Coolpix A

adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
edited March 2013 in Nikon DSLR cameras
Don't know like You but I'm a little bit dissapointed with this release. Yet another coolpix w/o viewfinder. Don't really see a market for it where You can buy fuji for pretty much same price with VF and much better look.
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Comments

  • SandSand Posts: 22Member
    I may not buy this but a folding lens is important for lot of amateur's because it can slide in the pocket. Say you are going to a party you can't take DSLR and even Fuji X100 is a little bigger to put in the pocket.. You may or may not agree..
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    good point, I guess I was looking at this cam from advanced point of view.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    Advanced or not, I'm buying one as soon as it is available.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 3,552Member
    It is good to see Nikon developing a camera like this, even if it isn't what "advanced" users might want. The price is extremely steep for what it is. In reality it shouldn't cost a dime more than the D5200.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • KnockKnockKnockKnock Posts: 346Member
    Fascinating release. Negatives are clear: overpriced, curious lens choice.

    But I can see the positives. Despite they're marketing it as a street camera, say you're a D7000 user wishing they'd come out with a wide angle DX lens. Bam, whole camera+lens for ~ the same weight we'd expect, minus the anti-aliasing filter. Drop it in the hiking bag along with a D7K and a tele-zoom lens. The interface looks like they followed the D7000's as well with the focus control on the lower left, the fn button up front by the lens, and the U1/U2 on the mode dial.

    I do appreciate the design - modern, functional, not bending over backwards retro.

    Now all they need is a 50mm version and an 85mm version ;-P Maybe it's a realistic option at $599. But at $1100? Crazy. Hopefully (for the consumer), their pricing tracks like the One models - maybe it'll become realistic come the holiday season.
    D7100, D60, 35mm f/1.8 DX, 50mm f/1.4, 18-105mm DX, 18-55mm VR II, Sony RX-100 ii
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited March 2013
    ... a folding lens is important for lot of amateur's because it can slide in the pocket. ......
    Professionals like to slip a Camera in their pocket too . My Leica IIIf had a SUMMICRON-M f/2 Collapsible lens and would fit in my pocket but it had interchangeable lens

    Why bring out a flagship camera, with a fixed non zoom, non interchangeable lens
    Is it to keep the dust out ????

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,308Moderator
    My guess...this is a test product to just say Nikon is still alive. But, what a disappointment. I certainly hope Nikon will get their act together and show us some very good cameras in the next few months.
    Msmoto, mod
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    have to disagree with You Tommie, sure I was expecting more, but after second thought on paper it looks much better than sony rx100 and has a bigger sensor than sony. OTOH, it's significantly cheaper than RX1. sure I would love to see a in-body EFV and a 35mm equivalent lens, but lets see how this small baby performs... and when ruicgard franciec will develop some appropriate grip for it :)
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    I would not give up my G11 for that kind of thing:

    optical finder as option
    lens hood as option
    only wide angle
    no swivel monitor
    in my eyes dull design
    wide angle and manual focus? with that screen in sunlight?

    Pretty disappointing, at least for that price.
  • GarethGareth Posts: 158Member
    edited March 2013
    The only thing that will matter about this camera for quite a while is:

    Nikon COOLPIX A vs Sony CyberShot DSC-RX100

    The Coolpix looks to be SERIOUSLY losing.

    The Nikon COOLPIX A just came out but it costs far more. $450 more at the moment OUCH!
    The Nikon has a prime, fixed focal length lens vs zoom on the Sony.
    The Nikon had a max aperture of 2.8 vs 1.8 on the Sony.

    The reviews for the RX100 have been nothing but praise.

    The Nikon COOLPIX A would have to have AMAZING high ISO capabilities and LIGHTNING FAST AF to even try and compete.

    I will wait for the cameras release before I make a stand, but it doesn't look good for the NIKON. I really wish they put a zoom on it with a wider aperture like the SONY. Then we would be able to see the bokeh much better.
    Post edited by Gareth on
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,308Moderator
    edited March 2013
    Yes, Adam, if it performs well, this will calm some of us down. I suppose we will find this out in next few weeks. But, I think this is just a forerunner of some much more sophisticated cameras to come. I tend to look at things in $1,000 segments...

    One area which disappointed me was the ISO of 3200. Maybe this is a conservative value and the noise at 6,400 or even 12,800 will be low...but I suppose we will have to see the results of some testing to find this out.

    How it focuses with moving objects will be interesting.

