Does the new 36MP Pentax tell us anything?

Pistnbroke

Does it say the end of the D810 is nigh...ie sony has done a deal with pentax at a good price on the 36MP sensor?
It tell me that Pentax have more brains than Nikon ....U1 throu U5 wow that's good.... better than that so called memory system on the D810.Dual SD cards and a GPS so at least the clock will keep time (essential for multi camera use) Problem is little lens choice ..nothing usable for weddings.
D80 at 24mp looks good too .

One_Oh_Four

I've got all the right lenses for the D800, plus I know that Nikon's in camera soft- and hardware that supports the "naked" sensor are pretty da*ned good. I hope for Pentax that they can make a buck but I wouldn't want to buy into a system from a manufacturer that commercially can't put a dent in a pack of butter!

Rx4Photo

I do like the price ($1795 USD) for the K1 compared to the $3,000+ for the Nikon body alone. I think yes, the D810 will be fading away and making room for something very special later this Fall. Nikon needs to recognize that they need to throw everything possible into the next rendition and not compromise it somehow.

PB_PM

I think the K1 says two possible things, a) the 36MP sensor sensor is no where near as expensive as Nikon would have us believe (i.e.. no reason for the D810 to cost north of $3k), 2) or Pentax is desperate and this is a loss leader.

Ironheart

Have we seen any pics? Proof is in the pudding... Remember, all of those so-called Sony sensors have Nikon's "secret sauce" in terms of the A/D converter and color rendition. Not to mention expeed. Bring it!

PB_PM

Keep in mind there is nothing overly special about Expeed either, it just a rebranded chip that Nikon sources from Fujitsu. I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax's PRIME IV processor comes from the same Fujitsu process that the Expeed does. Nikon does have that "secret sauce" for in camera A/D conversion no doubt, but does that really make the D810 worth over $1000 more than the K1? Mount issues aside. Hard to say, and yes pictures will tell the real story.

Ironheart

Yes, expeed is a rebranded and reworked milbeaut image processing chip made by Socionext (try to keep up however the hardware is a custom build for Nikon, and Nikon has their own image processing and manipulation algorithms not to mention firmware.
Is an Alpina just a BMW?
Anyway we can only speculate until we see images...

HockeyMan

It's also been 4 years since the D800 came out with the 36 mp sensor. The cost of manufacturing that chip must have come down by now so that Pentax can afford to sell it in a camera in the < $2000 range.

My gut feeling: Nikon said to Sony, we get that sensor for 4+ years, then you can sell it to whoever. At the end of 4+ years we exclusively get your new 50+ megapixel, super dynamic range, low noise, high ISO monster sensor for X years. People will see the new D810 replacement and say "36 megapixels is so 2012, Pentax is behind the curve". D810 replacement will also have the new autofocus from the D5/D500. Now who wants the Pentax?

The other thing is, you get what you pay for. Will the Pentax stand up to a beating? Will it survive a looooooonnnnngggg time like Nikons do - other than pros who blow shutters past the half million mark? Does it have more than one good lens? No, most likely not. Some people who lust for a D810, but can't afford it will buy the Pentax. And it may last them a while. Good for them, these folks wouldn't have bought Nikon anyway. They'd be foolish if they already owned Nikon glass.

The D810 costs what it costs because people believe it's worth it. Plus if you're not into warranties you can already get it for a lot less if you buy the grey market version or a refurbished one. My D800 is a rock. Other folks who love the D4/s will say the D800 feels flimsy. Oh please, if it was flimsy, folks wouldn't use it. There a boatload of pros who love the D800/800E/810. I'm not anywhere near a pro and the D800 has been worth and will continue to be worth every red cent. Let Pentax have the sensor.

PB_PM

It's also been 4 years since the D800 came out with the 36 mp sensor. The cost of manufacturing that chip must have come down by now so that Pentax can afford to sell it in a camera in the < $2000 range.

My gut feeling: Nikon said to Sony, we get that sensor for 4+ years, then you can sell it to whoever. At the end of 4+ years we exclusively get your new 50+ megapixel, super dynamic range, low noise, high ISO monster sensor for X years...

