Is the Nikon 1 dead?

donaldejose

Best thing about the Nikon 1 system to me is the small size when you include body and lens. However, the 1 inch sensors have not been too good, especially at higher ISO, and Coolpix A shows how a DX sensor can be put into a small body. I sort of think the 1 inch sensor should migrate down the line (as has been done in the new DL bodies) and Nikon should introduce a new line of DX mirrorless bodies with compact (or "pancake" lenses) which can also use all normal Nikon lenses with a simple spacer. I keep thinking that for more "serious" work which may be printed at 16 x 20 inches DX is the minimum sensor size. For images viewed on cell phones, computer monitors, and printed up to 8x10 CX is fine. Heartyfishers photos above look great in this tread by how big could they be printed?

Ironheart

No, but I have use the DxO PRIME NR on N1 images, works wonders. I bet TOPAZ does pretty well too. There are also folks that are combining multiple images for NR with great success. Since these puppies shoot 60 fps, get a few frames that are nearly identical is easy (with static subjects of course).

WestEndFoto

Any software can make ISO 1600 look like ISO 100 if you limit the resolution enough.

adamz

Will try it later today. In bright light (iso up to 400) my v1 produces superb photos that I print up to A2 w/o any problems and w/o denoising, 800iso with some post processing.

NSXTypeR

I find it weird that the DL series has a real hot shoe while the Nikon 1 series has this proprietary garbage hot shoe.

TriShooter

I totally enjoy shooting with the Nikon 1 cameras and lenses like many here. It is a wonderful system for traveling by air, and everyday use. Not having a real flash shoe or at least a way to fire using a trigger is a major shortfall for the V1 series. I like the Nikon 2 body the best, and quality of the J5. The Nikon 2 is the fastest focusing in poor light for me but in good light the J5 is instantaneous.

Thomas Stirr thinks Nikon dropping the DL line is good news for the Nikon 1 line. I hope he is right.

JOINT J6 AND V4 LAUNCH ON THE HORIZON?

heartyfisher

Been happily using the J5 with my D500... works well for me ...

I was wanting to upgrade my V1 .. really nice camera but I learnt my lesson from waiting for the nikon D500.. (ie Wait but dont wait, get what is available, it will come when it comes, if it comes) ie got the J5 in the mean time (Like I got the D7200).. I will be upgrading that as soon as a V4/5 comes out (like I did the D500).

I still think DL version2 will come out in a few years time. (its too good an idea to let die)... wait for the next generation of the Nik1/DL 1inch sensor... probably in 1-2 years.

rmp

Talk about a stubborn old fool: I will upgrade when the V4 comes out. I guess old fools never learn. I just hope Nikon learned from the previous versions.

heartyfisher

What I really want is compatibility across the Cx, Dx, Fx range. V1 was so close to giving us that... then the Nikon1 range just went weird.

Ironheart

Happy V3 & J5 owner. Would love an upgraded body. Own almost every CX lens. Not sure what you are getting at @heartyfisher seems cross compatible to me...

manhattanboy

Ironheart said:

Happy V3 & J5 owner. Would love an upgraded body. Own almost every CX lens. Not sure what you are getting at @heartyfisher seems cross compatible to me...

I think he means full AF capability on the f-mount lenses.

heartyfisher

I meant systems compatibility.. as much as possible.. ( Happy V1, J5 owner !)

1) v1 battery is the same as D7xxx and D8xx D6xx/D750.. no other Nikon1 cameras has that. It would be nice if they brought that back.
2) Nikon1 Cant use any of the SBXXX flashes.. I dont really mind that much if they could CLS them.
3) More AF compatibility with Nikkor FX/DX lenses would be nice.. but its great that it can even AF at all, so I am kind of mostly happy.

paulr

Having owned all of the V cameras and most of the lenses which were not cheap I sold the whole system due to not been happy with the results in view of the cost factor. The ability to use other Nikon lenses with the converter made the problem of weight and size and the purpose of the V series, redundant .Also low light images were not really acceptable.If I want a light camera I use the CoolPix B700 One lens and nothing like the cost of the V series combined with its lenses.

donaldejose

I stopped using the Nikon 1 system and use the Coolpix A when I want a small camera and use the D5500 when I want a lightweight DSLR. I can "zoom" the Coolpix to 50mm by cropping for non-critical applications. For critical applications I use a "real" DX or FX DSLR.

heartyfisher

The J5 is working well for me :-) IQ is quite nice.. I had a look at the Coolpix A900 in the shop... (I think it has the same sensor as the B700?) its not bad but not what I am happy with in terms of IQ.. the J5 IQ is really quite nice.

spraynpray

What aspect of the IQ is a problem for you hearty?

heartyfisher

The A900? It is a nice little kit.. but compared to the Nikon1 the IQ is .. .. weaker. Specifically the moderately higher ISO needed for any indoor shooting makes noisy photos. And the N1J5 IQ is almost as good as the D7000.. its a substantial IQ difference between the A900 and the J5. I was very tempted to get the A900, looking at the specs... but playing with it hands on, clarified my understanding.

