Decided to (possibly) go FX! Help?

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  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    edited February 2014
    f8nBthere said the following:

    Before I go and buy a D610… I thought I would run it by the good folks here for validation.

    I have no doubt the improvement over my current gear will be amazing, however I don’t want to set unrealistic expectations and then have remorse that I should have waited for the next generation of camera. I am a 'buy and keep' for a loooong time type of guy.

    I currently shoot a D200 and am pushing the camera to its limits. The driver for the new camera is shooting my daughter’s gymnastics competitions – low light, high speed subjects and no flash… triple whammy. It is a pretty tough photography situation to contend with. I am usually in the stands with my 70 - 200 zoom, not on the floor with the hired pros. I don’t print a lot of pictures, but do want to be able to print the odd 8x10 from time to time. Who knows, maybe a poster if one of the girls gets famous…

    I have been fighting these conditions for several years. All my glass is 2.8 fixed. Although I only have one FX lens, my 70 – 200 Sigma. The other I use most is a 16 – 50 ATX Tokina (DX). I also have the Tokina 11 – 16 for landscapes – I hear it is awesome to shoot video with as well. I like the DX crop mode on the D610 to utilize my existing glass until I am ready to upgrade the dx lenses.

    The gyms we shoot in probably range from EV 7 down to 5… depending on ambient light from windows and time of day/season of year…
    With a D200, anything beyond iso 640 is just too noisy to be happy with. I can push to 800 or 1000 but the results aren't up to a standard that I would share with anyone. If I shoot wide open and set my iso at 640 I get 1/60 – 1/125 shutter speeds. I can get ok results occassionally on beam work, but much less so for floor, vault and bars. I need to prefocus, hold a half shutter and time my shots to get a good usable number of frames.

    Ideally I would like to stop action and I wouldn’t mind a bit more flexibility with depth of field as well. Is 1/500th at f4 without pushing the iso into a grainy mess possible with a D610 given the amount of light I have to work with? In the real world, how is the noise at iso 6400 – 12,800 using a D610. Usable or not so much? Perhaps 3200 and compensate exposure then use LR to pull it back (trick I stumbled across reading here...)

    Curious if anyone else shoots gymnastics events here and if they think the D610 is up to task? My sister shoots a D800, however I can't justify the extra $1000 for what appears to be a small increase in low light sensitivity and I believe the D610 has a better frame rate.

    Thanks!

    Other threads on this topic:
    http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/1522/nikon-d610-discussion
    http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/546/d600-or-d7100-for-wildlife-motor-sports
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited February 2014
    f8nBthere
    My sister shoots a D800, however I can't justify the extra $1000 for what appears to be a small increase in low light sensitivity and I believe the D610 has a better frame rate

    As far as I can make out, the high ISO performance of the D800 and D610 are similar ( most reviews suggest the D600 might be slightly better) so borrow you sisters D800 and see if the high ISO performance is acceptable to you; only you can say what is and what is not acceptable

    One criticism of the D610 is focusing. The focusing on the D800 is brilliant but it does not seem to be matched by the D610



    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    edited February 2014
    The D600 high iso was a bit better than the D800 they seem to have tweaked the D610 to have a bit more DR and sacrificed high ISO capability slightly. For your application, the weakest part of the D600/D610 is the focusing.. However, I belief that the D610 has had a tweak and focus has been improved. I think you can also set it for the cross types focus points only to get better focus.. however you will be limited to compos via cropping ie your subject will always be in the middle and you will need to shoot with lots of space around the subject for the purpose of composition in post.
    Although the D800 is great for reasonably high ISO shoots .. the D610 does have a significant advantage from ISO 6400 and above. If you think you will shoot above 6400 then the D610 has the edge otherwise the better focusing capability of the D800 is a huge advantage for sports shooters..

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    @sevencrossing

    Actually f8nBthere said that…LOL
    Msmoto, mod
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    @sevencrossing

    Actually f8nBthere said that…LOL
    corrected

  • f8nBtheref8nBthere Posts: 5Member
    Took me a while to stumble across where you moved my post to... I thought I had been closed out and spurned... I apologize for any negative thought vibrations sent your way moderator... most other forums I am active in call hijack if one tries to piggy back on another's thread. I thought my angle was unique enough to warrant my own. I'll make a point to circle back and read your sticky rules...

    I had actually read this thread and many others as well prior to posting but hadn't really gained enough detailed experiential commentary on real world low light iso performance shooting gymnastics with the d610.
    Sorting through the blabber about dirt in order to fine a gem of wisdom was particularly tiresome.

    I would trial my sister's 800 but unfortunately she lives in San Diego and I in BC... that and she couldn't possibly be separated from it for more than an hour at a time.

    If the event is in our own gym, I can get access to the floor, however I choose not to because then there will be 10 others that want the same privilege. As president of our gym fundraising society, I need the point and shoot parents buying from our hired gun. It'd be bad form to be out there working around him. And he does really great work - I have bought many of his photos... shots that I missed. I have also picked his brain a bit on what settings he uses, however his Canon 1DX does give him a lot of latitude.

    Not sure if it means much in the real world, but DXOMark does rate the d610 higher for low light iso than a 1DX... come to think of it, they rate the d610 as one of the highest period... ergo - there isn't anything better in my price range. Therefore, if the d610 and good glass won't do it, I have no other affordable option... or I live with a little noise.

