Z7-Z6 Lenses

WestEndFoto

I will take the Macro in 200mm please.

Msmoto

Hello, all, thought I would join the discussion after being somewhat absent for awhile. But, I am in agreement with the new 24-70 Z lens, that it is sharper than my 24-70/2.8 F mount. I plan on grabbing the new 14-30 once available. It is my thinking that the non-retro focus wide angle lenses are going to be stunning in all areas, especially less distortion.

Overall, I like how the Z6 operates as I discover how to do just that... LOL

rmp

The new lenses are GREAT! Thom Hogan in his review of the new 50 mm F1.8 said
"There's no mistaking this 50mm Z lens: it's the best 50mm Nikon has ever produced …"


That same statement holds true for the 24-7- f4 and I think it will hold true for all the Z-lenses.

See https://www.sansmirror.com/lenses/lens-reviews/lenses-for-nikon-z/nikon-50mm-f18-s-lens-revie.html

Symphotic

Msmoto said:

Hello, all, thought I would join the discussion after being somewhat absent for awhile. But, I am in agreement with the new 24-70 Z lens, that it is sharper than my 24-70/2.8 F mount. I plan on grabbing the new 14-30 once available. It is my thinking that the non-retro focus wide angle lenses are going to be stunning in all areas, especially less distortion.

Overall, I like how the Z6 operates as I discover how to do just that... LOL

Hello, Msmoto!

Besides sharpness and less distortion, oldsters like me appreciate how much lighter the kit feels when carrying it in the field!

BVS

These guys have a new video of the eye tracking, taken a few days ago at The Photography Show. Looks pretty sweet.

https://digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikons-eye-tracking-af-in-action?jwsource=cl

ggbutcher

Msmoto said:

Hello, all, thought I would join the discussion after being somewhat absent for awhile. But, I am in agreement with the new 24-70 Z lens, that it is sharper than my 24-70/2.8 F mount. I plan on grabbing the new 14-30 once available. It is my thinking that the non-retro focus wide angle lenses are going to be stunning in all areas, especially less distortion.

Overall, I like how the Z6 operates as I discover how to do just that... LOL

Clicked "Buy" on a Z6/24-70 f4 last night, hate to admit it was B&H's free XQD card that pushed me over...

Seriously, for my DX->FF migration it's 1) DR, 2) lens, and 3) silent shutter, in that order.

mhedges

Enjoy! Don’t discount the much better high ISO performance also. It was a real eye opener for me.

Ton14

@ggbutcher Relax, you did the right thing. You always can keep the DX ratio in camera with the FF's and get 3936 x 2624 - 21MP photo's, but with the Z6 you can also make 6048 x 4024 - 48MP photo's and what I read is, that the Nikon Z6 switch to DX automatically, when you attach a DX lens (cannot check it I don't have a DX lens).

Everybody talks about switching to FF, but I got a lot of extra possibilities, when I switched from the Nikon D300 DX to the D600 FF, of course the FF lenses are expensive, but mine last 6 to10 years.

I regret that I didn't immediately buy the Nikon D700 FF instead of the Nikon D300 DX many years ago, so nothing is changed about that lol.

PS. the SD cards are going to change completely, especially for photography. New very very fast CF cards are coming, not the CF we know at the moment, totally new and with the next firmware upgrade the Z6 and Z7 are also ready for those cards.

Of course I can buy a Sandisk 64gb for € 28.-, but the fastest (300mb) 64gb Sandisk SD card is € 110.- and the fast Sony 64GB SDXC SF 0 G UHS II card is € 125,- (300mb). These cards cannot compare with the wright speed of the XQD and the new CF cards are 3 to 4 times faster, so don't buy XQD cards if you don't need extra cards at the moment. At the end of the year they become cheaper as always.

ggbutcher

Thanks, can't wait to mess with it...

