Mac vs PC

WestEndFoto

This is an interesting article in Petapixel:

https://petapixel.com/2019/08/06/lightroom-shootout-6700-imac-pro-vs-5700-pc/

Basically it says buy a PC, get a faster computer and save a thousand bucks.

I bought nearly an identical setup, except the graphics card is slightly inferior, about a month ago. I sure notice an improvement in stitching over my previous computer. It is an MSI gaming machine and it was about $3,000 US. I really have no speed complaints about Lightroom or Photoshop now.

I assume that the SSD cards are M.2 which is what I bought. M.@ is the way to go.

Do any users have any views or experiences to share on this?

PB_PM

I have a Mac (several actually) and a self built PC; not my first either. Many branded PCs, not just Apple ones, can be a real rip off, unless you don't feel comfortable building it yourself. Both work just fine, and do what I need them to do. Both are good for photo editing, one is just Slightly better. Both have 6 core 8th Gen Intel CPUs. One has 16GB of RAM, the other 32GB of RAM. One has a high end GPU, the other an IGP. One has 6 drives (1 NVMe SDD and 2 SATA SSD + 3 HDD), the other has one PCI-E SSD. One is more expensive than the other. Which one? I'll let people guess and see if they are right.

At the end of the day you make the choice based on three things, 1) your budget, 2) which operating system you like (if you even care, I do not), and 3) functionality, meaning does the computer do what you need it to do in a way that is efficient for you. Anything other than those things is meaningless fanboy talk.

Ton14

The answer is very simple for me.

I work with Windows, because I was a certified Window Professional, but .... It is very easy for me and for everybody to work on Apple hardware with Lightroom and Photoshop and Premiere, this border is gone.

Every 4 years (sometimes 5) I buy a new PC, which is good enough for photo editing with Lightroom and Photoshop. The price was always around € 1500.-, the one I bought last year was € 2400.-. You can make it so expensive as you want, but you still have to learn the software, which makes you the slowest component in the workflow.

Everything is as fast as the slowest component which became the hard drive and when you import your photo's it is the USB connection, what it still is (OK, ethernet).

Adobe never listen to its customers and never used the RAM on the video card, which has the fastest VRAM to work with, since the last couple of years they use it now (more or less), but not all of the cards and brands. For photo editing at the moment a Nvidea 1070-ish card is fast enough, but the Nvidea 1050 in my (gaming) laptop works good also.

The M.2 SSD's became much cheaper and that's the way to go. I have 2 x 1tb drives as work drives, a Synology 218+ (was 212J) as backup and cloud system, a gaming keyboard which I configured so I have 4 different keyboards available now.
I switch the keyboard with one click for Lightroom, Adobe, Premiere and Default.

I worked by IBM for 25 years and in the seventies in that time only the Macintosh was used in the graphic industry, conversion to another system was very expensive and difficult, that is changed as everybody knows.

mhedges

I was cheap and got a $300 refurbished Dell for my photo editing setup. I spent the money on a nice Benq monitor though. It works fine for me, but I'm only working with 24 mp and not in any hurry. Also I haven't gotten into stitching or anything intensive like that.

retread

A few years ago I had one built. 32 gig ram, SSD, Radeon graphics card, 8 core 4 gig ADM processor is the slowest thing on the computer. Cost me $1200 us and works great.

Out_of_Focus

Priority #1 for me is the operating system. Try as I might, I cannot use Windows.
I would think the most important aspect of the computer for photographers would be the screen... something I'm in the market for - any recommendations?

WestEndFoto

Out_of_Focus said:

Priority #1 for me is the operating system. Try as I might, I cannot use Windows.
I would think the most important aspect of the computer for photographers would be the screen... something I'm in the market for - any recommendations?

I have two Asus ProArt 32" 4K monitors. I am very pleased with them, though they are about $1,500 US each. See:

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Monitors/ProArt-PA329Q/

WestEndFoto

One thing I did notice, if you are doing your own build, you will save money. Possibly up to 50%. But there are numerous opportunities for compatibility issues, especially if you are pushing the envelope. I just settled for an off the shelf solution.

Ton14

@WestEndFoto Yes the compatibility issues and every 2 month there is better and faster

A shop here has perfect "off the shelf PC's" from € 400.- till € 5000.-, but you can change items you want, they advise you about that and put it together. This is what I did. Chose the box with the fastest processor, RAM and ports I needed and at that time available, changed the video card, put an extra SSD M.2 and 4tb WD harddrives for (automated) backups in it, these are not expensive, fast enough for backup and they last for at least 5 years. My old harddrives are here in a box on the shelf for who knows.

