Stay on Nikon or switch to Canon or shoot with both system?

WestEndBoy

@Pitchblack.. just curious.. I have a friend i shoot with and he loves his canon! :-) so what are all these other categories that you consider that canon is better at?

Not sure if I can help the OP because I have no experience with consumer DSLRs and lenses, but here is a short list of ways Canon is better:
- autofocus: the 5d3 trounces the d800. Kills it. I kind of hate the D800 AF. I have far more photos with missed focus.
- responsiveness: the 5d3 is almost always more "ready to shoot" than the d800. The d800 feels laggy going through menus and viewing photos.
- exposure is usually more spot on (not that it matters much with the dynamic range of the d800)
- range of lenses and accesories (love the 85/1.2 II & 70-200/2.8 II especially)
- flash system (I've spoken at length about this)
- the camera software seems better thought out.
- general ergonomics from button placement to the great little Canon joystick.
- the grips were never a problem with my Canons, no matter the abuse. The rubber on both my d800s, my 24-70 and my 70-200 all have problems coming unstuck. Mind you, my gear really gets used, but still, never a problem with Canon.
- Nikon isn't as nice to its customers.

But as I said, image quality is a big win for Nikon...oh, and as TaoTeJared has said, auto ISO on Canon is lame.

Hello Pitchblack, there are a couple of things you said that have me wondering.

First, you think the autofocus on the Canon is superior. I am wondering if you can expand on that a bit. For example, I have heard that the Canon is faster in say, a situation where you are focused on something at a distance and need to re-focus on something closer. Whereas, the Nikon has a higher hit rate (which is in direct contravention of what you said above). I am not sure what is right and what may be right may depend on the situation (I notice that you seem to do both studio and sports photography, amoung others, so you probably have a pretty good perspective on this).

Regarding the flash system, I won't ask you to repeat yourself, but can you direct me to your comments. I have heard that the Nikon flash system trounced the Canon system until a few years ago and even now the CLS is better.

I would be interested in your thoughts.

Jeff

kyoshinikon

Having used both enough Let me put my take on this list

- autofocus: the 5d3 trounces the d800. Kills it. I kind of hate the D800 AF. I have far more photos with missed focus. (the 5Dmk3 is better as it is slightly faster and while its hit rate isnt as good as the nikon it's speed makes up for it)

- responsiveness: the 5d3 is almost always more "ready to shoot" than the d800. The d800 feels laggy going through menus and viewing photos. (I wouldn't say it is laggy but it does seem to linger more than my D700 or the mk3)

- exposure is usually more spot on (not that it matters much with the dynamic range of the d800) (only on skintones)

- range of lenses and accesories (love the 85/1.2 II & 70-200/2.8 II especially) (This is bull, Nikon has about the same amount of lenses and accessories. The specs are just distributed differently. Additionally both the 85 and 70-200mm listed are visibly not sharp wide open, the bokeh is nicer but both need to be at about an f/4 to equal the crispness of the Nikon equivalents the 85mm f/1.4 and 70-200mm and yes I habe used several copies of both on various bodies.)


- flash system (I've spoken at length about this) (I sit on the fence with this one. I personally love the CLS)

- the camera software seems better thought out. (This is very true)

- general ergonomics from button placement to the great little Canon joystick. (I thoroughly disagree but it is a matter of personal preference. The ergonomics is partially what drove me to nikon)

- the grips were never a problem with my Canons, no matter the abuse. The rubber on both my d800s, my 24-70 and my 70-200 all have problems coming unstuck. Mind you, my gear really gets used, but still, never a problem with Canon. (This is one area where canon is a bit better on the non flagship models however because many of their cameras aren't as hardy in adverse conditions so I have yet to know if this is more user than gear.)


