Photokina 2018- Announcements

NSXTypeR

What are you guys most excited about from the new Photokina announcements? Panasonic/Sigma/Leica full frame mirrorless? Fuji medium format? Canon full frame mirrorless?

Or are you sticking to Nikon no matter what?

PB_PM

I'm interested to see how Panasonic's new full frame system goes, not having on sensor phase detect focus points might might weaker focusing, but if it means there is less colour banding that's a good thing.

NSXTypeR

PB_PM said:

I'm interested to see how Panasonic's new full frame system goes, not having on sensor phase detect focus points might might weaker focusing, but if it means there is less colour banding that's a good thing.

I find it hilarious that Panasonic decided to go full frame with Sigma and Leica and leave Olympus in the dust. It's weird that they argue m4/3 is amazing and been building lenses for it for the last few years... and then announce full frame cameras.

PB_PM

The ship that is m4/3s has sailed, because the size to image quality advantage just isn't there when you put it against more compelling options with 1" or DX crop sensors. Panasonic knows that Olympus is a tiny player even in m4/3s, and there is more profit in the high end market. Frankly the prices Panasonic wants for m4/3s cameras is insane outside of entry level models (the GH-5 is more than the D750!), and if they want to keep commanding premium prices, they need a high end product. They are going to sell what people want to buy, and now days it's go big or go home (sensor wise) and they know they can get pros who love the video features of GH5 etc to go full frame if the better performance it offers is there.

mhedges

PB_PM said:

I'm interested to see how Panasonic's new full frame system goes, not having on sensor phase detect focus points might might weaker focusing, but if it means there is less colour banding that's a good thing.

I don’t get this. I’ll take barely noticeable banding (in shadow areas lifted 5 stops) over crappy AF. If you can’t focus you don’t have anything.

PB_PM

I suspect Panasonic cameras can focus just fine, they’d be a tough sell if they couldn’t. I wouldn’t buy one to shoot sports stills with, but for video work I’d take them over Nikon any day of the week. I see no reason to limit my options to Nikon given that all the brands have new mounts. It’s a good time to consider all options, brand loyalty is not going to hold me back, but if Nikon has the best options I’d pick their camera, if they don’t, so be it. So far I see no compelling or must have features about Nikon’s options, just some “me too!!!” cameras. Other than a native (rather than reverse engineered) F-mount adaptor, they got noting up on the competition that would keep me in their camp.

mhedges

True you gotta think they will focus well. I don't know how they can do that without on sensor PDAF but I'm sure Panasonic has folks smarter than me.

As far as banding - I have taken a couple Z7 NEF files and brought them up in ViewNX-i 5 stops and haven't seen any. But I can't say that those are the same files where people have reported problems. I wish I could use those same files but so far I haven't found any. I'm suspicious this is at least partially due to imperfect NEF decoding, and that there will be a way to address this in software.

PB_PM

Banding seems to be a common thing with all sensors (Canon, Sony, Fuji) that have on die phase detect sensors, so I doubt software optimizations will fix it.

[Deleted User]

Elsewhere we are discussing Medium Format in the NR forum and I must say that while I am excited by the announced Leica S3 with 64MPs, and notwithstanding its other limitations, the arrogance expressed with Leica's insistence in maintaining luxury pricing without incorporating the ultimate in technology (other than in its lenses), means that fewer of us will be able to afford any Leica upgrades. So as long as the Panasonic S sensors are comparable or better than the SL, and with the ability to use Leica lenses (hopefully), it would seem that Leica has finally opened the door to relative affordability for FF (but not for Medium Format). Pricing of course TBD.

And while I like the concept of the Z Nikons with the optimum S lenses, I am not sure it can take the physical abuse of my D8.. series cameras. But, if I can use Leica lenses with the Z, it might serve as an SL substitute so to speak. Not that I want an SL but I would like to at least rent some of the SL and M lenses for variety of optical experience. In fact, I would love to use the newish Canon TS lenses on the Nikon Zs. Would Panasonic provide a competitive offering to the Nikon Zs? I guess I will sit on the sideline until Q1 2019.

Last, it seems that Leica never wants to give customers what they really want, but what Leica deems adequate, and on its own slow timeline. In that regard, many are still seeking a FF point and shoot like the Leica Q but with a longer FL lens, a Q2. Nothing happened. Lost opportunity for Leica. Rather they would produce several short run editions with modified mostly exterior features. At some point, this strategy will fail, that it, unless there are many gullible buyers. Is Nikon considering a competitive offering to the Q? Is the Z intended to bridge the "candids" gap in its line?

Here again, Leica is too slow to move. Hence the Tripartite agreement I guess. At least this agreement acknowledges Leica's inability to compete. It also preserves the "sanctity" of Leica as the highest end cameras without all the bells and whistles we would expect from other brands.

Why focus on Leica? I guess for many of us, the sleek, small, light, and quiet M and Q have little competition IMHO. Fuji and Sony, yes, but with limited lens choices. My creativity increases exponentially when I am not tethered to a tripod. Perhaps the Zs can fill that gap. We'll see how this all plays out.

Flip.