D5 is dead; get a D6 or transition to mirrorless?

Dinusaur

After 5 years of continuous use my D5 got some water damage recently and Nikon is not going to repair it. Their suggestion is to get a D6. I am debating whether this is a good time to transition to mirrorless. I was hoping that my D5 would last until Nikon was out with their Z9. Unfortunately it is nowhere in the horizon and I need to capture Osprey actions in summer months. I have a D810 that I can still use with all my Nikon lenses; this means going back to where I was 5 years ago in capturing action photos. Nikon's current Z7 is not in the same class as D5 or D6. So I am thinking of adding a Sony A1 with 200-600mm in my bird photography kit. It will be lighter than my usual combo of D5 and 500mm f4+1.4tx and will still get a good reach. I can then make decision later whether to get rid of all of my Nikon gears or get their Z9 body when it comes out for making use of my existing Nikon lenses. I wonder if anybody in this forum has gone through such a dilemma or contemplating to switch for one reason or another. Or is best for me to get D6 and use for another 5 years, unfortunately as I grow older the my Nikon prime lenses are getting heavier and heavier. My main interest is bird photography, stationary and in flight. Here's my D5 album on Flickr where I put some photos to give you an idea what I do as hobby.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60250038@N02/albums/72157719362555077

Capt_Spaulding

Wish I could help with your quest, but it and the quality of your images are beyond me. Very, very nice work.

NSXTypeR

Wow, your work is awesome! Shame to hear about your D5. Have you ever thought about maybe getting a D500? I know it's a little smaller and definitely not full frame, but it would give you a good deal of reach with your primes and maybe it would make your pack a bit lighter?

I guess you could think about used sales on some people who may be jumping ship to Z cameras. If you can score a low shutter count D500 or D5, you could potentially be shooting for quite some time.

Good luck on the camera hunt. I'm no pro, but I don't think moving to Sony cameras is a good idea as that's a lot of potential gear to shift. I don't know why Nikon would not repair your D5 if you're a willing and paying customer, but that seems about on par for Nikon, they don't seem to have great customer service.

Best of luck again!

WestEndFoto

You have very nice work. I suppose if I was in your position, I would use my D810 until the Z9 comes out. You would definitely hone your focussing skills.

Pistnbroke

Independent repair shop for your D5?

spraynpray

Water damage does tend to make cameras beyond economical repair so Nikon's attitude is understandable. If the D500 suggested above (economical stop-gap solution) is not what you want, maybe you could either get a D850 or buy a used D5?

PB_PM

I’d say get a Sony or Canon, no way the Z9 will match what the others are doing if past history is anything to go by. Not to mention native telephoto lenses being available, vs on a roadmap, which will come, out someday. Even if you can order a Z9 when it comes out it could be a long time before it gets in your hands anyway. You could be waiting till the end of the year or longer, given the current supply issues.

MrFotoFool

This is my two cents, but of course you will have to weigh all the opinions posted and decide what's best for you.

It may be worth a try as @Pistnbroke said to send the D5 to an indepent repair shop. I strongly recommend Tucson Camera Repair in my city, which is also an authorized Nikon dealer.

For an alternate setup I echo what @NSXTypeR says about the D500. I have two D850 bodies (my favorites) that I pair with shorter lenses, but for birds and distant wildlife I use a D500 with the 500 f/5.6 PF lens. The crop factor gives equivalent view of 750mm and the PF lens is much easier to handle than your beastly 500 f4 (though of course that's a stellar lens if you can handle it).

In wanting to go lighter I rented a Canon R5 and their collapsing 70-200 f2.8 . I took about a dozen pictures with it and shipped it back because I HATED it. The ergonomics are way off - the body is too small for the lenses (all mirrorless have this problem). If you are coming from a larger gripped body (D5) I can't imagine any current mirrorless will satisfy you. Also the electronic viewfinder was hideous. If you are considering the switch I would STRONGLY urge you to rent the setup you are considering before you make the leap.