- Nikon isn't as nice to its customers. (Id say that both canikon can be a pain Ive heard great and horror stories about both)


Now while this is my personal response I have used many canons and nikons for years many bodies extensively and I see patterns that even the D800 and 5Dmk3 fall into. While I personally am a nikon user I will say the 5Dmk3 has to be the best camera I have ever used in its class bar none. People raved about the 5Dmk2 and I never understood the hype. The Af was horrid, the low light sucked and was swampy, it didn't work well with many of the lenses wide open, etc. However all the things that did work on that camera stayed. The 5Dmk3 is a perfect example of the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" The D800 however was a huge letdown. While the sensor was amazing the camera seemed like many of the things nikon did to it were to cut corners on production costs. Infact the whole last generation feels like that. Maybe it is their way of dealing with the troubles at the factory. I dont know but something is off on ALL of their latest bodies except the D4 and I am not referring to button placement, sensor quality, or firmware...

Photobug

rbrylawski...thanks for posting that article on switching camera systems. Enjoyed it.
Some very good points. It's always interesting reading some one else perspective on a camera system.

manhattanboy

@jshickele
It was actually some failed photos where I was shooting with the Nikon and 910 and could not get the picture off but a companion next to me had zero trouble with his Canon. Once I was shooting a baby and dad in low light on a dance floor and couldn't get the focus to lock... He was so disappointed... as was I.

The posted article is great but I am not lucky enough to be shooting with the cream of the crop. My earlier point is that for decent prosumer gear, canon is significantly cheaper right now.

WestEndBoy

@jshickele
It was actually some failed photos where I was shooting with the Nikon and 910 and could not get the picture off but a companion next to me had zero trouble with his Canon. Once I was shooting a baby and dad in low light on a dance floor and couldn't get the focus to lock... He was so disappointed... as was I.

The posted article is great but I am not lucky enough to be shooting with the cream of the crop. My earlier point is that for decent prosumer gear, canon is significantly cheaper right now.

So reading your posts, you are thinking of going full frame and you are a "prosumer" (me to). Are the full frame cameras you are contemplating the 6D and 610?

PB_PM

The D800 however was a huge letdown. While the sensor was amazing the camera seemed like many of the things nikon did to it were to cut corners on production costs. Infact the whole last generation feels like that. Maybe it is their way of dealing with the troubles at the factory. I dont know but something is off on ALL of their latest bodies except the D4 and I am not referring to button placement, sensor quality, or firmware...

I agree, the D800 is just fidgety. I trust the AF on my D700 90% of the time. Focus works the way the manual says it should. The D800? 50% of the time, and even then it just feels hit and miss. While the D800 is more snappy, focus accuracy is just not there, even after I had Nikon make adjustments. The mushy 10-pin connector, and cheaper feeling external plastic on the D800's body also leave something to be desired. The D700 feels solid and extremely well made. Aside from the sensor the D800 just doesn't feel like as good a buy as the D700 did, in terms of overall product quality.

Msmoto

@rbrylawski

From Tamara Lackey's website:

"A Nikon-sponsored photographer, Tamara speaks at conventions on behalf of Nikon and was most recently the subject of a 5-part web series they produced about photographing portraits."

But, she does have an interesting perspective on the switch from Canon to Nikon.

manhattanboy

@rbrylawski

From Tamara Lackey's website:

"A Nikon-sponsored photographer, Tamara speaks at conventions on behalf of Nikon"

Thanks Msmoto! After looking at all of the incredible gear Nikon has gifted to her, I can finally understand why they are charging the rest of us suckers so much for equipment LOL

@jshickele
Yes, sort of... for me it really is not that much about the bodies but about the lenses. The 70-200 2.8 Nikon costs $2400 right now whereas the Canon is $1800. That's a $600 difference. Do that for one or two more lenses and you end up with a HUGE difference at the end. Sadly its enough where Canon could give you the $1400 6D for free just in the difference for the lens costs compared to Nikon.

Ade

@msmoto

I believe Tamara Lackey did not become a Nikon-sponsored photographer until after the switch. Her main sponsor at the time was Adorama. In fact there were some chuckles since right after Tamara made her switch to Nikon, she was featured as a Canon pro on the cover of EOS Magazine. Oops.