I doubt Nikon has that kind of power, not these days. It's more like Sony says,"okay we don't have a specific camera for this yet, so you can have it now." So the exclusive rights are more likely in this order, Sony's cameras, everyone else once Sony feels they milked it in their own gear as much as possible. We might see Sony giving them the 42MP sensor found in the A7r II, later this year in a D810 successor.

Sony basically has a corner on the sensor market (they recently purchased Toshiba's sensor fabs and division), the only real competitors left are Canon (if you can call it competition), Panasonic (m4/3s and smaller) and Samsung (APS-C and smaller). Samsung looks like it is going to bail, outside of the smartphone camera market soon, so make that even smaller.

PB_PM

Yes, expeed is a rebranded and reworked milbeaut image processing chip made by Socionext (try to keep up ) however the hardware is a custom build for Nikon, and Nikon has their own image processing and manipulation algorithms not to mention firmware.

Haha. Yes, true enough. It's not like I'd ditch Nikon for Pentax anyway, since I have far too many Nikon lenses and accessories. The Pentax would have to be 2 stops better in low light than the 24MP Nikon bodies for me to even spend 10 seconds considering it.

CaMeRaQuEsT

It's telling us that all current Nikon and Canon FF bodies will get a really nice price adjustment in the not so distant future

PB_PM

Yes, Nikon announced at the recent earnings meetings that they would be adjusting prices up 3% across the board for all products.

Pistnbroke

Please Nikon don't give us a 42MP sensor I want that 54MP with the 24MP DX crop .. 42MP is not enough of an advance ...........

NSXTypeR

I doubt Nikon has that kind of power, not these days. It's more like Sony says,"okay we don't have a specific camera for this yet, so you can have it now." So the exclusive rights are more likely in this order, Sony's cameras, everyone else once Sony feels they milked it in their own gear as much as possible. We might see Sony giving them the 42MP sensor found in the A7r II, later this year in a D810 successor.

Sony basically has a corner on the sensor market (they recently purchased Toshiba's sensor fabs and division), the only real competitors left are Canon (if you can call it competition), Panasonic (m4/3s and smaller) and Samsung (APS-C and smaller). Samsung looks like it is going to bail, outside of the smartphone camera market soon, so make that even smaller.

Why would Sony have such an awesome 36 mp sensor and end up using it in a Nikon product first?

And what sorcery does Nikon use to eek such performance out of a Sony sensor that Sony doesn't know already?

Nikon time and time again knows how to work Sony sensors over... and Sony just sits on them for some odd reason.

PB_PM

Sony is an electronics company first, camera maker second. Part of it is laziness, and thinking along the lines of "hey we are Sony, everyone's heard of Sony and will buy our products on brand recognition." Sony started with what they acquired from Minolta in the mid 2000's, and built up till now. Clearly they have come a long way from the release of the first Alpha DSLR, as the A7 series shows.

Sony gave Nikon the 36MP sensor for the D800 because they didn't have a camera ready for it, I assume it was designed for the A7r, but it simply wasn't ready for product at the time and Nikon wanted a new high resolution sensor. Thus Nikon, a good customer, received the product first. I don't think Sony is purposefully sitting on good sensors, part of it simply comes down to a total lack of meaningful competition in the sensor space. Why push out the best to a competitor, when they can hold it back and use it when they want to?

HockeyMan

I doubt Nikon has that kind of power, not these days. It's more like Sony says,"okay we don't have a specific camera for this yet, so you can have it now." So the exclusive rights are more likely in this order, Sony's cameras, everyone else once Sony feels they milked it in their own gear as much as possible. We might see Sony giving them the 42MP sensor found in the A7r II, later this year in a D810 successor.

Sony basically has a corner on the sensor market (they recently purchased Toshiba's sensor fabs and division), the only real competitors left are Canon (if you can call it competition), Panasonic (m4/3s and smaller) and Samsung (APS-C and smaller). Samsung looks like it is going to bail, outside of the smartphone camera market soon, so make that even smaller.

You're probably right, I was just stirring up the pot

But I wonder if there isn't a relationship in place where Nikon requests something and Sony provides it. Sony could have used the knowledge gained from building the 36 MP sensor to make the 42.