Ironheart

The CX "penalty" from DX is roughly the same as the DX "penalty" from FX. Meaning, around a stop and a half. A stop more noise, a stop less ISO, a stop less DoF. Pick one However, one man's (or woman's) "penalty" is another's "pleasure". Nikon didn't choose this blindly. The tradeoffs are clear, smaller kit, lighter lenses, and oh, they didn't just take away, they giveth. 20fps full AF, 60fps AF locked. Dual PD/CD AF, and 100% frame coverage for AF. There are also some "trick" modes for best moment capture, motion capture still, etc... the normal things you'd expect from a mirrorless.

The A900 and the B700 both use a 1/2.3" sensor. This is a 5.5x crop factor, and if my math is correct will incur almost a 5 stop penalty over FX. This is a two-stop disadvantage from CX.

This is all based on "physics" or really just "sensor area" for the light to fall on.

FX = 860mm2 = 0 stops
DX = 370mm2 = -1.23 stops
CX = 116mm2 = -2.90 stops
1/2.3" = 30mm2 = -4.91 stops

You just can't expect a 1" sensor with 28 times less area to produce the same image as a FX. Just for kicks, here's the iphone 6:

1/3" = 17.3mm2 = -5.64 stops

mauryr

I only now started making 16 by 20 inch prints with my new P800 epson. The images from my V1 in good light and moderate iso with good sharpening technique are outstanding. I bought the V1 as a diversion but it proved to be a very serious performer under the right conditions. I usually work with a D800.

TriShooter

Complaints about noise in the V3 and the J5 are no longer valid from my perspective. But, Nikon has got to stop crippling their consumer lenses though. When I bought the J5 I did not realize having only owned the V1 and the V2 that it would not work with most of my fixed and zoom lenses which was irritating considering the sensor's quality. The only regular telephoto lens I have that works is the new FL version of the 80-400mm. I think Nikon does not understand that people who use big lenses for BIF are not going to stop buying big lenses and FF cameras because they have Nikon 1 with a 2.7 crop which gives us an advantage in certain circumstances. We still like our full frame cameras.

I have all of the Nikon One lenses but still feel slighted by Nikon. I have an old Sigma 400mm that is razor sharp that will manually focus on the V2. Sometimes I think Nikon forgets they still have customers who know manual focus is the best way to find a fast moving bird flying below the treeline.

That said everything but my Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 works well with the V3. The V3 for stationary birds puts the megapixels on subject and produces some amazing results with my 600mm FL lens and with the TC-14.

Anyone who has not used the wide angle Nikon 1 zoom lens with VR is missing a treat. This lens inside churches and the like is sharp. The 32mm is also a real winner.

My major gripe against the Nikon 1 is the constant change in batteries. I have six of these - three V1s, and a V2, V3, J5 which means four different battery types which drives me nuts.

But I still love the Nikon 1 cameras. Putting a Great Blue Heron inside the frame of a V3 I am guessing would take about 155MP sensor in a full frame camera to give equivalent detail. I think the CX format has a great future for people traveling light and aging baby boomers who are loath to carry even an aps-c camera with the same reach around all day. Then of course there are the people who like shooting wildlife who understand how to get the most out of them.

shubhabrata29

Hearing from different sources, Nikon will be coming out with a Full Frame mirror less camera on it's 100th anniversary that will support the F-mount lenses. That will be the best mirror less solution I can think offfffffff.......

rmp

Hope its true. Hope its true, H....

BVS

shubhabrata29 said:

Hearing from different sources, Nikon will be coming out with a Full Frame mirror less camera on it's 100th anniversary that will support the F-mount lenses. That will be the best mirror less solution I can think offfffffff.......

I wonder if "support" means F-mount or adapter?

donaldejose

Hopefully, a DX or FX Nikon mirrorless body will not leave empty space where the mirror box used to be in order to use old lenses. The old lenses can be used with a simple hollow extender. All electrical contacts should be maintained. This would allow the mirrorless body to be thinner and would allow for a compact total body + lens combo if Nikon produced a few "pancake" lenses with a shorter flange to sensor distance. Add a few software driven feature improvements and Nikon can leap ahead of both Sony and Canon.

manhattanboy

donaldejose said:

Hopefully, a DX or FX Nikon mirrorless body will not leave empty space where the mirror box used to be in order to use old lenses. The old lenses can be used with a simple hollow extender. All electrical contacts should be maintained. This would allow the mirrorless body to be thinner and would allow for a compact total body + lens combo if Nikon produced a few "pancake" lenses with a shorter flange to sensor distance. Add a few software driven feature improvements and Nikon can leap ahead of both Sony and Canon.

I think for the reasons you mention Nikon should not produce a thinner body and just leave the F-mount intact on a new mirrorless camera.
Here are the brutal facts about Nikon:
1) They have no good pancake primes for either pros or consumers.
2) They have no mirrorless lenses for larger sensor cameras.

The main competitive advantage that Nikon could have over existing competitors, including Canon, is if they utilize the F mount and existing lens base. No one likes using adapters and for heavy telephotos the adapters could snap. To reduce the size burden, they should concentrate on designing lenses that sit into the camera, which is easier to do for a DX circle and harder to do for the FX one.