Z Mount Camera Wants

WestEndFoto

DenverShooter said:

If you want an almost square 50 MP mirrorless camera thats slightly bigger than a Z its available right now:

https://www.hasselblad.com/x1d/

Body only: $6.4 K @ B&H and a nice assortment of lenses.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260272-REG/hasselblad_h_3013901_x1d_50c_medium_format_mirrorless.html

Denver Shooter

Well, it is a 4:3. If those tabs at the top of the Z-mount get in the way of a 36mm by 36mm sensor, maybe Nikon could at least do a 4:5.

donaldejose

WEF: "maybe Nikon could at least do a 4:5" Yes, I think Nikon should think "outside the box" and consider a sensor not in the usual 35mm format. If it cannot be 24 x 36 mm both vertically and horizontally at least make it as large as it can be made in the Z mount so as to increase the pixels for square and other formats. The lenses must produce an equal circle of light both horizontally and vertically so a larger sensor top to bottom would have good light coverage. Instead of crop sensor, full frame and medium format sensors we could have crop sensor, full frame, intermediate format, and medium format sensors. New lenses are not needed, just new sensor and software. It should not be that expensive to do.

kanuck

I think improvements with the auto focus are going to be necessary. I don't think they will mess around with the sensor size now because of R&D costs. They will "tinker" with what they have I am fairly certain.

donaldejose

kanuck: Agreed. Likely Nikon will focus their limited resources now on five things with the Z bodies. 1. Fix AF criticisms and add eye AF with a software update ASAP to match Sony. 2. Get more S lenses on the market as per published timeline and be sure they are equal to or better than Sigma Art lenses 3. Get the Z8 (two card slot body with built in or attachable vertical grip) and maybe even a Z9 (D6 or D6s level Z body) on the market ASAP 4. Develop a new smaller and lighter plastic Z body for DX sensors 5. Produce some DX lenses in the S line. Once these items are selling on the market Nikon may have time to create a new sensor format. If they really want to take full advantage of the largest lens mount opening among camera companies they really should put a slightly larger sensor in their bodies which Cannon and Sony simply cannot fit. I read somewhere that it takes about 20% more sensor size or megapixels for the average person to notice the difference. If Nikon could fit a 20% larger sensor in the body (even if that 20% only applies to the standard 4:5 portrait ratio and not the full 35mm size both horizontally and vertically) it could give Nikon a huge marketing advantage to professionals shooting a lot of work which ends up printed in wedding books or in very large prints in that ratio. Nikon could distinguish themselves in the market by offering something unique which Cannon and Sony simply cannot offer.

We likely are at the "tipping point" between DSLR and mirrorless bodies. Nikon would like to ride that "wave" but they will have to address any criticisms ASAP and legitimately offer products which are top notch when matched up against Sony and Cannon in comparison testing on line.

Searcy

It looks like Pasasonic just put out the big mirror less FF that I expect Nikon to put out next. It is a big body with two card slots and a huge battery.


https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/1/18205762/panasonic-lumix-s1-s1r-full-frame-cameras-pricing-features-release-date

mhedges

Searcy said:

It looks like Pasasonic just put out the big mirror less FF that I expect Nikon to put out next. It is a big body with two card slots and a huge battery.


https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/1/18205762/panasonic-lumix-s1-s1r-full-frame-cameras-pricing-features-release-date

It looks like a upscaled Z series camera, I think, The lines and overall design are very similar.

I'm pretty impressed with the specs. Curious about AF performance, given it's contrast detection only, and their M43 cameras weren't known for great AF, at least for stills. They have a disadvantage compared to Canon and Nikon in that they don't have big existing user bases to sell to, and can't rely on adapting DSLR lenses till the native glass lineup fills out. It will be interesting to see how well it does.

PB_PM

The Panasonic S1 is an upscale Lumix DC-G9, which came out long before the Z cameras. Panasonic's unwillingness to use phase detect auto focus is rather odd, given the performance of older cameras. They could be running into patent problems.

snakebunk

For me the new Panasonic cameras look super interesting. Big and rugged with great ergonomics, a real grip, AF bird detection, and native lens support from three companies (including Sigma). But we need to wait for the reviews to see if the ai and lens models and all of that can make contrast detect only AF as good as Panasonic claims.

WestEndFoto

I hope that the S mount is successful. Good to have competition so that Nikon stays sharp.

PB_PM

You mean the L mount, it was introduced by Leica a few years back, doubt it's going anywhere.

WestEndFoto

Yes PB_PM, I stand corrected, thank you.

snakebunk

@PB_PM: I think it is safe to say that the L mount has already gone somewhere, from Leica only to three companies that all will make both cameras and lenses for it. How far it will go is another question, but I think the alliance was a smart move.

