Lightroom 4

HavocHavoc Posts: 17Member
edited December 2012 in General Discussions
I've been reading some reviews on this and I'm looking for any Pro's and Con's out there on this product.
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Comments

  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    Been using LR4 for some time now and it is my favorite go to post editing application. The only thing to pay attention to is where you place your photo's and the manner in which you import them. Here is what I do: I import all my files first from my memory card into a folder called pictures with an appropriate folded discribing what they shots contain. Once I have copied them to that location, then I fire up LR4 and then begin the importing process into the program. 

    If someone else has a different method of doing this then please share it with me.

    Cheers.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited December 2012
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited December 2012

    I have been using LR since LR2 ( about 5 years)

    Apart from needing a reasonable powerful computer, and a big screen, I have found very few disadvantages

    To take full advantage of LR you must shoot RAW

    Make sure you understand how the  data base works, that it is held in a seperate file separate file to your images 

    Understand how you finished work is "exported" (often as a jpeg) not saved

     create a robust back up system

     

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member

    soor for the typos and mistakes

     I cannot seem to edit my posts on the new forum ( or report a problem)

     I am afraid its "good by from me" fro the time being

     

     

  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,072Moderator
    edited December 2012
    What seven said is true.

    The way I import is direct from the camera into Lightroom.  The reason I do this is because if you are going to use Lightroom, you must not move, rename or in anyway touch your images using any other programs at all or ever.  Lightroom is your organiser and non-destructive editor.  So long as you organise your image folders using the library module, you will have an easy ride with Lightroom.

    I wish somebody had told me that before I started using it!

    I recommend Lightroom to you for its GUI - it is a stark contrast to the terrible GUI of Photoshop, and the tools in it are going to be good for editing 99% of your photos unless you are heavily into composites and HDRs.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • sidewayssideways Posts: 54Member
    I'm with Golf. My starting point is always to copy the original RAW and jpeg files from the card into a new folder (really simply like "2012-12-25 Christmas" so that the indexing is foolproof whatever I do next). I keep two copies of these on removable drives and import into lightroom from there.

    Although it's not the most efficient way, I prefer to import as a DNG as the RAW data plus any lightroom previews and editing data are always kept together in a single file in case anything gets messed up. I import using original folder name because I've never found any filing scheme quite as foolproof as the simple "date-subject".

    After that, as Spraynpray says, do all your further organisation from inside the program...

    Cheers


  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited December 2012

    One thing to be aware of. By default, LR will backup the data base to same drive as the master

    when you back the data base, you are not backing up the original  image files, just the data

    tip of day: practice doing a complete restore, before your hard drive(s) crash

    remember : if not IF  it crahes, it is  WHEN   

     

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • pippigurlpippigurl Posts: 241Member
    edited December 2012
    +1 to sevens comment on backup. Not a good way. So, if you follow the "help" video on backup you can select the location to backup at the end of the session or permanently select. Also, I have found that if I delete or move a file on say View NX that I have worked on in LR4, Lightroom will state that the image is no longer available. But, in general it does everything I want.
    Post edited by pippigurl on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,072Moderator
    +1 to sevens comment on backup. Not a good way. So, if you follow the "help" video on backup you can select the location to backup at the end of the session or permanently select. Also, I have found that if I delete or move a file on say View NX that I have worked on in LR4, Lightroom will state that the image is no longer available. But, in general it does everything I want.
    That is why I said forget ever moving, renaming or editing outside of Lightroom Pippi.
    Always learning.
  • warprintswarprints Posts: 61Member
    I have been using LR since the original version (now using LR4).   I import directly from the camera.   You can set import so that when LR imports to LR, it also imports a copy of the images to another location.   I use that to simultaneously import to an NAS.

    For the editing and printing that I do, I am quite happy with LR4.
  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    edited December 2012
    Hi,

    LR is both an organizational tool and an editor. They work great on both levels, but not so great on power editing like Photoshop CS6 with layers and the multitude of tools within tool chest. One might not miss what Photoshop has to offer, but didn't want to fail to mention that there is a magnitude of power beyond LR available in Photoshop CS6.

