Nikon rep I ever talk to.....What Nikon do you like best.....answer seems pretty much D7200......My guess is there are more important things looming on our horizons!!!

DaveyJ

When does the D3400 or D3500 announcement happen as a guess??? Maybe in June???

DaveyJ

Now it looks like September Photokina is when the D3300 revamp is to be launched. Will it be a DSLR with say Snap Bridge, which means nothing to me...
Lot a mirrorless DX camera,that Thom Hogan thinks might happen? Nikon's numbers look bad on the market.....and the company is,restructuring .....DSLR share of,the photos market is sort of in free fall......leaving us a bleak entry level camera....the incentives to "sell" Nikon DSLR is apparently going bye bye.....sounds discouraging!

harlequin2

I do smile when I read these posts. The best camera is, undoubtedly, the one you have in your hand when that perfect photo opportunity arrives. Its not the gear, its the photographer!

tomanatura

harlequin2 : Of course, yes but only, if shutter mechanism isnt crippled...

ADKDaveyJ

Update: the Nikon D3500 and 18-55 mm kit lens just jumped about $60.00 Wonder if that is because they have less of a backlog thinking most would switch to mirrorless? The D3500 and 18-55 kit lens has been on sale for $396.00 for a very long time. Now in April 2019 the camera price went up at B&H to 450? That will virtually stop sales for the period until,they go back to the $396 price. What is Nikon thinking? That camera is one of the best ways to bring Nikon into use by new entrants, who will probably stay with Nikon.

CaMeRaQuEsT

Don't worry, Nikon does this every year after March 31st, which is the end of their fiscal year, and goes back to "normal" sales prices right in time for Easter. They might even go deeper with the discounts since they shipped only half as many DSLRs last February compared to February 2018, so they should actually have a larger amount of unsold stock in their warehouses than last year.

ADKDaveyJ

Yes I do know the end of the fiscal year situation, a lot from NR. Nothing Nikon publicizes themselves. When I get some money I can spend, limited as my later years reduced income seems mostly to support NYS extremely high farm taxes, I will get a Z6 set up. Sure do hope eventually some Z lens with very modest attributes get marketed. The reduced size and weight might make it a good field camera. The D3500 and 18-55 though is still among the best in that class I know of. It does make a good entry level camera I can recommend. But I always find myself getting another 7000 series DSLR especially as the tiny focus points make the D3500 very difficult to use on single focus point selection that I use even on high speed targets.

ADKDaveyJ

Nikon D3500 with TWO lens for $399. Unbelievable! Included are the 18-55 VR AND the 70-300 AF-P DX VR!!! It is actually about the best Nikon deal I have ever seen. Especially appealing is the fact that that camera (and the sale being so low a price) is the best to attract new entrants to Nikon and DSLR Cameras. They special a beginners guide and creative photography with the package. That is $450 off! I might even get one myself due to the value of that rig for high risk field environments. Like being out in a kayak. Our wading in a stream or river with fishing gear, etc. Frankly it is the best minimalist rig I have ever seen at that price point! Just how long this sweet deal lasts I have no clue. Probably wraps up next Saturday! Get out the word if you know amateurs on the outside looking in!

CaMeRaQuEsT

Beware it's not the VR version of the DX 70-300 that is included, but rather the non-VR version. Having said that, yeah, Nikon is basically giving away the 70-300, the bag and the online class while charging you the lowest price they've ever asked for their least expensive APS-S camera, so absolutely no reason to not go for it if the D3500 is what you have decided to buy.

mhedges

It's a great deal, no doubt. You will be getting a camera that image quality wise will be very hard to tell from the D500/7500 for a fraction of the price.

ADKDaveyJ

It says the VR version. Which seems unlikely. I have the VR version and it is excellent. It would give me two, which would not hurt my feelings.