Z6,7 firmware update (Feb 2020) Come on persuade me.

PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
Autofocus improved . For dogs and cats ...I got no dogs or cats but the wife has 5 cats.
Do the improvements persuade me to buy a Z7 over my D850 for birds? ( putting the single card slot out my mind)
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Comments

  • Ton14Ton14 Posts: 541Member
    edited February 19
    Why should you buy the Z7 only for bird photography, I shouldn't if I had a Nikon D850, which is the best there is and you don't want to switch to mirrorless and I know that you are able to photograph the cats with every camera.

    One slot, if you want 2 slots, never buy the Z7. I use Snapbridge, WiFi and the fastest method "USB copy" to my phone or tablet (500gb available). I never had a problem with one card, all my compact camera's in the past had one as some of my DSLR's.

    This is my 2 cents.

    Eye detection is the best marketing trick invented, everybody jumps on it and it seems that nobody is able to photograph without "eye detection" anymore, what ..... "It focus on the eyelashes sometimes", well use f/5.6 ...., the only time it can happen (sometimes) is wide open. Eye detection is useful in the studio and works faster, not that much faster. OK it is available.

    What is also new with AF in this firmware.

    ‘Subject tracking for still shooting in AF-C mode has been modified to provide a more familiar operational feel similar to that of 3D-tracking feature built into Nikon DSLR cameras. To enable the feature, users can hold the AF-ON button or half-press the shutter-release button to initiate. Subject tracking disengages when users take their finger off the button, causing the camera to switch back to the original focus point before subject tracking began. Additionally, the transition from the Auto-area AF display to the subject selection display can be assigned to a custom control button, allowing for a more customized user-experience.’

    Limitation, but not for me, I like this system.

    Subject-tracking AF is still not as 3D-tracking on Nikon DSLRs, you have to toggle in and out of it from within Auto-area mode, and face and eye detection do not work when using subject-tracking mode.

    When the weather becomes better I will check it out. I never used 3D-tracking, so who knows.

    I jumped to mirrorless a year ago for IQ, lighter, many new things and fun.
    Post edited by Ton14 on
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  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,402Member
    I'll be trying it out in a couple weeks when spring soccer games start. Especially the tracking - I haven't really used the tracking AF for soccer, because I heard it wasn't very good. But I probably should have tried it for myself. Anyway I will report back.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,121Member
    I would stick with your D850. But if you had a Z7, I would say stick with that unless you had money to burn.
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    I am just waiting for that review that says Z ?? is as good as a D850 then I might add one to my hardware / replace the wifes D7200. I have a D3200 which sits on the desk for ebay etc (I call it crapcam) and the D850 and D7200 sit in the floor safe waiting to go birding. Sales of my D850 9 fps kit go well and are putting money in the camera account. Just dont want another crapcam.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,402Member
    I doubt it will ever be quite as good as D850 AF wise.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,162Moderator
    edited February 20
    mhedges said:

    I doubt it will ever be quite as good as D850 AF wise.

    That means photography takes a step backwards which I find it hard to believe.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,402Member

    mhedges said:

    I doubt it will ever be quite as good as D850 AF wise.

    That means photography takes a step backwards which I find it hard to believe.
    Sorry - I must have misread his post - I was referring to Z7 only. I'm sure future Z models will be able to equal and surpass D850
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    I was sitting on the fence ...then I read this

    Auto-Area AF still has the same flaw where it ignores a closer subject in the middle of the frame if it's already focused on something in the background.


    and fell off.(thanks Rockwell)
  • SearcySearcy Posts: 545Member
    edited February 21

    I was sitting on the fence ...then I read this

    Auto-Area AF still has the same flaw where it ignores a closer subject in the middle of the frame if it's already focused on something in the background.


    and fell off.(thanks Rockwell)

    I don't think Ken understands how to bring up the tracking box in Auto Area AF. After watching a few of Ken Rockwells videos I wouldn't put much stock in what he says. There's a pretty handy fix for that in the new update that I set up yesterday. It makes the Auto Area AF useful in a crowded room finally.