    Naturally, besides the additional cost of ownership, there is a magnitude to learning that goes with that, too. ;)

    My best,

    Mike
    Post edited by MikeGunter on
  • BabaGanoushBabaGanoush Posts: 252Member
    edited December 2012
    Can anyone tell me how to delete/abort a comment?  I started to write a reply to sideways in one session, decided not to post, signed out, logged back in later on to start another session, and found the remnants of the comment from my previous session still sitting in the text box...with no way to permanently deep-six the detritus. 
    Post edited by BabaGanoush on
  • BabaGanoushBabaGanoush Posts: 252Member
    edited December 2012
    Here is my intended reply to sideways @3:18 am:  If you are working on a Mac and are running backups using Time Machine, you might not want to import your images as DNG but rather as camera RAW (i.e., NEF).  The reason is that whenever you touch a DNG file in LR, even to change just a bit of the metadata info, Time Machine will feel obligated to write a backup of the newly-changed DNG file in its entirety.  As you probably know, with the D800 those image files are huge.  If you import your files in NEF format, LR will instead write any subsequent processing changes you make to the sidecar (xmp) files.  The xmp file is a lot smaller than the image file to which it belongs, so Time Machine will have less to backup and take less space on your backup drive.  For example, my D800 NEF files are typically 40-50 MB; xmp files are typically 8 kB.  Backing up the xmp file thus offers quite a saving of space.  And if you also happen to be a DxO Optics Pro user, as I am, the DNG files generated by DxO from the camera NEF files can grow to more than 120 MB in size, so one needs to keep a close eye on any proliferation of large backup files.
    Post edited by BabaGanoush on
  • TabazanTabazan Posts: 29Member
    LR (2,3 or 4) is good at some editing works. But it should be supported by some more preformant software for specific tasks (files/exifs management = ACDsee Pro 6, specific edition tasks = Nik Software -now Google- add-in).
  • kyoshinikonkyoshinikon Posts: 410Member
    Dont own 4 but 3 is pretty good...  If you need to batch adjust resize or watermark Lightroom is your tool...
    “To photograph is to hold one’s breath, when all faculties converge to capture fleeting reality. It’s at that precise moment that mastering an image becomes a great physical and intellectual joy.” - Bresson
  • sidewayssideways Posts: 54Member
    edited December 2012
    BabaGanoush 

    That's an extremely good point to make, and in any normal situation it's a good enough reason to prefer NEF + sidecar over the DNG. In fact I may re-consider the way I manage my files now, before I build up too many large image files from the D800.

    Your advice prompts me to offer one thought in return though. I'm a long time mac user (first machine was a b&W mac plus and currently have four mac's in the house). Unfortunately i've had a few experiences over the years when I've needed to do a complete software reinstall and time machine backups have failed to restore. I would never trust time machine to backup important data.

    Although a mac will run for years at a stretch without a software rebuild, finding out that your backups don't restore when they're the only resort is too late - and multiple backups taken with the same faulty software won't save you.

    The best advice I can offer to any regular mac user is 
    (i) to keep a couple of clone copies of your (clean, stable) operating system on external firewire drives. You just plug one in and boot off it if you need to repair your computer, and 
    (ii) supplement time machine backups with full (not incremental) backups of your important data. 

    Everything fails, even the controllers in RAID storage, so keep it really simple then if necessary you can pull the disks out and restore data by hand. Terabyte drives are cheap enough so think of them as insurance, and make sure you buy Firewire 800 / eSATA or faster for the big backups because USB2 drives are too slow. 

    I keep two full copies of my photo library on 3.5 inch external drives which I update periodically and have some 500Gb / 1 Tb portable drives that I carry with me to backup new work when I travel. The portable drives from G Drive or Seagate are a perfect fit, two up, in small Peli cases for travelling ...