To be a little bit more on topic, a camera body and grip similar to the Panasonics is a z mount wants for me.

Ps. It is good to see more systems that uses the xqd cards, because if I invest in a D850 and buy cards I now have two mirrorless systems to choose between the day I go mirrorless.

PB_PM

snakebunk said:

@PB_PM: I think it is safe to say that the L mount has already gone somewhere, from Leica only to three companies that all will make both cameras and lenses for it.

When I said "not going anywhere" I meant that it is unlikely to die in the near future, and I agree with the rest of your point.

snakebunk

@PB_PM: Sorry for the missunderstanding. Glad that we agree .

Symphotic

One thing I wanted was a bag to carry my new kit. I couldn't find anything, so I made what I want.



Soft leather case, zipper closure, with a removable hard leather insert for more protection, two soft leather pouches for two lenses, and a leather soft case for the camera with a lens mounted. The strap is on quick release devices so I can take the strap off and put the case in my backpack.

WestEndFoto

#3

My third ask is internal ND filters. There is 16mm between the mount and the sensor, and while some will be taken up by the shutter, I have to imagine that there would be enough room to incorporate internal ND filters. There would have to be an internal mechanical mechanism that slid them in at the flick of a switch, either from the left, right or both.

The benefits are obvious. At the flick of a dial or switch, all the benefits of external ND filters could be achieved without the setup hassle or the need for step up rings. I take my ND filters seriously. Currently, I have Singh Ray filters in 3 stop, 5 stop, 10 stop and 15 stop in 77mm. Too bright to shoot my new Noct at 0.95 at noon? Just flick a switch and activate the 3 stop ND filter. Gone are my $2,000 in filters and step up rings.

This would also give me complete control of the exposure triangle by in effect, adding ND filters to the ISO, aperture and shutter speed.

If Nikon does not oblige me, when Nikon launches a pro-grade Z camera (the Z6 and Z7 are prosumer), the 1.8 primes in the Nikon lens roadmap will be my new landscape set and I will mount my Singh Ray's on them with step-up filters. This will not sell Nikon any lenses though, as I suspect that the 1.8 primes are my future landscape set. But I will pay another $1,000 for a camera that incorporates this feature. That is half the price of my Singh Ray's and way more convenient.

donaldejose

Some questions for discussion: how much room would it take inside the body? Does any current camera do this and if so, how? Is there anyway to do it electronically without adding moving parts? For landscape photography a graduated neutral density filter is sometimes helpful, perhaps that should be included either physically or electronically.

PB_PM

Adding a physical filter might seem like an easy thing to do, but where does that filter to go when you don't want to use it? In order for it work it would have in three or four pieces, like the shutter mechanisms, and all fold up. To have multiple stop gradients it would need more than one, yikes. Inevitably multiple lines in the collapsible filter would show up in your photos, or some kind of light leak would happen, over time as alignment starts to get knocked off just from the camera being used, and I can bet good money people wouldn't like the end results.

All the cameras I've seen that claimed to have built in ND filters didn't actually have a physical filter, it was just a firmware trick that unexposed the shot to fit the desired perimeters.

rmp

Will underexposing substitute for a ND filter?

mhedges

No, not when you want long shutter speeds to smooth things out, or for certain video applications.

I thought there were some high end video cameras with actual built in ND filters? They have a "turret" like mechanism ( think a Viewmaster) which rotates to place the desired (or no) filter in front of the sensor. I don't believe that solution is practical for FF cameras because the sensor is so much bigger.

Having an actual filter move in and out in front of the sensor seems to me to be very mechanically complicated, and will take up a lot of room. Placing a variable ND filter in there seems to me to be the way to go. You can vary the amount of light reduction, but the filter itself does not move. Of course, I think those are never completely transparent so you will lose some light even at the brightest settings.

PB_PM

Yes some large video cameras do have built in filters, but they are large. For that to work with a full frame camera, it would likely have to be larger than a D5. Not most people's ideal I suspect.

The problem with a variable ND filter is that they are full gas to achieve the required light blockage. Even in the transparent setting the gas can still add distortion to images. Higher end filters don't suffer as much, but it's still there. That is why hard stop filters are always preferable.

mhedges

Sorry what’s gas in this context?

DenverShooter

mhedges said:

Sorry what’s gas in this context?

Something you get from eating bad fast food??

Denver Shooter

spraynpray

Maybe there was a chance to put a filter holder in the FTZ adaptor?

PB_PM

mhedges said:

Sorry what’s gas in this context?

It's not petrol or gasoline, if that's what you are wondering. Variable ND filters, and circular polarizers have gases (only the manufactures know which gases are used) in them that making the transitions possible. As you turn the filter the different gases mix and created the light barrier the user sees. Transition glasses work the same way, it's a chemical reaction.