Back to rmp's original objective for the thread, this move to FF is also a move to mirrorless, which appears to me to also be a move to a different way of thinking regarding lens performance. Spencer Cox at PhotographyLife summed it up pretty well in his review of the 24-70mm f4, calling it "A Very Digital Lens". He characterizes the design "as a trade between sharpness and distortion", which to me as a software developer resonates because distortion is relatively easy to compensate (not going to call it "correction"...) in post processing by shifting the pixels around, whereas sharpness is at best an approximate artifice created from residual contrast. "Sharpness" in this case is about resolving the original light, which if you don't do at exposure can only be a statistical inference later on.

Oh, reading the above, it's a bit obtuse, but I'm going to leave it for those that might want to pick through my musings. What it amounts to is that the Z-mount is not just about changing the trade space for lens design relative to lens construction, it's also Nikon taking the opportunity to expand that trade space into what software can do to accommodate these lens design "either-ors" . Their thinking is indicated in how the commercial raw processors are handling the Z cameras: distortion corrections are provided in the metadata, and the software application of them in producing your JPEG is mandatory - can't turn it off.

So, this move is not just about a format, or a camera type, it's also about software. Note this isn't really new, from gitgo digital imaging has been about light capture that had to be post-processed - that's what demosaic is about. It's just that this hardware-software coupling is getting a little tighter with these new lenses...

WestEndFoto

ggbutcher said:

Thanks, can't wait to mess with it...

Back to rmp's original objective for the thread, this move to FF is also a move to mirrorless, which appears to me to also be a move to a different way of thinking regarding lens performance. Spencer Cox at PhotographyLife summed it up pretty well in his review of the 24-70mm f4, calling it "A Very Digital Lens". He characterizes the design "as a trade between sharpness and distortion", which to me as a software developer resonates because distortion is relatively easy to compensate (not going to call it "correction"...) in post processing by shifting the pixels around, whereas sharpness is at best an approximate artifice created from residual contrast. "Sharpness" in this case is about resolving the original light, which if you don't do at exposure can only be a statistical inference later on.

Oh, reading the above, it's a bit obtuse, but I'm going to leave it for those that might want to pick through my musings. What it amounts to is that the Z-mount is not just about changing the trade space for lens design relative to lens construction, it's also Nikon taking the opportunity to expand that trade space into what software can do to accommodate these lens design "either-ors" . Their thinking is indicated in how the commercial raw processors are handling the Z cameras: distortion corrections are provided in the metadata, and the software application of them in producing your JPEG is mandatory - can't turn it off.

So, this move is not just about a format, or a camera type, it's also about software. Note this isn't really new, from gitgo digital imaging has been about light capture that had to be post-processed - that's what demosaic is about. It's just that this hardware-software coupling is getting a little tighter with these new lenses...

Your points are good ggbutcher. I would however, like to point out one thing. Correcting distortion is going to impact resolution if you think about what has to be done to correct distortion. This will mostly be a factor in the edges and corners so will go unnoticed by most. I do wonder if Nikon's MTF curves account for this - probably not.


My point is that the software is helpful if applied lightly but can only go so far. This allows Nikon to ignore some compromises in lens design that they previously could not ignore. It also serves as a disadvantage to third party lens manufacturers. Nikon is not going to fix Sigma's distortion.

ggbutcher

WestEndFoto said:

Your points are good ggbutcher. I would however, like to point out one thing. Correcting distortion is going to impact resolution if you think about what has to be done to correct distortion. This will mostly be a factor in the edges and corners so will go unnoticed by most. I do wonder if Nikon's MTF curves account for this - probably not.

My point is that the software is helpful if applied lightly but can only go so far. This allows Nikon to ignore some compromises in lens design that they previously could not ignore. It also serves as a disadvantage to third party lens manufacturers. Nikon is not going to fix Sigma's distortion.