    Oh well...
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Whenever I looked at the offers in this camera segment, I probably made the mistake to compare it with what I already have and expected
    It has to be better at high ISO
    Or has to have a better optical finder
    Or has to have a better lens
    Or has to be easier to use
    Or has to have better, faster AF

    Only one advantage and I would have loved to exchange the G11 against a Nikon, if there's no disadvantage. I just see no point in exchanging if I come off worse than I went into that project.
  • shawninoshawnino Posts: 453Member
    Agree with most of the posts here. Based on specs, why you would buy this vs. Sony RX100 or Fuji x100 is completely lost on me.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 2,845Member
    No optical low-pass filter. So this isn't the D5100/D7000 sensor recycled? Unless they removed the optical low pass filter from that old sensor? This is the second release now of a sensor without an optical low pass filter. What does that signal for the D400 and future sensors?

    No zoom lens? "Gives you the ability to get in close to take portraits or step back to include the subject's environment." Who are they kidding? 18mm DX (28mm FX or 35mm) is not a good portrait lens. "Perfect street camera." I doubt that also. Strangers on the street aren't going to like you poking an 18mm lens in their face. Surely a version with an 18-55 zoom will appear soon, perhaps before the end of the year. Give us f2.8 with that moderate zoom and you will have a much better street camera. Pocket-ability vs. versatility. Nikon will most likely try to design a more compact zoom rather than use the design of their current 18-55 lens.

    Aluminum/Magnesium case. Surely the start of a new line of more rugged DX sensor Coolpix cameras. What will be future iterations of this design? Surely, a moderate fixed zoom. Likely, removable lenses. Likely an ability to use existing DX lenses.

    Curious ISO statement: "ISO 100 - 3200; can be adjusted using ISO sensitivity to 6400, Hi 0.3 (ISO 8000 equivalent), Hi 0.7 (ISO 10000 equivalent), Hi 1 (ISO 12800 equivalent), and Hi 2 (ISO 25600 equivalent)" So Hi 0.3 is 8000 ISO. High 1 is 12,800 ISO. Therefore Hi 0 must be the 6400 ISO. But the native ISO range is stated as from 100 to 3200. Yet, an "adjustment" can be made to set it to ISO 6400 without setting it on Hi 0.3. Is there a Hi 0.0 setting? Or is Nikon saying auto ISO runs from 100 to 3200 but you can manually set the ISO up one stop to 6400 before you enter the Hi designations? I am not aware of any DX DSLR with such a ISO adjustment scheme. I suspect Nikon is trying to keep users out of ISO 6400 territory unless they make an effort to deliberately go there manually. No auto setting taking the user into 6400 and then the user complaining about noise without realizing they are using too high an ISO?

    Design decision. Nikon essentially expanded the Coolpix line to include a DX sensor rather than create a new "retro" design line of bodies with a DX sensor. Will Nikon not even field a new retro design rangefinder? Let's hope they put DX at the top of the Coolpix line because they have reserved the FX sensor for their retro design rangefinder line.

    Price. Way too high. Put a moderate zoom on it and sell it for the same price as the D5200 with kit lens. Then it will be successful. In fact, Nikon could achieve economies of scale by using the same sensor in the the Coolpix A that Nikon uses in the D5200 or D3200. The internals don't have to be different; just a different external form factor. I don't see the point in using a unique sensor for Coolpix A. Perhaps Coolpix A will evolve into the same camera as the D3200 or D5200 just packaged in a different form factor.

    Just my initial impressions. Conclusion: Sorry Nikon, I am not impressed with this product.
  • itsnotmeyouknowitsnotmeyouknow Posts: 481Member
    Had an email from Nikon on this one with this link:

    http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/products/promotion/coolpix_a.page

    Pricey? Don't know the UK price yet, but going by normal rip off Britain prices, the price in £ will be close to the price in $. If I go to Focus tomorrow, I may see if the Nikon stall has it. I was impressed with the Fuji Pro kit when I viewed them there last year. But they are the reason why these compacts with big sensors are expensive. They have created a niche market for premium compacts. If IQ is fantastic, they will get away with it.
  • SandSand Posts: 22Member
    ... a folding lens is important for lot of amateur's because it can slide in the pocket. ......
    Professionals like to slip a Camera in their pocket too . My Leica IIIf had a SUMMICRON-M f/2 Collapsible lens and would fit in my pocket but it had interchangeable lens

    Why bring out a flagship camera, with a fixed non zoom, non interchangeable lens
    Is it to keep the dust out ????

