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Types of Photographers
WestEndFoto
Posts: 3,745Member
In another thread, I quoted the following, not knowing the source:
Amateurs worry about gear.
Pros worry about money.
Artists worry about light.
And VTC2002 was kind enough to provide the real quote:
“Amateurs worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light, I just make pictures… ” by Vernon Trent
And he also reminded me of a Rockwell quote that I have often thought had alot of wisdom:
https://kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm
So I will start. I like the quote that I provided because I can include myself as an "artist". Note that this does not mean that I am good. It is just that the purpose of my hobby is to create art, as follows:
https://www.flickr.com/people/westendfoto/
However, Vernon Trent's quote restricts me as I cannot call myself a master. Finally, I worry about light, equipment and money in that order. So I cannot call myself an amateur using this criteria, because gear is a VERY distant second to light.
However, under Rockwell's classification, I would consider myself an amateur. Not a rich amateur, I don't shot Leica. And if I was in that category, I would be shooting Phase One today, not waiting to see how medium format shakes out before I buy that.
So how about it. Let's hear some comments and perspectives on this topic.
Amateurs worry about gear.
Pros worry about money.
Artists worry about light.
And VTC2002 was kind enough to provide the real quote:
“Amateurs worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light, I just make pictures… ” by Vernon Trent
And he also reminded me of a Rockwell quote that I have often thought had alot of wisdom:
https://kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm
So I will start. I like the quote that I provided because I can include myself as an "artist". Note that this does not mean that I am good. It is just that the purpose of my hobby is to create art, as follows:
https://www.flickr.com/people/westendfoto/
However, Vernon Trent's quote restricts me as I cannot call myself a master. Finally, I worry about light, equipment and money in that order. So I cannot call myself an amateur using this criteria, because gear is a VERY distant second to light.
However, under Rockwell's classification, I would consider myself an amateur. Not a rich amateur, I don't shot Leica. And if I was in that category, I would be shooting Phase One today, not waiting to see how medium format shakes out before I buy that.
So how about it. Let's hear some comments and perspectives on this topic.
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Comments
Don't care about pro, amateur or artist classification all can be good or bad IMHO.
framer
Note, I like the photography process but not editing. I know editing would push my photography to the next level, but sitting behind a computer is no fun for me so I try to get as much right in camera as possible.
As long as it gave me some joy in producing it.. i can look at it and enjoy the image and the whole process of buying the gear, the people i met, the weather at the time I took the image, etc .. my "moment of light" (yeah the website domain name is gone.. I tried getting it a few years ago. )
Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.
framer
I spent some time looking through your Flickr images and your post of NR and I would say you fall into Ken Rockwell's Rich Amateur category for several reasons. Ken list more cameras than Leica including Nikon D3X that were relevant top of the line cameras when he posted the article in 2015. The D850 would most likely be on his list today, especially with all of the added gear to shoot 9 fps. Looking through your NR post you mention your gear and discuss the sharpness of your gear a lot. You mention spending over $100,000 on equipment in your new house for your photography. The average median income in the US in 2016 was $31,099. The average income for a person wit a doctorate degree was $101,307. IMHO, anyone that can spend the equivalent of a years salary for a person with a doctorate degree falls into the rich category. Another reason would be that you rarely mention the quality of being a artists - light in your post on Flickr or NR. You mention Blue and Golden hour but they are catch words. Photos taken during these times does not insure that you are capturing good or great light. Good or great light can be found any time of the day if one has the eye or ability to see it or happens into the situation.
I am in the @framer, @PB_PM, @mhedge, @heartyfisher and @NSXTypeR group and agree their comments. The joy of taking the photo, the people you meet and being able to share the experience with family, friends, colleagues, etc. is what makes photography for me.
On a side note, I completely forgot about the people you meet in your travels or daily lives. Honestly, the people I met in Japan were some of the nicest, most genuine people ever. I most certainly didn't take photos of them but I think that's the reason why I'll be back, hopefully sooner rather than later.
This is a gear site where the discourse on gear heavily outweighs the discourse on art. I also find it interesting that you make these comments in a post that I initiated on the topic of art (in a gear forum no less).
We stayed at the Hilton near the club which made walking photo expeditions a breeze. The subways were spotless, safe and easy to navigate and our Hosts were sublime. Lots of amazing architecture to shoot.
http://www.bluenote.co.jp/jp/
Tokyo should be on every photographers bucket list and if you are into Jazz the Blue Note is a great club.
Denver Shooter
Now I find myself working on a minor art degree in my free time (photography) and presiding over a small photoclub. When I went to Washington DC for the first time and had three hours of free time, I surprised myself by spending it in the art division of the Smithsonian, not the Air and Space or The Natural History (I have since visited those).