Tamara was the host of Adorama's reDefine web show. Her first guest on reDefine was no other than David duChemin (who had just switched to Nikon himself, before his accident in Italy).

Tamara switched at a time when many prominent Canon shooters were switching to Nikon. Aside from David duChemin, we saw Bambi Cantrell and Jerry Ghionis switching as well. Nikon was very smart to sign her. I'm sure as host of reDefine, Nikon let Tamara test out any gear she wanted before she made the switch.

Jerry Ghionis was a big Canon shooter when he won the 2011 SWPP Photographer of the Year award. The award prize was a Nikon D3s and a 24-70/2.8. The combo sat unused until Jerry damaged one of his 5Dmk2. He then shot with both Nikon and Canon systems before fully converting to Nikon. As with Tamara Lackey, Jerry became a Nikon ambassador this year as well.

Msmoto

@Ade

Thanks, I was just looking at her website and on one place it said she was not given Nikon equipment, and then on the other…well.

In any case, I live about 60 miles away and am in the area often, so I might just go see her and see if she has time to chat….

I will be up front about the image she has of herself on her website http://tamaralackey.com/about-us/tamara-lackey/ …. I find looking at the blunt end of a female elbow disturbing…. but what do I know? She is certainly more successful in photography than I am.

WestEndBoy

I found both responses very insightful and appreciate the time you guys put into them. I think that this thread will be useful to anybody trying to decide between the two systems.

spsfoto

Edit crap this was in reply to manhattenboys post

I'm a former canon shooter, I tried the dual set up for a while but now I've decided to commit to nikon while using an a7r for my favourite canon glass.

Just for comparison it's the opposite in NZ, canon lenses and bodies generally sell for more. When I got my 14-24 it was slightly cheaper than the 16-35 L II (it's back to $100 more now)

Re the iso/mpix I do a lot of night shooting with a d800 and find its high iso performance really good. I thought it had better high iso performance than the 5dm3? I also find down sampling the big files helps a bit with noise. Any system is going to find pitch black tricky to focus in.

Golf007sd

Those that have played with both system are the one's I would say the op should listen too. I have not played with the 5Dmk3 or any Canon of late, thus I lack any "valuable" input. What I can contribute is this: don't buy any gear due to it price at the moment. Bui it because it will deliver the result you seek for the job you are trying to accomplish. Once that equipment has been identified, then shop around to find a price that you find acceptable.

Ade

@Ade

Thanks, I was just looking at her website and on one place it said she was not given Nikon equipment, and then on the other…well.

In any case, I live about 60 miles away and am in the area often, so I might just go see her and see if she has time to chat….

I will be up front about the image she has of herself on her website http://tamaralackey.com/about-us/tamara-lackey/ …. I find looking at the blunt end of a female elbow disturbing…. but what do I know? She is certainly more successful in photography than I am.

LOL. Sue Bryce took that picture… she's one of the top glam photographers in the business. On average she's clearing like $20,000 in bookings per week.

Tamara Lackey is very personable… in fact the same day she blogged about her switch to Nikon, I mentioned that I've been thinking about switching from Aperture to Lightroom, and she tweeted me to jump right in.

manhattanboy

@spsfoto
Thanks for the input. I actually liked the Canon vs. Nikon guest post on the front page despite everyone flaming him for not panning the cars. For unprocessed jpegs the pics were pretty good. I am so tempted by the cheap lens deals for canon right now. If Nikon would only give us some sort of sale I could justify dropping thousands on new lenses. Look at the performance of Canon versus Nikon's 2.8 zoom:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=0&LensComp=621&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0
Does the Nikon justify a $600 price premium?

I may end up going Canon for full frame and stay with Nikon for DX distance shooting. Super excited about the possibility of a 300 DO Nikon prime, and would pay a price premium for that if it comes close to the sharpness of the current Nikon 300 f4. Hoping for DO, VR, and a shorter, lighter lens. Canon is also rumored to put out a 400 5.6 with IS. Their current 400 stacks up very well in sharpness to Nikon's 300. With Canon likely releasing that lens for the Winter Olympics, hopefully it will spur Nikon to finally do something. Let the race begin!

