Nikon 16MP DX Mirrorless 28mm f/2.8 lens DISCUSSION

kenadams

Frankly, Nikon seems a bit late to that game.. better bring on something really good

Andrewz

Teo,
As usual I agree with you!

I just gave my P7000 to my father to use... might have to sell it to him to fund a this new camera! ;-)

donaldejose

I don't care what it looks like either. It just seems to me those old Leica rangefinders are such hallowed classics that a company may do well in the new retro look game to mimic that look. But I suspect Nikon will produce more of a Coolpix P7700 plus with D5100 "guts" than a new range of cameras. First up will be a fixed lens. Then it will come out in a year with a variable zoom (about 18 to 55mm range). If it sells well, maybe the next model will have interchangeable lenses. It all depends upon how Nikon sees this product: as the top of the Coolpix line or as a new line between CX and DSLR DX? If it is top of the Coolpix line the body will be all plastic and the price will be around $800 or so. If it is a new DX mirrorless line slotted between CX and DSLR DX, the price will be over $1,000 and the build will be more robust. Either way, it should be a desirable camera because of that DX sensor.

adamz

gimmie raw and regular hotshoe, price it on d3200 level and I'll be first in the que.

donaldejose

It is well withing the realm of possibility for Nikon to do just that, especially if they are essentially reusing the "guts" of the old D5100.

Godless

If it´s 42mm equivalent, I´m not interested.

What I would like to see from any manufacturer, would be a 20mm equivalent weatherproof pocket camera for travel. With a 16mp sensor equal or better than D7000 high ISO capabilities.

I guess I´ll have to turn to Fuji and get the 21mm equiv. set (X-E1+14mm) to get what I really want. Except that aint weatherproof. Damn.

Symphotic

I would be very happy with a 28 mm DX (42 mm equivalent) on a compact rangefinder type body with styling cues from the S3. I took some of my best photographs as a hobbyist with the Minolta CLE and a 40 mm f/2. I would only use this camera for fun, for work I'll stick to my V1s and D800s.

I'd really like to see Canon update the Canon 7 rangefinder with the f/.95 lens in digital, full frame.

TaoTeJared

It is well withing the realm of possibility for Nikon to do just that, especially if they are essentially reusing the "guts" of the old D5100.

I love how people think camera companies "reuse" sensors etc. If one ever looks at the "teardowns" or even Sony's updated sensor manufacturing lines, one would see that every camera has a different manufactured model - might be the same MP but it has some tweaks.

12-16mp seems to me to be a good sweet spot for the "every day" or Street shooter, documentary style of imaging. 12mp is a bit low for any major cropping, 16mp would be nice to crop to a 50mm look. From using my X100, I can easily say I never use the on body flash, every once in a while use my sb900 coorded to it. The leaf shutter with the flash can sync to 1/4000. With the internal ND on, that can make some great images.

donaldejose

TTJ: Didn't the D300 (2007), D90 (2008) and D300s (2009) "reuse" the same 12 mp sensor? Has not Nikon put the D7000 (2010) 16mp sensor into the D5100 (2011) and the 12mp FX sensor into the D3 (2007) and D700 (2008)? Does not Nikon have a history of using the same sensor in more than one body? That is what I mean by "reuse." It is especially suspect that Nikon is "reusing" the old Expeed 2 processor rather than the new Expeed 3 processor. Once the camera is out it will be interesting to see how many parts are simply old parts (tweaked or not) compared to how many parts are completely new parts. If, as I fear, this is going to be the top of the Coolpix line a substantial improvement in image quality (and reduced cost) should be possible by "reusing" old off-the-shelf parts and tweaking them as much as possible. Of course, cost aside, we all hope this is the first in a new line of cameras: "retro rangefinder type" DX sensor bodies as seem to be hot items for Fuji (X100, X-Pro1, XE-1). Tomorrow we will know if this is just a DX sensor in a Coolpix or a new line of camera bodies. If Nikon was creating a new high-level line wouldn't they be using the Expeed 3 processor in their design? Why go back a generation other than to "reuse" old parts to save money?

shawnino

Betting on the main blog is now putting rumours and patents together: 18mm f/2.8 patent => 28mm effective.

Could be useful for street and a decent pocket-landscape, but I remain convinced that if I'm traveling in this direction, I'm headed to Mt. Fuji's proven commodity.

Symphotic

Betting on the main blog is now putting rumours and patents together: 18mm f/2.8 patent => 28mm effective.

Could be useful for street and a decent pocket-landscape, but I remain convinced that if I'm traveling in this direction, I'm headed to Mt. Fuji's proven commodity.

You make a good point, but the 10 mm f/2.8 on the V1 fills that spot as well. I hope Nikon surprises us with something great. If not, I'm waiting for the X100s.

Msmoto

My suspicion is we are seeing only the first of a series of cameras. And, when they come out with an interchangeable lens model, an adapter for the "F" lenses, and focusing in continuous servo mode like on a D4...

There may be a trend for the DSLR line up from Nikon toward FX, with the D4, D800, D600. It could be the transition for Nikon is starting and the emphasis at the DX level will be mirrorless.

We will see...

