Sony A9

BVS

Once you get past the shock-and-awe factor, I think the A9 may be less of a big deal than it's being portrayed. It's not going to kill Nikon or the D5 anymore than the A7RII killed the D810, or the A7II killed the D750, or the A6500 killed the D500, or the RX100 killed the DL24-85 , etc. Sure, it'll chip away a little more of Nikon's market share, but the D5 makes up what, maybe 1% of Nikon's camera sales (I'm guessing), and most of the target market for the A9 probably already bought a D5 or 1DXII in the last 12 months. Ultimately, I think the lower end series like A7R, A6xxx, and A5xxx are a bigger threat to Nikon in the long run than the A9.

manhattanboy

BVS said:

Once you get past the shock-and-awe factor, I think the A9 may be less of a big deal than it's being portrayed. It's not going to kill Nikon or the D5 anymore than the A7RII killed the D810, or the A7II killed the D750, or the A6500 killed the D500, etc. Sure, it'll chip away a little more of Nikon's market share, but the D5 makes up what, maybe 1% of Nikon's camera sales (I'm guessing), and most of the target market for the A9 probably already bought a D5 or 1DXII in the last 12 months. Ultimately, I think the lower end series like A7R, A6xxx, and A5xxx are a bigger threat to Nikon in the long run than the A9.

Totally agree with you.
What is interesting though about Sony's strategy is apparently just like the a7 series, there might be an a9"s" and an a9"r". This is what Thom has been asking Nikon to do for the D5 for a long time now; use a similar body but gear it towards a specific function.
I am kind of torn whether an a7r3 or a7s3 would significantly impact Canon or Nikon. On one hand the lower price versus the a9 helps, but on the otherhand if Sony does not use the new stacked sensor technology in those updates, then I think their impact against Canikon will be minimal as most of it will have already have been done with the mark II versions anyway.
The only thing interesting about the a9 is the stacked sensor, as this is what enable it to shot high fps, have minimal rolling shutter, and no viewfinder blackout. Failure of Sony to move their a7 line to stacked sensors could give breathing room for Canikon to respond before customers get a chance to leave. So a lot of what happens depends on how fast Sony is willing to migrate their stacked sensor tech down in the a7 series and into the a6xxx crop sensor series. The faster the migration, the more trouble for Canon and NIkon.

BabaGanoush

PB_PM said:

If you want to spend $300-$500 on batteries to get through a few hours, be my guest. That and the auto focus actually works for things that move. The mirrorless cameras I used couldn't even keep up with my niece, let alone a sports player.

You obviously know nothing about mirrorless and shouldn't be commenting on it. An NP-FW50 battery for my Sony A6300 will last me for 2-2.5 hours of shooting. Five NP-FW50 compatible batteries by third parties cost $50 on Amazon, which I have confirmed on-line. If you cannot afford to pay $50 for batteries (not that it would be necessary), how can you afford to buy good filters for your lenses? You're talking nonsense. If you want to defend Nikon, go ahead, but please don't make foolish statements. I shoot Nikon. I like Nikon. But I have actual experience shooting mirrorless and find it complementary to (and competitive with) my DSLRs for certain purposes that suit my needs.

Pistnbroke

if sony are supplying the sensors to Nikon for the upcomming mirrorless cameras then clearly they know what Nikon is going to produce....Perhaps nikon is not bothered about the A9 as there is no glass to use with it for sport...Happy to leave the D6 to the next Olympics and produce mirrorless versions ...the D810 is out of production so maybe the 46 mp D950 will be a mirrorless replacement.
As for batteries I can shoot 800 at a wedding on the D810 and the battery is still 80% so I dont think even a 50% reduction in life would bother me.
As has been suggested just a teaser photo from Nikon would give everyone confidence back .If by september its unsatisfactory I shall just buy a D810 for the wife and relax.

paulr

Oh ye of little faith, Its wonderful that Sony and Fuji are bringing great cameras to the table.The Nikon D810 was announced in June 2014 and supply began in July 2014. Nikon usually work on a 4 year cycle, so with one year to go Nikon are still working on its replacement.
Take your Time Nikon, just please get it working right, no call backs, for whatever you come out with in 2018.
The D8xxx series was a major step in camera design and I have faith in Nikon producing another world classic. in the meantime I love my D810 and thank other manufactures for helping Nikon make an even better camera.