    Post edited by Searcy on
  • trolleytrolley Posts: 131Member

    I was sitting on the fence ...then I read this

    Auto-Area AF still has the same flaw where it ignores a closer subject in the middle of the frame if it's already focused on something in the background.


    and fell off.(thanks Rockwell)

    Pistonbroke,
    Are you going to TPS in Brum? Much as I tend to agree with you on the AF, Ricci (Nikon UK) showed me a stunning picture of a kingfisher in flight, taken by him with a Z. I think if you know what you're doing, you can make it work.
    And at the show, you can try out lenses & a Z6 outdoors for free
  • Ton14Ton14 Posts: 541Member
    Yes, I set it up yesterday and now I will use Auto-area AF more, the way it worked was useless for me, but now it is exactly what I want, very easy, fast and accurate.

    It seems that the normal AF is faster too (I know very subjective).

    I did not test it in dark situations, but @Searcy and @mhedges will test this also :).
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  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,402Member

    I was sitting on the fence ...then I read this

    Auto-Area AF still has the same flaw where it ignores a closer subject in the middle of the frame if it's already focused on something in the background.


    and fell off.(thanks Rockwell)


    Look there's no way in hell I would rely on Rockwell for an evaluation like this. His site is good for getting specs without being subject to ads but that's about it. And I'm not sure this is even a valid complaint anyway - you may not always want the camera to change focus just because someone new came in the frame.
  • SearcySearcy Posts: 545Member
    Ton14 said:

    Yes, I set it up yesterday and now I will use Auto-area AF more, the way it worked was useless for me, but now it is exactly what I want, very easy, fast and accurate.

    It seems that the normal AF is faster too (I know very subjective).

    I did not test it in dark situations, but @Searcy and @mhedges will test this also :).

    I tried to use the Auto Area AF at this party a while ago to try to make use of the face and eye AF feature.

    Holding Court

    The Z6 did what it was supposed to do but letting the camera pick a random face out of a crowd just wasn't useful to me and by the time I toggled around the joy stick to pick the face I wanted to focus on the moment was usually gone. There were some hits but mostly misses and I switch back to dynamic area focus before the night was over.

    The new and much quicker 3D Tracking style way to get into and out of the targeting box should make that setting much more useful. I may try it out at a friends party tomorrow night. I'll report back what I find.


    Also, I have only had my Z6 for a little over a year. When I bought the camera it didn't have a lot of the features and functions it has now. I'm encouraged that Nikon seems very determined to keep improving the Z6 and Z7. My hope is that they will eventually put out a Z8 with a larger D6 style body, two XQD card slots and the fast auto focus of the D6. I still find the Z6 body to be a bit small for all the button dancing my big fingers are doing these days.

  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    Well I got to be convinced it works right before I would buy one but at present I am not swopping 46 mp D850 for a 46MP Z7.
    Have been to the show in birmingham many times as its only up the road but what puts me off is sometimes they have a bus to take you carpark to hall but on one occasion they did not ..it was a 2 mile walk in the freezing cold wind ..maybe not.
  • Ton14Ton14 Posts: 541Member
    edited February 21

    Well I got to be convinced it works right before I would buy one but at present I am not swopping 46 mp D850 for a 46MP Z7.

    If I was in your place I should not swop it either. When you get used to it, it will work fine, but .... you have to put an amount of time in it to work with the EVF. In the first month I was not pleased by it (big understatement), it takes some time to learn all the EVF settings and features. I know that I can hear you here in Holland, shouting at it in the first month you use it :).

    If I was you I make a small plan what I want to test and rent it first for a weekend, do it with a very open mind.

    I still have a DSLR backup system, but never used it anymore for the last year. @Symphotic said it better a couple of month ago: my D850 stands on a tripod in the room and looks gracefully into the distance, or something like that, but much clearer :).
    Post edited by Ton14 on
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  • SearcySearcy Posts: 545Member
    edited February 22
    Ton14 said:

    Well I got to be convinced it works right before I would buy one but at present I am not swopping 46 mp D850 for a 46MP Z7.

    If I was in your place I should not swop it either. When you get used to it, it will work fine, but .... you have to put an amount of time in it to work with the EVF. In the first month I was not pleased by it (big understatement), it takes some time to learn all the EVF settings and features. I know that I can hear you here in Holland, shouting at it in the first month you use it :).