Dinusaur

Thanks everybody for leaving comments and suggestions. I tried two independent repair shops around Toronto, Canada area and both refused to work on it citing that Nikon has stopped supplying parts to them a year ago. So I sent the camera to Nikon and they advised me that it cannot be repaired and suggested to get a D6, they offered me a slight rebate. Anyway, it is a lot of money to fork out so I am going to do more research and decide which way to go. As @MrFotoFool suggested I should try my hands on a new setup for test before committing to it. Cheers.

WestEndFoto

MrFotoFool said:

This is my two cents, but of course you will have to weigh all the opinions posted and decide what's best for you.

It may be worth a try as @Pistnbroke said to send the D5 to an indepent repair shop. I strongly recommend Tucson Camera Repair in my city, which is also an authorized Nikon dealer.

For an alternate setup I echo what @NSXTypeR says about the D500. I have two D850 bodies (my favorites) that I pair with shorter lenses, but for birds and distant wildlife I use a D500 with the 500 f/5.6 PF lens. The crop factor gives equivalent view of 750mm and the PF lens is much easier to handle than your beastly 500 f4 (though of course that's a stellar lens if you can handle it).

In wanting to go lighter I rented a Canon R5 and their collapsing 70-200 f2.8 . I took about a dozen pictures with it and shipped it back because I HATED it. The ergonomics are way off - the body is too small for the lenses (all mirrorless have this problem). If you are coming from a larger gripped body (D5) I can't imagine any current mirrorless will satisfy you. Also the electronic viewfinder was hideous. If you are considering the switch I would STRONGLY urge you to rent the setup you are considering before you make the leap.

I am hopeful that the Z9 will not fall into this small size trap and that seems to be confirmed with the development announcement. My Z 7ii bodies are only useful as a serious camera with the grips. I don't have the grip on one body that I have an FTZ permanently attached to, but that is not "serious" work, just fun screwing around with my AIS and D lenses using MF.

mhedges

Really nice work! You just got yourself a follow

If at all possible I'd at least see what the Z9 can do before switching to another system. Nikon has been fairly aggressive (by their standards) in their statements as far as it's performance. I'd be very surprised if it isn't competitive with what else is out there.

As far as the A1 - very nice camera for sure but ergonomically I can't see it matching up with a camera with a built in grip. There were some pictures posted comparing it to Z9 and R3 and really it was pretty sad.

Agree with the other folks on the D500. They are kind of hard to find new though. D850 may also be a decent choice for the interim.

photobunny

In your shoes I would go for a used D850 and grip as you already surely still have D5 batteries to give the magic sauce on giving that 9FPS until the Z9 comes out. Even when the Z9 comes out it still gives you a great backup camera.

If switching systems, the only sensible option is Canon with the R3. Sony only have a 400 f/2.8 and 600 f/4.0. Canon have way more wildlife lenses now and have some interesting ones on the horizon like a very respectably rumoured 200-500mm f/4.0 TC. Sony are likely going to continue to shove out sub 200mm lenses as those appeal to their user base.

DenverShooter

As someone who has D6 and shoots 2K to 3K images per event with it (usually with the Nikon 800 mm f/5.6 or the Nikon 180mm to 400mm f/4) let me give you my "two cents worth".

You can't go wrong with a D6.

The mirrorless gear might get there in a couple more generations but in my opinion it's not there yet.

Too much latency in the VF for fast moving objects.

Limited VF dynamic range.

Poor battery life.

Buy the D6 and in 4 or 5 years the Z9 MKII or MKIII will probably address most of those issues.

As always YMMV.

Denver Shooter

WestEndFoto

Actually, I have to agree with DenverShooter. Get some more mileage on your f-mount lenses with a mount optimized for them.

DenverShooter, thank you for that dose of common sense.

MrFotoFool

No D6 in Nikon USA refurbished as of now, but they have a refurbished D5 for 1500 less than the cost of a new D6. They also have a refurbished D4s that surprisingly is five hundred more than the refurfbished D5!

snakebunk

I am a bird photographer using a D810, so if I was in your camera situation I would be in my own. If my D810 broke now I would get a D850. My mirrorless plan for the future is to wait until the market is more mature. Currently I think Canon is looking good, but it will be clearer in five years or so. Not buying anything is often a good option .