NSXTypeR

This is definitely the "shot across the bow" moment for Sony and Nikon. Has Nikon been slow to put out products because of the 2 earthquakes it had? Who knows, but Nikon needs to put out new products, and fast.

For the time being, Sony still has some holes to fill in their high end lenses, so it's still a bit of a wash, but I think once Sony fills those high end lenses it, it'll be bad news for Nikon.

DaveyJ

I totally fail to see the advantage of mirrorless cameras. I am going to Bet I own more of them than most of you. The D500 and D7200 get used a lot by me. Since my guys shoot mostly video they use mirrorless cameras like RED and Black Magic, Sony, etc.. The D500 is easily one of the best cameras ever made. For that matter I still regard the D7200 as the best bang for the buck. The D7500 reviews are not in yet. However the "improvements" in that camera are doubtful at best.

tc88

The advantage of mirrorless is it's all electronics based. The battery doesn't last as long currently. But when the transistors are made more efficient, it can last longer. When the transistors are made faster, you can get more fps. But DSLR is pretty much at the best it can do regarding battery life and fps due to the mechanical part.

A9 is significant because it shows what mirrorless can do and how much improvement can be made over time. If I want to buy a camera right now, I will still choose a DSLR. But Sony can overtake Nikon in a few years with the trajectories both companies displayed over the last few years.

Regarding the lens, that's really not a problem. There are plenty of third parties that do a good job now. Besides Sony of course will make the lens sometime soon too. If they did the lens first, people will ask where the camera is anyway.

BTW, it's highly unlikely that such sensors will be sold to Nikon until it's old since it will have Sony Camera division's input. But that's the trouble Nikon got itself in when Sony is allowed to buy up all the sensor fabs.

Rx4Photo

@Vipmediastar_JZ which Fuji did you return for your stated reasons? I was actually looking at a pre owned X-t1 vs. the new X-100F as a grab and go. Thanks.

manhattanboy

DaveyJ said:

I totally fail to see the advantage of mirrorless cameras.

The advantage is simple: silent photography for moments when a shutter would be disturbing.

BVS

manhattanboy said:

DaveyJ said:

I totally fail to see the advantage of mirrorless cameras.

The advantage is simple: silent photography for moments when a shutter would be disturbing.

I think there's a lot of potential advantages, not all of which have been fully realized yet:

- Silent shooting (as noted by manhattanboy).
- Option to make the camera super small and light. Of course this doesn't matter for everyone, but the option is there at least depending on the target market.
- FPS only limited by electronics which are not limited by mechanical mirror physics. Nikon was doing 60fps stills shooting in Nikon 1 years ago.
- Less/no need to AF fine tune.
- Ability to see the effects of exposure compensation in the viewfinder before taking the picture.
- Ability to see focus peaking and zebras in the viewfinder.
- Easier to implement things like face/eye tracking using the viewfinder.
- Global shutter would eliminate rolling shutter/distortion effects, both with video and stills shooting.
- Easier to implement good video AF.
- Ability to shoot video through viewfinder.
- Eventually can eliminate the mechanical shutter completely / shutter never wears out.

This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. Of course, mirrorless (currently) has some disadvantages too (e.g. battery life).

heartyfisher

snakebunk said:

heartyfisher said:

Not sure why most people seem to think "a Nikon"="a DSLR" and "Mirrorless Success"="Nikon Failure". That is so illogical !

I think Nikon is too late when it comes to large sensor mirrorless cameras. I can definitely be wrong in my assumption, but why is it illogical?

Because.. Nikon makes photography equipment, not DSLR. Just like the last paradigm shift.. they were perceived as "slow".

They are basically engineers, they do their research and development, dot their i's and cross their t's. Measure twice, cut once. and then give us Stunning Photographic equipment. The reason why I like engineering based firms like Nikon (others? HP, Xerox, Pentax ) is that their products are usually something they can be proud of and as their customer I find that their products provide robustness that shows craftsmanship/dedication/and deep thought.

snakebunk

@heartyfisher: Ok, I understand your point. We'll see what happens. I just bought a D810 and before that the new Sigma 500/4. My plan now is to not buy any new equipment for a couple of years and see what happens. I am pretty sure my next new camera will be mirrorless, but which brand I don't know.

Vipmediastar_JZ

@Rx4Photo trully dont remember. Might have been xe1 or 2 and xt-10 Click here I like it but then again the DSLR was more of the better product to me.

paulr

snakebunk said:

@heartyfisher: Ok, I understand your point. We'll see what happens. I just bought a D810 and before that the new Sigma 500/4. My plan now is to not buy any new equipment for a couple of years and see what happens.