Completely agree. From the moment a raw file is opened for processing, each operation does something that also loses original data, be it color, tone, or resolution. Distortion correction particularly is an interpolation, which in a "stretch" of a row has to make up data, and that can only go so far before it becomes noticeable. Some operations are more egregious than others, and I think it is something we need to more specifically consider when moving out of the DSLR paradigm...

Your point about third-party support resonates, I'm watching the discourse on pixls.us regarding future support of Lensfun, the library most FOSS uses for lens correction. Such code can be fairly stable, but the work to define the database entries for new cameras isn't decreasing. Danged camera manufacturers keep introducing new products... I'm considering getting involved, but I'm facing a career event that I need to factor into my day...

Symphotic

To date all the Z lenses are in the wide to normal plus range: no telephoto lenses introduced yet. The roadmap doesn't show anything other than the 85 mm and 70-200 mm lens in the telephoto range. Besides that, there are no macro lenses in the roadmap.
No opinions here other than I'm fine with that for now, but I would like to see the 70-200 go on sale, but what of the future?

ggbutcher

Symphotic said:

To date all the Z lenses are in the wide to normal plus range: no telephoto lenses introduced yet. The roadmap doesn't show anything other than the 85 mm and 70-200 mm lens in the telephoto range. Besides that, there are no macro lenses in the roadmap.
No opinions here other than I'm fine with that for now, but I would like to see the 70-200 go on sale, but what of the future?

After the credit card recovers from the Z6/24-70, my next FF lens will probably be a 300mm F mount. AF-S, or even the AF. Cheaper than the ED but still nice and sharp; for wildlife, astro, just to mess around. If Nikon puts some prime teles in the roadmap, that may change...

mhedges

Well you’ll have to get the AF-S version if you want AF on Z6.

ggbutcher

mhedges said:

Well you’ll have to get the AF-S version if you want AF on Z6.

The only real itch I have at present is astro, for which I have to manually focus anyway... But I would really rather have the new one, much smaller...

ADKDaveyJ

Two of the most pre-ordered lens for Nikon are the 14-30 f4 and the 500 PF f5.6. Nikon is trying to produce enough to just fill part of the orders. The most single asked for lens on the Contact Nikon site is a 70-200 S f4 or even a variable f4 -5.6. They certainly will be better on the Z6 and Z7. Smaller, less money, and far better selling! I would order one today! The road map calls for a 70-200 S 2.8. It will not sell nearly as well as a more appropriate size. The 70-200 Nikkor 2.8s I owned in the past for Nikon F5 with big battery grip etc., were wrist breakers! Also dreadfully expensive! For a field mirrorless camera, a very difficult rig to use. I’ll never get another. Actually if Nikon did a Z 300, 400, or 500 f5.6 S lens it would sell better and create more revenue for Nikon. The 24-70 f4 S lens is perfect! Need more sensible lens on the roadmap not MTF wonders that have very limited sales.

mhedges

I gotta think one of those blank slots in the 2020 Z lens roadmap will be for a 70-200 F4.

In the meantime the FX 70-300 AF-P lens works very well on Z6. And its a pretty good price when it goes on sale.

ADKDaveyJ

mhedges, Question. I have quite a few 70-300 FX lens. Not the very latest. Which one have you used? Have you ever tried the 70-300 DX AF-P VR lens on the Z6? I think my latest 70-300 FX variable aperture F Mount lens are AF-S? I think they would autofocus?I know the latest DX 70-300 VR works but the camera switches to FX mode. The 50 mm 1.8 S lens is reasonably priced and is very highly rated. 2020 seems like a long, long way off.......