    Cheers :-)
    Post edited by sideways on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited December 2012
    ...but didn't want to fail to mention that there is a magnitude of power beyond LR available in Photoshop CS6.



    CS6 works very well  with LR. You can seemless go from LR and edit the image in CS6 then save the changes back in LR

    I do all may filing, culling and editing editing in LR and only use CS6 for more complicated takes

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,072Moderator
    Due to the options to seamlessly use plug-ins and right-click 'edit in' with Photoshop when needed, I really can't see any software at any price that I would prefer. 

    Adobe for President!
    :))
    Always learning.
  • jonnyapplejonnyapple Posts: 130Moderator
    You probably don't need to tell Mike about, that, seven. He teaches classes about both of them. ;-)

    I'd wager that for most people with film experience, LR is good enough for 99% of their work like Andrew mentioned. I use and love both, but I'm almost always in LR.
    CC is welcome. DC is also welcome when I deserve it.
  • Parke1953Parke1953 Posts: 455Member
    Question- I want to buy a friend Lightroom her computer runs XP. If I get Lightroom 3 and then upgrade to 4 will it run on XP?
  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    Hi all,

    @Jonnyapple, thanks for the vote of confidence, but remember, I often wake in a new world everyday...

    @7Crossing, You're exactly right, but I did want to make sure that everyone understood that the real power of compositing and layering comes from Photoshop and I think it's a worthwhile pursuit in itself - not to hijack this thread, I plan to start a new thread on 'jobs and careers' to tie in software and digital darkroom. In short, IMHO, Photoshop (and LR as one of the organizational tools) the photographer who is employable will have to be skilled in all these tools.

    My best,

    Mike
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited December 2012

    Mike I agree,

    Any professional photographer should have a good  understanding of, how Photoshop works, what it is capable off , and the difference  between PS and LR. They need to be aware of the tasks that are better carried out in PS rather than LR

    But PS is a huge and very complicated program . If  major retouching or  manipulation is required, IMHO this is best left to the photoshop professionals

     

     

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • CorrelliCorrelli Posts: 135Member
    I wonder how seamless the integration of PS is into LR. Currently I use Aperture and PS and what I don't like here is, as soon as I edit a photo in PS (from within Aperture) my raw file will get converted into a TIFF and I basically loose the non-destructive editing advantage I got in Aperture.

    How is this done in LR? Will the editing I do in PS be reflected back into the non-destructive editing of LR or is this process similar to what Aperture does?
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    @7Crossing, You're exactly right, but I did want to make sure that everyone understood that the real power of compositing and layering comes from Photoshop and I think it's a worthwhile pursuit in itself - not to hijack this thread, I plan to start a new thread on 'jobs and careers' to tie in software and digital darkroom. In short, IMHO, Photoshop (and LR as one of the organizational tools) the photographer who is employable will have to be skilled in all these tools.

    +1 A few years ago I had a machine go down and was time to buy a new one and it had Elements on it.  I haven't used PS since.  But most of my work doesn't require major editing or large compositions or composite images where PS shines.  I do think LR4 w/ Elements is a great combo for amateurs even advanced ones.


    I wonder how seamless the integration of PS is into LR. Currently I use Aperture and PS and what I don't like here is, as soon as I edit a photo in PS (from within Aperture) my raw file will get converted into a TIFF and I basically loose the non-destructive editing advantage I got in Aperture.

    How is this done in LR? Will the editing I do in PS be reflected back into the non-destructive editing of LR or is this process similar to what Aperture does?
    Same it sounds like - although I always work in the opposite, LR > other program.  I believe you can use DNG and another PS extension(?) as well though. The Tiff has your LR adjustments set from the export, then once you bring it back in it is set, but it once more becomes non-destructive again with additional LR edits.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • YetibuddhaYetibuddha Posts: 388Member
    I am with Mike on having both LR and PS. CS 6 is powerful and now includes a lot of video tools, which can be used in combination with LR to produce timelapse videos.
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