Dinusaur

This is worth an update now that Z9 teaser is released. Following some recommendations that came through this forum I went ahead and purchased a D6, replacing my damaged D5. After a couple of months of using it I would say that it was the right decision specially during summer months when action photography was at its peak with breeding raptors around. It has some slight improvement over D5, specifically some control button options, two extra FPS and slightly better focus tracking. Here's a Flickr album with some of my D6 images.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60250038@N02/albums/72157719633807437

I also noticed an interesting phenomenon that I never saw in 5 years of using D5 and 500mm f/4 lens combo. In one instance I was shooting in burst mode with dynamic 9 point auto focus set up using D6 and 500mm f/4. Later I noticed that focus changed to single point, manual, in between frames without me doing anything - resulting in out of focus frames. When enquired, Nikon replied the following:

While shooting the burst sequence, if you accidentally rotated or moved the focus ring on your lens, this would activate Manual Focus, and would show up as (Manual Focus, Single Point) within the metadata. If you are using a Nikon lens, having it set to M/A will make it slightly more prone to this happening as Manual focus is given priority as soon as the focus ring is touched/moved. This can still happen if A/M is selected but it requires more torquing of the focus ring for the camera to give you manual control.

I don't necessarily buy it as it never happened through 400,000 shots that I took with D5 and the same lens. Also, I hold the lens using the foot and not the body of the lens, so accidental rotation is very unlikely. Since then it hasn't repeated again. Wonder if anybody else has seen this happening to them.

DenverShooter

I haven’t seen this with my D6. But I typically use it with the Nikon 800 mm or 180mm to 400 mm and those I don’t hand hold.

DaveyJ

I think the Z9 will be THE way to go. The revised FTZ adapter or even the current one will allow use of your lens. The Z9 will be a real game changer! I sure as heck would not get a Sony or a Canon. My son has the A1 Sony and it is very fast focusing and tiny. He uses it in an underwater housing.

The Z9 I trust will be awesome. Nikon is hardly sleeping at the wheel. They have come a long way and I have been getting excellent results with three mirrorless Nikons, and my D500 and even the poorly rated D7500 are quite amazing.

I have had water damaged cameras and they were SCRAP after that. Unless you are using extra protection like a UW housing they cannot be repaired. I lost three high end cameras that way as I shoot around water a LOT.

Dinusaur

This thread needs another update. Following DaveyJ's suggested above, I eventually acquired Z9 in July of this year and a FTZII adapter to make use of the F mount lenses on them. Despite my best effort after three months of using and tinkering with it I am about to pull the plug on it. Its focus tracking under challenging condition (e.g. messy background) is way worse than D6 - maybe it has got to do with me not having a native Z mount lens; however, I am disappointed, nonetheless. During peak Osprey dive season for us between July and Sept, in a sample of 2534 Osprey dive photos taken using Z9, 47% were out of focus. The worst part was most out of focus shots came when it mattered the most, just as the Osprey was about to enter water to catch a fish (e.g. see two images below). These are just as recorded in the camera.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpvmCdsgzaDyXxtbrwQa78c6mhZ?e=duohjn
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpvmCdsgzaDyX2m4EIe_IKFiJuf?e=qgIzSd

Now compare two similar images taken using D6 at the same location and approximately from the same distance, a week later.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpvmCdsgzaDyX5FUdGove-hZxvw?e=MPPut6
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpvmCdsgzaDyX_IsNqTB2HPfHbP?e=P7RwYd

D6 kept the bird in focus whereas Z9 didn't. And this repeated a few times, casting doubt of using Z9 for Osprey dives at this location. Yes, D6 isn't perfect, under these circumstances D6 had 32% out of focus shots compared to 47% with Z9. Ok, may be this 15% difference is expected given that D6 is about 17% higher in price. I am now glad that I didn't fully transition to Nikon mirrorless arena when D5 died on me. So, if you have D5 or D6, don't give them up yet; hopefully in future firmware upgrade Z9 focus tracking will be better.

spraynpray

@Dinusaur - Before you give up entirely, don't you think it is worth renting the Z equivalent lens and trying again?