Msmoto

I am one who is gradually looking forward to the lighter, slower lenses with Z mount. My experience with the 24-70/4 is quite positive.
I am waiting on a tele with Z mount rather than purchase the new 500/5.6. And, my guess is, Nikon should be able to simply redesign the back end with a Z mount and offer it at about the same price... which I would grab in a heartbeat.
Waiting on the 14-30/4 for the Z... and, as this is not a retro focus design lens I anticipate it will be a killer.
Another point I am fond of with the Z6 is IMO the sensor has better shadow detail than any of the current bodies I have, D4, D800E, D500. I can pull out nearly HDR with one exposure. Will post tomorrow on PAD an image with this characteristic.
So let's all go spend another 10 large on glass....LOL

mhedges

ADKDaveyJ said:

mhedges, Question. I have quite a few 70-300 FX lens. Not the very latest. Which one have you used? Have you ever tried the 70-300 DX AF-P VR lens on the Z6? I think my latest 70-300 FX variable aperture F Mount lens are AF-S? I think they would autofocus?I know the latest DX 70-300 VR works but the camera switches to FX mode. The 50 mm 1.8 S lens is reasonably priced and is very highly rated. 2020 seems like a long, long way off.......

No I never tried the DX AF-P lens on Z6. I had it for a while but sold it off when I got the FX version, which was before I got the Z6. I was never able to get really sharp results from mine. I wouldn't say it was bad exactly but compared to say the 16-80 it was noticeably softer.

Your AF-S lenses will autofocus. The only ones that don't are the old screw drive AF lenses.

snakebunk

I am hoping for a 600/5.6 pf. I love the 300/4 and according to reviews the 500/5.6 is even better. It would be great if Nikon could make the pf lenses in both Z and F mount versions.

Msmoto

Agree fully with the "F" mount lenses being introduced with a "Z" mount.... I am waiting... and, this would seem almost a no brainer.... very little development cost (the words of someone who actually knows nothing about this), maybe even build the lens without VR, and have lenses we "Z" folks would scarf up in a moment.

WestEndFoto

Msmoto said:

Agree fully with the "F" mount lenses being introduced with a "Z" mount.... I am waiting... and, this would seem almost a no brainer.... very little development cost (the words of someone who actually knows nothing about this), maybe even build the lens without VR, and have lenses we "Z" folks would scarf up in a moment.

I suspect that Nikon will not take this approach however. I think that they will start from square one on lenses for the Z-mount, including telephoto. But I could be wrong......

retread

Seems to me that better image quality would be by stating from the beginning to build Z mount lenses. I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) that a combination of in lens and in body VR would work better in long telephotos.

ggbutcher

Msmoto said:

I am one who is gradually looking forward to the lighter, slower lenses with Z mount. My experience with the 24-70/4 is quite positive.
I am waiting on a tele with Z mount rather than purchase the new 500/5.6. And, my guess is, Nikon should be able to simply redesign the back end with a Z mount and offer it at about the same price... which I would grab in a heartbeat.
Waiting on the 14-30/4 for the Z... and, as this is not a retro focus design lens I anticipate it will be a killer.
Another point I am fond of with the Z6 is IMO the sensor has better shadow detail than any of the current bodies I have, D4, D800E, D500. I can pull out nearly HDR with one exposure. Will post tomorrow on PAD an image with this characteristic.
So let's all go spend another 10 large on glass....LOL

Pretty much the same perspective I've just developed shooting with the Z6 on our just-concluded mountain cabin trip. The 24-70/f4 is just amazing; 'course, to an old DX shooter, probably wouldn't take much... I do like having a bit more reach at my fingertips, so some sort of tele is probably in my future. I did mount my DX 18-140 to the Z6 with the FTZ adapter, but I haven't picked at those images yet. For web posting, Z6 in DX mode to me is just a head-start to 640x480.

Same experience with the sensor. Not much need for dragging tone around with a curve. I did do a bit of curving for my recent PAD post, but I was shooting into the sun.

I tried the HDR mode earlier today, and that just puts icing on the cake. Not real-estate-garish, just two bracketed exposures, and the combo JPEG looks quite nice, and I also get the NEFs to play around with.

I did use the D7000 on the trip, for the flash when required... otherwise, no turning back.