No Chance

autofocus

The fine print on the A9


1. As of April 19th, 2017
2. Approx. effective
3. Electronic shutter mode. At apertures smaller than F11 (F-numbers higher than F11), focus will not track the subject and focus points will be fixed on the first frame. Display updating will be slower at slow shutter speeds.
4. “Hi” continuous shooting mode. The maximum frame rate will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. Visit Sony’s support web page for lens compatibility information.
5. “Hi” continuous shooting mode, compressed RAW, UHS-II memory card. Sony tests.
6. “Hi” continuous shooting mode, UHS-II memory card. Sony tests.
7. Silent shooting is possible when Shutter Type is set to “Electronic” and Audio signals is set to “Off.”
8. 1/32000 shutter speed is available only in the S and M modes. The highest shutter speed in all other modes is 1/16000.
9. CIPA standards. Pitch/yaw stabilization only. Planar T* FE 50mm F1.4 ZA lens. Long exposure NR off.
10. At shutter speeds higher than 1/125 sec, smooth and blackout-free live view images are shown in EVF.
11. Compared to the front-illuminated CMOS image sensor in the α7 II.
12. Display updating will be slower at slow shutter speeds.
13. When the auto or electronic shutter mode is selected the viewfinder frame rate is fixed at 60 fps during continuous shooting.
14. Still images, mechanical shutter: ISO 100 – 51200 expandable to ISO 50 – 204800.
Still images, electronic shutter: ISO 100 – 25600 expandable to ISO 50 – 25600.
Movie recording: ISO 100 – 51200 expandable to ISO 100 – 102400.
15. In full-frame shooting, the angle of view will be narrower under the following conditions: When [File Format] is set to [XAVC S 4K] and [ Record Setting] is set to [30p]
16. Class 10 or higher SDHC/SDXC memory card required for XAVC S format movie recording. UHS Speed Class U3 required for 100Mbps or higher recording.
17. Sound not recorded. Class 10 or higher SDHC/SDXC memory card required.

PB_PM

BabaGanoush said:

PB_PM said:

If you want to spend $300-$500 on batteries to get through a few hours, be my guest. That and the auto focus actually works for things that move. The mirrorless cameras I used couldn't even keep up with my niece, let alone a sports player.

You obviously know nothing about mirrorless and shouldn't be commenting on it.

I have owned an used a number of mirrorless cameras (Panasonic and Fuji), so yes I know what I'm talking about. 2.5 hours of battery life is nothing to brag about, seriously. I can shoot for half a day on one Nikon DSLR battery.

I don't buy third party batteries because I've always ended up getting burned by them (not literally mind you). They either never work as well as the OEM, stop working after a firmware update, or do wonky stuff, like intermittent drops. Just my experience. Not everyone in the world is treated to low US prices either, so $50 batteries from reputable makers just don't exist.

Ton14

I wonder where the PRO sport and wildlife photographers put there fingers when using a PRO FAST 200mm, 300mm, 400mm, 500mm sport or/and wildlife lens. No problem at the moment, they are not made. Is it possible to make those prime lenses for mirrorless and small bodies?

Pistnbroke

Autofocus ..can you explain the first three words of 17....

paulr

I believe the A9 does not record sound. Most videographers use external sound recorders rather than the poor quality that Still cameras produce.

snakebunk

paulr said:

snakebunk said:

@heartyfisher: Ok, I understand your point. We'll see what happens. I just bought a D810 and before that the new Sigma 500/4. My plan now is to not buy any new equipment for a couple of years and see what happens.

No Chance

When/if Nikon comes out with a mirrorless fullframe, I hope they keep something similar to the current bodies (D5 or D810). The Sony camera looks small and not so nice to hold.

Pistnbroke

paulr......one site is telling me it has mic and headphone sockets ...I use a Tascam 60d and feed it to the camera..I have not got time to sync up the sound in multiple edits.
Still not buying it ...ha ha

paulr

Me too, same machine, I sync to the Atomos Blade . Old saying, If it moves Sony, if its still Nikon. But nothings for ever!!!

MegapixelSchnitzel

All I have to say is, "A9R." Bring it on... and let's see if we can cook an egg on it.

Pistnbroke

paulr..you are getting like a politician ..answer the question ..does it have mic and headphones..??