TaoTeJared

TTJ: Didn't the D300 (2007), D90 (2008) and D300s (2009) "reuse" the same 12 mp sensor? Has not Nikon put the D7000 (2010) 16mp sensor into the D5100 (2011)...

No it is not true. I have seen you post remarks to that effect multiple times (where it wasn't the key issue) and just never corrected you. They all are entirely different sensors. If you fine the "teardowns" that people do to cameras, you will find that the sensors were different builds/models. D300's sensor could not handle video at all - so it couldn't be the same sensor. I saw teardowns that all of the rest of them did not have the same sensor. Realize though, in a "Design/Build/model period" Sony may have anywhere from 25-75 different sensors varying from 6mp to 36mp+(?) The 6mp one's are probably in their 9?th generation, while the 16mp may be in their 3rd, 4th, 5th? (Generally 1st two generations are just the test (concept to product) sensors.)
Some are optimized for video, some for photo, some industrial, and so on. Some in the past were designed by Nikon, but built by Sony. Other years, some are designed and built by Sony. All of them are different models though. Some people have this odd notion that they don't make 6mp, 10mp, 12mp sensors (or the like) any more. They make them in abundance now, mostly for industrial, surveillance, scientific, Those photo scanners that actually just take a photograph of one of your 4x6 prints - and the machine only cost $70. That's where sensors go to die.

Now the D3 & D700 supposedly did have the exact same sensor. That made sense, since neither had video and that the cost of FX sensors is/was so high, they increased production to lower costs. That is what Nikon said at the time.

It is especially suspect that Nikon is "reusing" the old Expeed 2 processor rather than the new Expeed 3 processor.

The processors are entirely a different part/story - you usually see only one upgrade per cycle (3-4 years) with the new Dx (D3/D4) system using it first, and then it is used down the line. That is the chip that processes data at "X" cycles per second (think of it as a PC processor). Remember basic economics, the more your produce X the cheaper per unit cost is. So if you want to reach a cheaper price point, use the processor prior to the new one. Also, lets say the cheap compact line is refreshed with the "goodies" from the model or two in-front of it. It doesn't need anymore "power" so it uses the older processor. Less design cost, less research cost, less production cost - that is how you can get a $150 camera.
It is no different than sharing the same shutter, meter, AF motor, rear LCD, Buttons, dials, etc.

Does not Nikon have a history of using the same sensor in more than one body? That is what I mean by "reuse."

Your use of "reuse" is a really poor choice and it incorrectly describes the situation. It implies that it was a recycled part or that it was old and should be useless. Try "multi-system" or "shared system parts" or something along that line. That is more accurate to what you are trying to say.

I haven't seen it in DSLRs. Someone once said the D50 and the D70s shared the exact same sensor - but I never found proof - can't say I looked hard for it either though. Between the Consumer bodies, (D40s/D60, D3xxx/D5xxx) I wouldn't be surprised as really they are trying to build those things as cheap as possible. I'm sure it happens in compacts all the time though. I am less concerned about consumer models - those are produced for the masses at the lowest price point they can do. And honestly, I'm never going to buy one.

I will wait to see the tear-down of this thing though. With Nikon having a bad fiscal year - I want to make sure it is just not a D7000.

donaldejose

TTJ: Thanks. That is interesting and gives me more respect for Nikon actually designing new products rather than simply finding ways to "reuse" off the shelf components in new combinations.

MsMoto: Yes, I too hope we are seeing the first of a new class of bodies. I guess I have just developed negative expectations of Nikon and therefor suspect a DX Coolpix. Reduced expectations from so much D400 disappointment.

shawnino

@Symphotic: agreed, almost: unless this mirrorless is a game changer, I think the X100 at clearance price will likely be my plan if I'm going to carry one around this summer. And of course it's not like Fuji X100 didn't have problems, it did, but that was sorted out by firmware and it's all in the past. The quality control problems with the D800 and D600, while not affecting me personally, give me serious pause about being an early adopter of Nikon bodies.

(Now the 50-ish f/1.2 with AF? I'll stay up overnight tapping "refresh" on my browser to be one of the first pre-orders if that's what it takes....)

CitizenD

though the concept seems very interesting, I cannot figure out how this could work in [very] low light circumstances. Loosing the comfort of the eye would really be a showstopper for me since I do a lot of underground pictures with very long exposure times. I cannot see how this could work (well, I can actually see, but I cannot accept it ) )

by the way, no news so far ? the expected huge sony announcement tonight (playstation 4) would probably scare one from rolling out any other "important" tech stuff ... !

Symphotic

Looks like cold red herring for breakfast.

TaoTeJared

though the concept seems very interesting, I cannot figure out how this could work in [very] low light circumstances. Loosing the comfort of the eye would really be a showstopper for me since I do a lot of underground pictures with very long exposure times. I cannot see how this could work (well, I can actually see, but I cannot accept it ) )

What do you mean by "Loosing the comfort of the eye?" Or why long exposure times would make a difference. IF it is a high end system and not a consumer J/V CX makeover then it would be no different than a DSLR.

I prefer to shoot my X100 is low light over any Nikon to date. The ability to shoot optically or OVF with a flick of a switch is great. In low light the OVF amplifies the image so you can actually see in the dark.