So for me photography is part of a revelation. I like things like that that challenge my pre conceptions.
said
And as you know, the brat in me loves making over broad statements with elements of truth in them. When I present to an audience in a professional context (I am a CFO) I am quick to qualify the over generalization. In other situations, if the right person bites, I take pleasure in sitting back and watching the spasms. Can you imagine how far and in what direction some people may take the above.
All I did was make a over broad statements with elements of truth to see if the right person bites, I take pleasure in sitting back and watching the spasms. and you apparently where the "right person" and chose the direction.
Your response to my post confirms my comment on the Mirrorless thread. Rather than present facts as to why you are not a Rich Amateur by Ken's definition you attacked me personally (on this thread and the Mirrorless thread). That's what bullies do when someone disagrees with them, attack them and make it their fault.
Your comment:
You are entitled to your view. I also respect that your view has remained consistent over the years. I do not agree that you respect my views or that I am entitled to express them when you make comments like this.
No where in my post did I say you were a mediocre photographer (the word mediocre is nowhere to be found in my post). I made a simple broad statement and you made the assumption. The truth is that I like some of your work and some I don't. You have some excellent work. I have two mentors and I like some of their work and some I don't and they know how I feel but they do not take it personal and I do not take it personal when they tell me that they do not like something of mine. The discussion about why they do not like some thing of mine provides an opportunity for me to learn and challenge to develop new skills.
This thread is not about Art it is about Types of Photographers. You have made it about Art.
I have never met a artists to date that discusses what brand/type of brush, brand of pencil or charcoal, brand of acrylic paint, etc. that they use to create their work. They talk about technique, composition, textures, styles, color, etc. All of which are elements of photography that when used with skill change a photographer into a artist. All photographers start as beginners and worry about equipment, where they go from there depends on the person and as Ken describes it as their sole. If your sole does not see the beauty around you or the things that other people cannot see you will never become a artist/master and it doesn't matter what gear you use.
I do not care to continue to engage in this conversation and will not respond to any additional comments.
Can someone recommend a forum that talks about art and not gear? It seems that having nice gear will prevent me from having that conversation here and/or it is impossible to talk about gear and art in the same forum. I will pretend that I am a rich amateur here. Hmmmm......meausurebator looks interesting. That will be two comments a year and I can focus on figuring out how to make art.
Sometimes though I just have fun and do get artistic
For me the gear does not have anything to do with what type of photographer I am, and I am mostly happy with what I have.
There are times when I get asked to shoot runway "look book".
For this style I am expected to take the same shot over and over, model after model all night long. The designer and stylist compose the look. The model chooses a pose. The lighting, model mark and even the spot where I have to stand are all chosen by someone else. I am expected to be consistent and document the looks of the show. Very little of "me" goes into these images. I tend to see myself as a documentarian on those nights.
Then there are other shows where I am allowed to shoot what ever I want.
On these nights a lot more of me comes through in the images. I play with motion and shadow a lot more. I'll try to grab un posed "candid" shots people the more human side of the event.
Then there are time when I'm shooting studio and get to call almost all the shots.
I can set the lighting and tell the models how to pose and what to wear. I even get a little crazy with the editing sometimes. There is a LOT more of me in those types of shots.
Then finally there is the stuff that I shoot and edit just for artistic self expression. These are 100% me.
So what kind of photographer am I? I'm still figuring that out I guess.
As a nature illustrator I am mostly doing portraits like this:
But I sometimes find an opportunity to do something different like a drinking turtle dove flipped upside down:
In future, any members who have a problem with another member - whether it be their style of posting (as in this case) or any other reason, they should take it to PM's and not post publicly. Anybody who can't take criticism should take it to PM. Any sign of things going awry and I will delete all the offending posts.
It ain't life or death, it's just photography!
After spending my G.I. Bill to take a BFA from Brooks Institute, I didn't have the guts to actually do it as a living. So, on the advice of a certain sheriff's captain from Monterey County, I became a cop and a gunsmith instead. Six months ago I retired as Head Armorer for a major PD - and now I have money to do what I want whenever I want it. I just never had the intestinal fortitude to open my own shop, take loans and throw it to the wind. Or apprentice with an established shooter. And in the 40 years since Brooks I've taken photos every day; sometimes I make some money; sometimes I don't. And I don't care. I photograph for me. I photograph like some people keep a journal, and it has been my visual diary of life.
My wife says I should start a website and throw it out there. Maybe. If the spirit moves me. If I don't, well, in a few years she'll have a lot of equipment, negatives and files spanning all the way from Vietnam through my police career (a documentary of the seedy side of Sacramento) and whatever happens in retirement.