Of course the monitor is very important, you have a top set. I always doubted between 32" or 27". I Don't need 4k (yet) and it must have "hardware calibration in it", I bought the BenQ SW2700PT - 2560 x 1440 2 years ago for € 650.-. For this I had a 24 inch EIZO.

PS. I wonder when small amoled monitors will be made.

@retreat This configuration is still perfect for our photo editing with 24mp camera's, it only struggles with a HD combined and in Photoshop edited photo from 36mp camera's and higher.

mhedges

Out_of_Focus said:

Priority #1 for me is the operating system. Try as I might, I cannot use Windows.
I would think the most important aspect of the computer for photographers would be the screen... something I'm in the market for - any recommendations?

I'm happy with my BenQ SW2700PT. It's a 27" QHD monitor with adobe RGB etc.

Killerbob

I am an Apple guy all the way - Once you do Mac, you never go back:)

So I have been on the OSX/macOS path since 2008, where I went all out and got myself the top of the line Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro. Since then I have owned about every conceivable Apple product there is, and I'm still using either my Mac Pro (2013/ 12C / 64GB RAM / 2xD700) or my iMac Pro (2017 / 10C / 64GF RAM / Vega 64) at home. Out'n'about I use my MacBook Pro, or my iPad Pro.

I didn't choose Apple for the HW, but rather because I absolutely detest Windows, even Windows 10. Also, when it comes to mobile devices I hate (and I know that is a strong word) Androids, and love iOS.

So, the big thing for me has always been the operating system, and the fact that as long as you stay in the Apple sphere, everything just works.

snakebunk

@Killerbob: What do you hate about Android?

NSXTypeR

I don't edit much, but I definitely prefer OSX over Windows. I recently bought a HP laptop for my parents and the last time I seriously used Windows was XP. I was floored when I noticed advertisement for crapware games straight in the start toolbar. I didn't buy a laptop to be directly advertised to in the start menu. I have my problems with OSX too, but the OS I feel is much easier to use than Windows. I have a late 2012 Macbook Pro that still runs great because I added 8 gigs ram and a 1tb SSD.

Phone wise, I actually prefer Android over iOS, but you can't beat Apple on tablets. I currently use a Pixel 3 and love that I can customize a large majority of the phone. I have a 2017 iPad Pro 10.5. I can't imagine spending over $600 on an Android tablet to only receive 2 years of updates.

WestEndFoto

I don’t see advertisements on my not my company PCs. There would be a way to turn those off.

ggbutcher

NSXTypeR said:

I don't edit much, but I definitely prefer OSX over Windows. I recently bought a HP laptop for my parents and the last time I seriously used Windows was XP. I was floored when I noticed advertisement for crapware games straight in the start toolbar. I didn't buy a laptop to be directly advertised to in the start menu.

Hmmm, we have a couple of consumer Win10 tablets/laptops in the house, never seen ads in the toolbar. Seen 'em in the games themselve, however. I usually uninstall those upon purchase. Android in my experience is where the ads pop up in more places than one would want.

Regarding operating systems, for casual use they mean less nowadays. I just put my wife on a laptop running Ubuntu; she uses Chrome and Thunderbird, and those look and act the same on Windows, and probably Mac (we won't have Macs in the house, long story about arrogant salesmen in a large-organization procurement... ). But, if the programs used are the same, they all look and work alike in the main operating systems.

I wrote my PP software, and I compile it for both Linux and Windows. Works the same on both systems, only difference I notice are minor behaviors in the GUI widgets. Interestingly, I tried all sorts of compile/link approaches for the Windows version, and the one that works best is where I compile and link the program with Linux tools...

PB_PM

WestEndFoto said:

I don’t see advertisements on my not my company PCs. There would be a way to turn those off.

Indeed, when you first setup the computer you can turn them off. Only if the user leaves everything in default settings will you see ads. Considering how invasive the default settings are, I wouldn’t recommend anyone leaving their PC that way. Just another reason not to get a pre-built PC, since they do the Windows install and setup for you, and all they give you is a restore partition to put it back that way, without a way to install a clean copy of Windows. Most of the settings can be changed later thankfully. Some bloatware is there by default as well, but it is easily removed. In any case the fact that the system is setup to have ads in the first place is disappointing, and in the future we might not be able to turn them off.