    I don't think it is flagship camera in any way, there will be multiple iterations. And I also understand what you mean. May be if they had this camera with 18-55 f2.8-4 zoom, that would have been perfect. But for a first try, i guess it is not bad. Well if we want to just crib which lot of people on NR do then there is no end to it.
  • jjdarlingjjdarling Posts: 59Member
    I don't understand this camera. If they're putting out a me-too for the category when they're a year late to the party, shouldn't they at least TRY to make it either the best or cheap? It's not like a DSLR where repeat-customers are essentially forced to buy Nikon because we've bought into their lens/lighting systems. With a point-and-shoot most people are pretty free to buy whatever works for them. It's not like Nikon fosters much brand loyalty outside of people's wallets.

    That's why my point-and-shoot is a Canon. At the time I purchased it, it was the best. I didn't have to worry about it working with my Nikon gear...

    www.jjdarling.com
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 2,845Member
    I went from a Nikon point and shot to Cannon point and shoot for my wife. The Cannon just took better photos.
  • FlyingOkoFlyingOko Posts: 15Member
    Donaldejose wrote:
    Will Nikon not even field a new retro design rangefinder? Let's hope they put DX at the top of the Coolpix line because they have reserved the FX sensor for their retro design rangefinder line.
    Like http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2013/03/d3200-shoots-x100.html - (scroll towards bottom of post)? :)
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 1,796Member
    Honestly, in my opinion, the Nikon A doesn't compete with the RX100. Price wise maybe, but I think it competes more with the Sony RX-1. Either comparison the Nikon A looks terrible, but even more so against the RX-1. They're both fixed lens large sensor compact cameras, but they go about things differently- the Sony is an all out quality piece of equipment and the Nikon one is just an odd mish mash of parts bin leftovers. Even the info menu looks like it came from a D40.

    The lens is nowhere near fast enough and for that price it's not that special. Sony went the smart way- it was going to be expensive no matter what, why not make it look special? Even if the Nikon is all magnesium and may feel premium, it certainly doesn't look premium.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    I am pre-ordering the Coolpix A as soon as it's available in Canada.

    For me, the main competition to the Coolpix A is neither the RX1 nor the RX100. Rather it is the just-released Fuji x100s, which has a fixed 35mm/2 but is a bit bulkier + heavier.

    A 28mm fixed lens is perfect for my use. When I walk around with my D700 + 35/2, I often wish for a wider PoV. The downside is f/2.8 instead of f/2 like the Fuji. Now, I can usually compensate for an f-stop difference, but I can't make a 35mm lens shoot wider like a 28mm.

    Some of the complaints from above:

    1. No zoom. I don't care for a zoom. The x100s has no zoom either. Same with RX-1.
    2. It's expensive. Well, it's cheaper than the x100s (Nikon $1100 vs Fuji $1300).
    3. No articulating LCD. Thank goodness, I sure don't want a bulky LCD!
    4. No OLPF. At 16.2mp DX, low chance of moire. I'd take sharper images over the AA filter.
    5. Expensive optical finder. True, but I don't need one.

    Some other factors why I'm getting the Coolpix A instead of the Fuji x100s:

    - The Coolpix A works with my existing Nikon gadgets (GP-1 GPS, ML-L3 remote, SB-900)
    - Standard hot shoe with Nikon CLS system if I ever need it
    - Fuji's 3rd-party RAW support sucks; Nikon NEF fits well into my existing workflow
    - Native ISO 100

    Some things the Fuji x100s does better:

    - f/2 lens as mentioned above
    - 1/4000 shutter speed (vs. 1/2000 for the Nikon)
    - 6 fps vs Nikon's 4 fps

    Personally I'm not going to miss any of those things, so the Coolpix A seems perfect for me.

    -Ade
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    edited March 2013
    Coolpix? Coolpix! Coolpix!?! Nikon why can't you get out of your own way???? Doing it differently than the retro others doesn't make you a ground breaker!!! I wonder if they had a truck hit them if they could figure out it wasn't a tomato. I can't stand the coolpix line - or most digi cams. No old school manual controls - bad, bad, bad Nikon! Coolpix design? I'm just shaking my head. A swing and a HUGE MISS. Even Pentax got it more right with the looks.