Pistnbroke

I have read of a few people having a battle with the Z9.
Why not put your problem and images on Backcountry gallery and see what setting advice you get.

I keep looking on back country gallery and dont see your request for help....?

Dinusaur

Thanks spraynpray and Pistnbroke for taking time to suggest and comment.

To spraynpray, no I haven't entirely given up on Z9, latest firmware (3.0) upgrade seems to have improved its focus tracking ability. I also acquired a 100-400mm z lens to try out. However, since the Ospreys have left our shores, can't really test under the same condition.

To Pistnbroke, sorry I am not familiar with Backcountry gallery - I'll look up.

spraynpray

Let us know how you get on. There are a few Z9 owners on here that haven't complained. Maybe your usage is different. When I looked at your images it struck me the subject was quite small in the frame which is a whole different degree of magnitude of difficulty than if you had used a longer lens. We had a member on here who took stunning full frame shots of Ospreys catching/and carrying fishes. I can't remember his name now, it would be good if he chimed in with some tips.

colorAZeta

What's your experience with the Z9 in really dark scenes of abrupt & fast action, compared to D5 & D6?
Due to pandemic issues, I had no direct trials with the D6 nor Z9, so real experience from users' base is pretty welcome.

At the very end of the page in this link, a slight crop of a rushed image, picturing running wild boars at the rising moon, taken with a D5 and 600mm+TC17eII (1000mm f6.7) on monopod+tilting head, 1/400s, VR on and at Hi 1.3, about 229880 crazy ISO... you should push down 3 stops to get a similar darkness to my scene, I was not easily able to see at naked eye the black spot of the wild boars running on the dark coal grey of the grass field, not to think about maneuvering a 1000mm in the total darkness... but, somehow, with the DSLR I was able to get a reasonable shot, on which I can count 10 wild boars happily running under the moon to keep them warm!
I doubt the Z9+Z600TC (at maximum 840/5.6, the TC 1.7x is missing!) would have served me better in this extremely dark situation, as the Z9 AF works better with the right exposure, an the Z9 is limited to 102kISO at Hi2, so here would have been highly underexposed and plenty of noise; plus, 47MP are useless here in darkness. May be an R3, more tuned to darkness... So the Z9 might be not the advancement of the D5/D6 line, in my usage at least, I see the Z9 more like a D6X, a gripped D850, tuned to high resolution in good light.

I have seen on this thread some people with experience on these pro bodies. Please share your point of view in using each in darkness.

colorAZeta

I can now add pictures taken with a Z9 and D6 in extremely dark conditions, as it was inside an old church at the launch of the Z8 in June 2023. I thank Nikon Italy (Nital) for letting us use all the cameras there available, especially the Z8/Z9/D6, which I compared with the D850 and D5.

On both Z9 and D6 cameras, the 300/4PF plus the TC-20eIII was mounted (via FTZ-II for the Z9), resulting in a 600mm f/8, 1/800s, therefore quite challenging for the D6 AF system.
The pictures are from a paint on the ceiling, in quite darkness, with the D6 metering Hi2 expanded ISO, therefore 409600 ISO, but 2 stops of underexposure for the Z9, stopped at 102400 ISO by its limits.

As you can clearly see in the attached pictures, the D6 nailed the focusing in any orientation with still manageable file, in colour definition and detail (the D5 was slightly behind, especially in colour processing); instead, the Z9 had serious issues in acquiring the right focusing, with never-ending hunting, especially in portrait orientation. Plus, the quality of the Z9's file is just trash, from my point of view, no usable detail to be improved with any software, nor colour retention.
The Z8/Z9 proved to be a bit better than the D850, but all these 47MP bodies resulted unfit for low light operations, in terms of AF and photons' collection, really garbage, while D5/D6 continued to nail focus and give usable files, which means D5/D6 can help you in extreme conditions to grab the shot, otherwise not possible, at least in my own experience (see post above or search for the running wild boars in low light).
That's why I am waiting a Z1/Zh/Z9 (or call it as you want) to surpass the D5/D6 in the darkness, but silently :-)