Golf007sd

@PitchBlack: +1 I fully support such a position.

@manhattanboy: Price has it own place, but that is just one piece of the pie when seeking photography equipment. Every buyer should look at both the primary and secondary market when purchasing. If timing is not an issue, then just wait for a deal to come along. Case in point, Canon's price on their new 200-400mm f/4.

Photobug

No way should someone have two systems...unless you have a bottomless pit for money.

PitchBlack +1

MikeGunter

Hi all,

I really think it's a bad idea to maintain two systems. You will get annoyed at having things not being interchangeable and when you'll have to buy something for one you won't be able to use it on another, be it a lens or an accessory like a flash. You should take a stand and make a choice. Neither is so much better than the other to justify keeping two systems.

I agree, it's a terrible idea to have more than one system for shooting, but I do have two systems. Besides the Nikon, I have a M43 GH2 for video that needs a run time longer than 20 minutes, which oddly enough, does happen.

And, as good as the video is getting in Nikon, I think the Panasonic GH2 is still better.

There are likely other reasons to maintain more than one system that are just as goofy. Some of my former students work at wonderfully weird places like the US Army Cold Regions Testing Center which has some legacy gear that is pretty 'interesting'. Of course, they regularly work at -40 below.

My best,

Mike

kyoshinikon

@kyoshinikon... I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat. I was specifically asked how I felt after I switched. I thought back at the things that I "miss" about Canon. The things that I miss are the 70-200/2.8LII (mine was crazy sharp and 2.8), f1.2 (which is, for 1.2, plenty sharp enough if you nail focus & no, 1.4 isn't the same, and I know there are lots of complaints about lack of good tilt-shifts), the ergonomics and the autofocus. Unlike you, I don't find the D800 to be any more accurate, and less so when using the outer focus points.

No problem... As I stated before the 5Dmk3 is much better than the D800 however that line shouldn't reflect on the whole brand. I have never used an 85mm 1.2 on the 5dmk3 but I shure used it on the Mk2, the 7D, the Eos1 mk2, and the 50D (different copies too) and while they were pristine in look they all suffered from soft focus... That is just my experience. The single 50mm 1.2 (and 3 Nikon 85mm f/1.4 on various nikon bodies) that I used however didn't at all. I have found that canons are sharper closed down than wide open wheras Nikons tend to do better wide open and often look bad at around F/16-F/32

manhattanboy

I really think it's a bad idea to maintain two systems. You will get annoyed at having things not being interchangeable and when you'll have to buy something for one you won't be able to use it on another, be it a lens or an accessory like a flash. You should take a stand and make a choice. Neither is so much better than the other to justify keeping two systems.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you shoot with both a DX and an FX camera?
Out of those who do, how often do you swap lenses between the DX and FX cameras?
Trying to gauge if I got an FX camera, how much overlap there would be given the crop factor differences in view and likely very different uses of the two cameras. I don't do studio work and for the most part just shoot action outdoors under great lighting, hence why the 7100 has served me so well and am patiently waiting for the new lighter, smaller 300 f4 DO from Nikon.


No problem... As I stated before the 5Dmk3 is much better than the D800 however that line shouldn't reflect on the whole brand. I have never used an 85mm 1.2 on the 5dmk3 but I shure used it on the Mk2, the 7D, the Eos1 mk2, and the 50D (different copies too) and while they were pristine in look they all suffered from soft focus... That is just my experience. The single 50mm 1.2 (and 3 Nikon 85mm f/1.4 on various nikon bodies) that I used however didn't at all. I have found that canons are sharper closed down than wide open wheras Nikons tend to do better wide open and often look bad at around F/16-F/32


Looking at the side-by-side's it looks like the 85 1.2 is okay in the center but gets very soft by the time it hits the corners. Interesting that it was soft even on the 7D, which should use more of its sweet spot. 85 1.2 is probably a brutal test for most focusing systems...
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=397&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=732&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0