    I have since found a few gymnastics photos on flickr shot with a d610... with exif data attached. The iso was pushed to 12,800 and shutter speed set to 1/1000... don't recall the aperture, but there was more than enough DOF. Overall the noise was apparent, but not unusable - better than iso 640 on my D200 by a wide margin. So, I think I should be ok with the D610.

    The difference in AF doesn't concern me - I have mastered the single point and recompose technique in a challenging environment... either the 39 of 51 point system will be a vast improvement over what I have. I couldn't trust the continuous AF of a D200 so it may take me a while to embrace it in a new body.

    Conclusion - will purchase the D610 as soon as my tax return is processed or my back commission cheque arrives. Unless a D400 is announced first... ;-)
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator
    @f8nBthere

    Good decision…. the D600 was an excellent camera, but had a severe defect. The D610 appears to have this corrected.

    Glad you found where I moved you….LOL
    Msmoto, mod
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    F8, can you rent gear where you are? That would tell the tale...
  • f8nBtheref8nBthere Posts: 5Member
    I don't know if there are rental options locally. I could just abuse the no questions return policy at London Drugs... My cousin drops in regularly to sample new kit before an event she wants to shoot. They do have the best prices locally and my intent would be to buy it if I am pleased.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited February 2014
    Took me a while to stumble across where you moved my post to........ I thought I had been closed out and spurned..............I had actually read this thread and many ..............Sorting through the blabber about dirt in order to fine a gem of wisdom was particularly tiresome.

    I think this is major issue with NFR, both for people with a new question and people try to answer it
    Some threads are over 25 pages long; trying to work out if you question has already been asked or answered is not easy
    When replying, it is difficult to know which persons question is currently being discussed

    eg the help me spend my money for a macro lens is now mostly about tilt shift and stacking
    so if you have a question about stacking or tilt shift, were do ask it ??


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    we do tend to go off-piste on occasion
  • Well I have now ordered the 24-85 f/3.5-4.5. Looking forward to using it. Am still going to get rid of both the standard 18-55 and the Sigma 70-300 lens. I am leaning towards ordering the D800e and selling the D7100 for some better lenses. Not sure whether to get a Teleconverter II to go with a new 70-300 or 70-200.. What do you think I should do, Keep the D7100 as a backup ? or get better glass instead ? (to go with the D800e)
    Nikon D7100 for sale, Nikon D800e
    Nikon 24-85 VR F/3.5-4.5 , Nikon 80-400 VR F/4.5-5.6 G ED :
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited March 2014
    Not sure whether to get a Teleconverter II to go with a new 70-300 or 70-200.. What do you think I should do, Keep the D7100 as a backup ? or get better glass instead ? (to go with the D800e)
    Forget TCs with Zooms and the D800
    TCs don't just magnify the image they also magnify any weakness in the lens and the D800 is capable of resolving those weakness you are better off cropping

    If you do need 400mm, then consider getting the 80 -400 rather than the 70 -200
    the 70 -200 f 2.8 is great if you are shooting indoors but f 2.8 is not needed in daylight
    Beware once you have used a D800, you are spoilt for anything else
    I would only keep the D7100 if you need a light weight camera for travel
    One disadvantage of the D800 is it Weight

    D800 vs D800e I think there is a tread on this


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • OK Then.. i'll ditch the idea of a TC, Wasn't sure if they would extend the 80-400 I have anyway, apparently not anyway.
    Nikon D7100 for sale, Nikon D800e
    Nikon 24-85 VR F/3.5-4.5 , Nikon 80-400 VR F/4.5-5.6 G ED :
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited March 2014
    sevencrossing
    D800 vs D800e I think there is a tread on this



    It is here
    http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=9312

    but as this is on the old forum, you might like to start a new one

    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    @nikon_jonathanbruce, There is a whole discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of teleconverters. The 80-400 might be one worth using a TC on:
    http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/268/teleconverters-good-or-bad

    You can put a nikon TC on almost any prime lens, and a few of the larger (2.8 and better) zooms. You can put third party TCs on almost any lens. The question is, can you live with the results. There are good arguments that a D800/800e gives you enough pixels to crop into without the need for the light loss and image degradation that comes with a TC. I would say "it depends" on which lens, light conditions, etc... but it is a close tradeoff for sure. There are also good arguments that if you are looking for more "reach" you should use a crop-sensor (DX) camera for this purpose, since a D7100 will put 24megapixels on a subject that a D800 would only get 16mp on apples to apples.

    I would keep the D7100 for "backup" and doubling your lens collection, mostly on the long end.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    OK Then.. i'll ditch the idea of a TC, Wasn't sure if they would extend the 80-400 I have anyway, apparently not anyway.
    If you have the new 80-400 and the 7100 it doesn't get much better than that for reach without spending many thousands of dollars more. If you were able to find a good deal on supertele prime like a 500mm or 600mm then I would say dump your 7100 and go all FX. But that is a very different shooting setup compared to a hand-holdable 7100 with 80-400 given the significantly greater size & weight of any of the supertele primes.

    I would recommend getting or keeping whatever best fits your shooting style and needs.
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