    In all seriousness -
    First off - STOP COMPARING IT TO THE RX100! It is not a zoom, it does not have a mini sensor - it is a DX single focus camera. If you want a zoom, skip it.
    Second - 28mm is wide, and you could just point it in a direction and just get darn close with out framing it. I think a shoe mount optical viewfinder would be fine for that length.
    I do not like the 28mm focal length but I know many people do - depending on the manual control it allows one to accomplish will determine if it is a seller or not. Maybe they can do enough on the screen to get away with it. If they can do that then it could be a big hit. Street shooters love to zone focus so they can just fire away - if it can easily do this, then it could be reasonable. Problem though is the quick exposure changes that an aperture ring and shutter dial (with hard clicks) enable to change it quickly. (If you don't understand that basic need, don't knock it, try learning what others do and need to get the shot.)

    What Nikon could have done to make it stellar
    ♦Retro! Sorry but there is absolutely nothing sexy, or attractive about the look of the Coolpix line.
    ♦24mp or higher MP sensor. *With preset "crops" for 35mm, 50mm, 75mm. (Sony RX1 has a 50mm crop, with 24mp sensor, which still gives enough resolution.)
    ♦Building on that, a preset zoom (Think of a Tri-elmar) at 28/35/50 or even 14/28/35
    ♦f/1.8 or even f/2 would have made it really stand out.
    ♦$500-$750 - At that price many more people will come. For $500 I would skip buying a 28mm 1.8 and buy this as an additional "ready to go" camera. I always have the X100 on me for this reason.

    Where I come from - The basic checklist for marketing and developing products that sale:
    Identify three unique features or benefits of the product.

    -DX sensor, fast 2.8 prime, Wider than anyone else
    Identify the competition
    -Fuji x100, Sony RX1, Sigma DP series, Olympus/Panosonic 4/3rd
    Establish customer requirements for the product
    -DX, fast lens, .. Looks, High IQ, High ISOs with low noise, quick operation, street shooter oriented, affordable
    Identify potential market barriers
    -Price, Other manufactures are better IQ, user interface is cumbersome, Lens is too wide, Retro look is the "IT thing" and did not accomplish that.
    Identify product pricing criteria
    Other systems are from $999 - $2,800

    Now ask yourself where did it miss at and is that going to stop people from buying it? I think it will have a good niche of people buying it.

    Post edited by TaoTeJared on
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    No optical low-pass filter. So this isn't the D5100/D7000 sensor recycled? Unless they removed the optical low pass filter from that old sensor? This is the second release now of a sensor without an optical low pass filter. What does that signal for the D400 and future sensors?
    donald, donald, donald, donald :-w I thought we covered this - Sensors are not "recycled."
    1. verbiage is very incorrect. You are driving me mad on this ~X( They did not recondition, salvage, recover sensors from old cameras. That is what recycled means. What you mean is did they use the exact same sensor and transfer it to this. The lack of a low pass filter should have made this evident.

    2. I have figured out when you get on a particular item, it takes just about 6 different threads with the same evidence before it soaks in. :D
    Our previous conversation - http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/534/nikon-16mp-dx-mirrorless-28mm-f2-8-lens-discussion/p2 :D

    That all aside, you brought up some very good points and said it better than others.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    @tao - for what You need more than 16mpx?

    basically, the more I look at the camera the more I like it.
    focal length - perfect for travelling and street photography
    size - perfect
    lack of evf - gonna be annoying
    A vs others:
    - vs Sony rx100 - pros: good IQ, price; cons: I don't like to handle the sony, it's too slow for me, lack of EVF
    - vs Sony r1 - pros: exceptional IQ, retro feel; cons: PRICE, lack of EVF
    - vs Fuji x100s - pros: IQ, retro look, EVF; cons: RAW, RAW and one more time RAW
  • KnockKnockKnockKnock Posts: 346Member
    I think tao's response is spot-on as the Brits say. @adamz, the context was cropping. Yeah 28mm is wide, but if it were a 24mp sensor you could (I'll guestimate instead of doing the math) shoot in m4/3 mode giving you 35mm equiv view angle, that'd be 16mp. Crop mode for 50mm, say 12mp. And Crop mode for 85mm, ~8mp. Reasonable resolutions.

    At its current 16mp, then 12/8/5mp doesn't look as attractive. Little lines on the LCD could show you where the crop would be so you can frame accurately.
    D7100, D60, 35mm f/1.8 DX, 50mm f/1.4, 18-105mm DX, 18-55mm VR II, Sony RX-100 ii
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