Regardless of the quality of the sensor for low noise and high ISO performance, I think it would not benefit Nikon at all to introduce a D810 successor with "only" 42 MP since Canon already has their 50 MP. We all know the MP numbers don't tell the whole tale, but the marketing people know that folks who only marginally follow photography would be puzzled by Nikon not keeping up with Canon.

heartyfisher

" I was just stirring up the pot " loses you credibility ..

Sony "the camera maker" and Sony "the Chip maker" are different entities that deal with each other as customer and supplier just like Nikon is a customer of SonyChipMaker. Of course Nikon provides specs and works closely with the SonyChipMaker engineers and tech people to design and develop their chips. of course they know what is on the way and what the Spec and performance will be and will have samples to test and play with.

HockeyMan

Wait a second now... there have been lots of posts on this forum that have stirred up things more viciously than me, that's kinda unfair. But you can call it however you see it.

spraynpray

HockeyMan made some good points hearty which did get good responses going.

I think if Nikon paid a chunk towards design and development of the Sony sensor they would have every right (and probably did) put some stipulations in the contract. Why wouldn't they? If Pentax had produced that body at that price three years ago, it would have hurt Nikon sales.

ThomasHorton

HockeyMan said:

The other thing is, you get what you pay for. Will the Pentax stand up to a beating? .

If Pentax history continues, yes, the build quality and actual weatherproofing of Pentax will make this a sturdy camera.

I can't even let my Nikon camera be in the same room when I watch the various Pentax torture videos on Youtube.

spraynpray

I see it has built in 4k time lapse. Nice.

HockeyMan

ThomasHorton said:

If Pentax history continues, yes, the build quality and actual weatherproofing of Pentax will make this a sturdy camera.

I can't even let my Nikon camera be in the same room when I watch the various Pentax torture videos on Youtube.

I guess it's just a matter of who is willing to go for a Pentax K-1 vs. the Nikon D810. I can't watch torture videos... they make me cringe a little too much. Like the now older torture a Toyota Tacoma videos. They lit one on fire, buried it in rubble, then let it cool, and subsequently drove it off. It made my stomach churn.

heartyfisher

A bit late to the game but I just saw some sample pictures from the Pentax K1. Looked at the specs in a bit more detail .. http://pentaxrumors.com/2016/04/07/ricoh-published-additional-pentax-k-1-sample-photos/

It is some serious kit ! I would say it would be a contender for any serious amateur moving from DX/APSC to Full frame. Especially Landscaper(especially Astro), still life and Portraits.

K1 vs D810 .. IQ no contest .. K1 wins hands down !!

K1 + Sigma 35 art !! probably a sweet spot combo.. ( although not for me :-) I dont use 35mm much .. I guess I could learn ;-) ) Start with that and you will have an awesome base kit to build a Pentax system on.

spraynpray

But for my financial commitment to Nikon I may well have had this. 5 'U' ranges for just a start.

I have found that with experience comes a much modified 'need' list. I thought I needed many shot bracketing - don't use it. Another is Wi-Fi - Nikon screwed up that opportunity by not allowing access to enough features in the SDK to allow it to be really much use.

Pentax were up there with Canon and Olympus back in the day, probably one tier below Nikon (although I'm not sure that was actually deserved back then) and above a lot of smaller companies.

I wish them well and hope they flourish in a difficult industry.

CaMeRaQuEsT

There is just one gotcha: apart from the 35mm f/1.4 ART, Sigma is not making any other newer FF ART lenses in K mount, and Tamron seems to be contractually locked out from offering their wares in K mount unless they OEM to Ricoh, so theirs end up more expensive than the F and EF mount versions while not including VC. Of course, there are all those Zeiss lenses out there, but at what cost?!?!?! On a side note, and again looking at their official samples, is it me or the 28-105 kit lens does indeed look sharper than the 24-70, which BTW looks to me like it's the softest of the bunch?

HockeyMan

@heartyfisher
"K1 vs D810 .. IQ no contest .. K1 wins hands down !!"

So I looked at the images. Can you explain to me what you see in these shots that make them hands down better than what you've seen from a D810? It's just not that obvious to me.