    If I was you I make a small plan what I want to test and rent it first for a weekend, do it with a very open mind.

    I still have a DSLR backup system, but never used it anymore for the last year. @Symphotic said it better a couple of month ago: my D850 stands on a tripod in the room and looks gracefully into the distance, or something like that, but much clearer :).
    Oh very true. I wouldn't spend much effort trying to convince anyone to switch to the Z system because it really may not be a good system for them. When someone gives me advice on what gear I should use my first thought is "Do they even know what I shoot?" I don't shoot outdoors. The fastest action I shoot tends to be runway models which are slow and gogo dancers, which can be pretty fast at times. Crazy, constantly changing lighting is what I have to battle most nights and the EVF is a game changer for me in that respect.

    Like Ton, I had a lot of regret the first month or so of switching from the d7200 to the Z6. I was missing a lot of shots that I knew how to nail with the d7200 and I started to think my decision to be an early adapter to the Z system had been a mistake. But the fact is, the Z system as it stands handles very differently than traditional Nikon DSLR systems. I was reluctant to abandon the single point auto focus of the DSLR and switch to other AFs but once I started using Dynamic Area and now Auto Area AF my hit ratio has gone way up. This taught me that the problem was not the Z6 camera but my ignorance of how to use it properly. Now that I'm starting to learn how it handles I'm loving it more every day.

    Will it work for you? I have no idea. It really depends on what you shoot and weather or not you have the time and the inclination to rethink how to shoot.
    Post edited by Searcy on
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    Well for me I set everything to what I want and then I dont touch it for years ..if its for the wife I tape up the dials so pi$$ing with buttons is not on ..I turn it into a point and shoot because I am interested in the picture in front of it not the buttons on the back . Ok slightly different settings for birds with feathers or birds with or without knickers (brides) but its just a thing on the end of my arm that records what I put in front of it.. If it take me 2 weeks to set it ..forget it.
  • trolleytrolley Posts: 131Member

    Well I got to be convinced it works right before I would buy one but at present I am not swopping 46 mp D850 for a 46MP Z7.
    Have been to the show in birmingham many times as its only up the road but what puts me off is sometimes they have a bus to take you carpark to hall but on one occasion they did not ..it was a 2 mile walk in the freezing cold wind ..maybe not.

    Get the train - cheaper & easier
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    Train 2 mile walk to Rugby station ..wait in cold ..stand all the way .get from train to hall ,repeat in reverse and spend money when I have a nice warm leased car at home . Train No thanks. When the american nation goes eco I might use the train until then diesel fumes rule
  • Ton14Ton14 Posts: 541Member
    edited February 23
    @Pistnbroke In your case, no need at all to go for the Z series, you have the best there is for the next whatever years (Nikon D850).

    The four main reasons for me were IBIS, IBIS, weight and fun (OK, greed). Sometimes I shoot with 1/6 sec. unbelievable. Just checkt it, 1/15 sec. is easy now.

    The new 70-200mm f/2.8 S has also VR in it and 1/15 sec. at 200mm is possible.
    Post edited by Ton14 on
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  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 868Member
    @Pistnbroke: What is it that you don't like with your D850?
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,916Member
    I love it except for the weight and I would like a few more POI for the birds. In truth, even a 60MP FX would not be a big increase. That's why I have not moved to the Z7 because there is no advantage that is not outweighed by the focus flaws. I don't buy into this you will get used to it or there is a workaround...
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 868Member
    Ok, I understand. I think if you are a bird photographer and want to go mirorrless right now, Sony is the best option. But I also think Nikon will improve on both AF and pixel count. It was a pity that they didn't add bird eye AF in the last update. Maybe next time.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,402Member
    I don't see bird eye AF happening soon. Does anyone offer that? I don't think there are enough POI in most cases for it to be practical.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 868Member
    @mhedges: As I understand it, Panasonic S1 and S1R have eye af for humans, dogs, cats and birds. See section "Panasonic S1R and S1 Autofocusing": https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_s1r_review/first_impressions
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