DenverShooter

snakebunk said:

@Killerbob: What do you hate about Android?

Besides the fact it reports everything you do/use/communicate with/where you are at/who you associate with/what color your tee shirt is to the "Android Hive" where that data sold by Google/Alphabet to anyone who wants to pay for it, nothing...

Denver Shooter.

WestEndFoto

Bingo DenverShooter.

snakebunk

DenverShooter said:

snakebunk said:

@Killerbob: What do you hate about Android?

Besides the fact it reports everything you do/use/communicate with/where you are at/who you associate with/what color your tee shirt is to the "Android Hive" where that data sold by Google/Alphabet to anyone who wants to pay for it, nothing...

Denver Shooter.

Android is open source and does in itself not contain any functionality to report behavior to Google. Based on your conception you should hate Google rather than Android.

DenverShooter

https://articles.forensicfocus.com/2016/12/30/who-why-what-android-spying/

A quote from the above link:

“ Android is a Google OS. Google has access to every part of the device down to the last sensor. “To better serve its customers”, Google collects, transmits, stores and processes overwhelming amounts of data including personal and sensitive information. In particular, Google stores your browsing history (Chrome) and Google search requests (Chrome or any other browser if you are signed in to your Google Account); it syncs your logins and passwords, has access to your Gmail messages, contacts, call logs and text messages. Google Drive is available to store your files and backups, while Google Photos is there to take care of your photos. Google logs and transmits information about nearby cellular towers, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth networks, which helps the company track your location even if high-accuracy and battery-hogging GPS receiver is turned off.”

Denver Shooter

NSXTypeR

WestEndFoto said:

I don’t see advertisements on my not my company PCs. There would be a way to turn those off.

ggbutcher said:

NSXTypeR said:

I don't edit much, but I definitely prefer OSX over Windows. I recently bought a HP laptop for my parents and the last time I seriously used Windows was XP. I was floored when I noticed advertisement for crapware games straight in the start toolbar. I didn't buy a laptop to be directly advertised to in the start menu.

Hmmm, we have a couple of consumer Win10 tablets/laptops in the house, never seen ads in the toolbar. Seen 'em in the games themselve, however. I usually uninstall those upon purchase. Android in my experience is where the ads pop up in more places than one would want.

It was the bloatware games that were already preinstalled. I was able to remove them quickly, but it's disappointing that it's something I need to do.

DenverShooter said:

snakebunk said:

@Killerbob: What do you hate about Android?

Besides the fact it reports everything you do/use/communicate with/where you are at/who you associate with/what color your tee shirt is to the "Android Hive" where that data sold by Google/Alphabet to anyone who wants to pay for it, nothing...

Denver Shooter.

Google already knows a lot about you if you have a GMail account. It's scary, but I mean Apple also knows a lot about you too. Apple may end up using less of it, but I'm sure they're using some of that data as well.

snakebunk

@DenverShooter: If you use Google products like Chrome, Google Account or Google Drive, Google can use them to collect information that they can use to target ads. The price you pay is information. But Android is still open source. Unlike IOS.

PB_PM

Android is based on open source software, but Google has a lot of in house none open source stuff in there. In any case being open source doesn’t make something better for all end users. For tinkerers and power users Android is a powerful OS, but for the average person it is a security nightmare, and they likely don’t even know it. If I had an Android device it would have to be a Pixel, because the software/security update lag on third party hardware can be months behind the need.

NSXTypeR

PB_PM said:

Android is based on open source software, but Google has a lot of in house none open source stuff in there. In any case being open source doesn’t make something better for all end users. For tinkerers and power users Android is a powerful OS, but for the average person it is a security nightmare, and they likely don’t even know it. If I had an Android device it would have to be a Pixel, because the software/security update lag on third party hardware can be months behind the need.

Timely security and OS updates is exactly why I bought my Pixel 3. I definitely feel like I overpaid for it, I got it around launch and paid full price when they had nice discounts around Black Friday. The camera is definitely a nice plus. It's guaranteed 3 OS updates and I think an additional 4th year of security updates. Battery life is so-so, it'll definitely last me the whole day though and that's more than enough to get me home.

The openness and customizability of OSX is what draws me to it, and ironically iOS is the exact opposite of that. Locked down with very little customizability. I think they're getting around to that now, I have an iPad Pro and iOS 13 is becoming a little more free with dark mode and all. Android is definitely less secure in the sense that it's so open, and if you don't know what you're doing you can very quickly get yourself into a lot of trouble.