Which Develop Setting in LR4 should I use?

earthseaearthsea Posts: 11Member
edited April 2013 in General Discussions
I shoot raw photos with my D800 and in the shooting menu I have my picture control set to "Nautral"
When I import into LR4 I set the 'Develop Setting' to 'None' ( I have also tried 'General Zeroed' ) which seems to over ride any settings I have made on my camera.
Question; What 'Develop Setting' in LR4 do I choose to import photos I shoot with my D800 that will keep all the settings as I have set them on the camera?
The preview thumbnails I see just before importing into LR4 are true to the camera, I tested this by taking 3 shots of the same scene but set in 'Picture Control' in the 'Shooting Menu' 1/Neutral, 1/Standard and 1/Landscape.
What I need to know is, what 'Develop Setting' do I choose in 'Apply During Import'
Thanks in advance Guys for any tips with this one.

Comments

  • ElvisheferElvishefer Posts: 329Member
    edited April 2013
    iirc picture controls in camera only effect jpg images generated by the camera

    The information is not applied to RAW files by the camera because the whole point of RAW is to get as much 'unaltered' data crammed into the image file as possible for later adjustment in post production.

    LR isn't stripping the settings from your RAW file, because it wasn't there to begin with.

    You'll notice under 'Camera Calibration' on the Develop panel of LR4 there is a pull down menu with suggested 'presets' for various image types.

    I'm foggy on the details here, but I think Portrait lowers the red values in an image, Landscape punches up contrast, and Vivid messes with higher saturation levels. Standard.. might mess with contrast. Neutral makes no or very, very slight adjustments.

    These selections allow you to apply logical changes to each image you import.

    To lock one of these in for each import, make sure you're on the Develop panel. Make sure ALL settings are the way you want them for each import (I do Camera standard camera calibration, lens corrections, and I leave the rest at neutral values), and look in the bottom left corner of the screen at the 'Reset' button.

    Press and hold the alt key (PC, not sure what on Mac), and the 'Reset' button will change to 'Set Default', and when you click your image adjustments will be carried out automatically on import thereafter.

    Post edited by Elvishefer on
    D700, 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, 24-70mm f/2.8, 14-24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4G, 200mm f/4 Micro, 105mm f/2.8 VRII Micro, 35mm f/1.8, 2xSB900, 1xSB910, R1C1, RRS Support...

    ... And no time to use them.
  • earthseaearthsea Posts: 11Member
    Wow! Thank you for such a detailed explaination, that all makes sence to me now.
    What confused me was when I loaded the same images in 'View NX2' I get the three different images that the camera has produced, I thought these were Raw images as I hd not converted them any place. These images must be jpeg's because when I open them in 'Adobe Bridge' all three look the same as they do in LR4.
    Thanks again.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,308Moderator
    I use LR 4.4 and shoot RAW 14-bit lossless compressed. Camera is set to neutral, auto WB. Because of the wide variety of light conditions I usually do not use presets in LR. However, I will copy my settings and paste onto other images from the same shoot, then use the various adjustments.

    Also, as a result of many different locations for my Macbook Pro, I have found a useful tool is to have a color swatch available on my desktop in order that I might better see what the colors are in relationship to this constant.

    Here is the swatch:

    Monitor Calibration

    My monitor is calibrated with a Huey Pro kit.

    And, the button on a Mac is alt/option
    Msmoto, mod
  • CorrelliCorrelli Posts: 135Member
    Wow! Thank you for such a detailed explaination, that all makes sence to me now.
    What confused me was when I loaded the same images in 'View NX2' I get the three different images that the camera has produced, I thought these were Raw images as I hd not converted them any place. These images must be jpeg's because when I open them in 'Adobe Bridge' all three look the same as they do in LR4.
    Thanks again.
    The camera attaches the settings you apply in camera as metadata to the file. But Adobe or Apple or any other Raw converter does not know how to read or interpret these data. But Nikon does. So if you import the files into ViewNX or other Nikon Software they can apply the settings to the raw file. If you use other software like Aperture or Lightroom they don't know what to do with that data so they cannot apply it.
  • JohnJohn Posts: 134Member
    For regular all round photos I use the camera calibration presets that are provided in Lightroom.
    I tend to have a preference for the camera standard (for all round use) and camera landscape (for landscapes with a bit of punch) presets. Camera neutral is used for images that well need a bit more processing as it gives a starting point without anything being to strong. It's also useful for recovering images with very high contrast.
    Camera portrait is a little bit offers a bit softer skin tones and might sometimes be useful for studio work. But generally speaking I don't use it very much.
    I can do a better job using the sliders and some local adjustment brush work.
    Camera vivid ads a lot of punch but also creates a color shift. I tend not to use it and add punch via the vibrance and clarity sliders.
    Finally, the Adobe standard "camera profile) provides a generic rendering that might give you a good result but is often a bit lacking in my personal opinion. I tend to prefer the others more so do experiment and see for yourself. After all, the differences can be subtle and appreciation is in the eye of the beholder.

    Do note that the "camera profiles" that are part of Lightroom 4 try to give you the same result as those you would get using the in camera picture controls applied to a jpg image and/or viewing the nef file in View NX (or Capture NX).
    The problem is that it's an attempt. The colors do not match perfectly.
    (With View NX and Capture NX giving the most correct results)
    If you really need the highest levels of color accuracy that you can get using Lightroom 4 then you need to use a color checker (such as shown by MsMoto) combined with calibration software. I've recently purchased the Spyder ColorChecker in order to do this.
  • earthseaearthsea Posts: 11Member
    Thanks again Guys for some great advise. I have decided to go with 'Adobe Standard' in 'Camera settings' and 'None' in the 'Develop Settings-Apply During Import'
    After using Capture NX2 for years I now use LR4 and love it, hence the question. In my opinion NX2 was way ahead of its time when it was released but could now do with a jolly good revamp if it is to remain competitive in the market of photography software.
  • earthseaearthsea Posts: 11Member
    edited April 2013
    P/S Am I right in deducing that; If LR4 does'nt reconise any of the settings on the Nikon Camera during import, then it does'nt matter what settings one has on the camera? That the settings on the camera are only benificial if Nikon software is used in conjunction with it.
    If the settings that John mentions above are only LR4's version of the camera's settings, not the actual camera settings, which 'Profile' in 'Camera Settings' gives the true raw image? I have to choose one of them and each one gives a different looking image.
    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be difficult here, but my understanding of a Raw image is it's just basic information not tampered with by any post shot software either from the camera or the LR4 and I still have one of 6 different looking choices to make in 'Camera Calibration' before importing the image.
    Post edited by earthsea on
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    P/S Am I right in deducing that; If LR4 does'nt reconise any of the settings on the Nikon Camera during import, then it does'nt matter what settings one has on the camera? That the settings on the camera are only benificial if Nikon software is used in conjunction with it.
    Yes - and kind of. I'm always a bit unclear about it, but there is a setting that some of the file settings that is embedded in the raw file can be allowed to be applied. This is something that is deep in the LR preferences/options and NOT the "import" dialogue.
    If the settings that John mentions above are only LR4's version of the camera's settings, not the actual camera settings, which 'Profile' in 'Camera Settings' gives the true raw image? I have to choose one of them and each one gives a different looking image.
    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be difficult here, but my understanding of a Raw image is it's just basic information not tampered with by any post shot software either from the camera or the LR4 and I still have one of 6 different looking choices to make in 'Camera Calibration' before importing the image.
    Basically you are "thinking" that because there are options, you need to select something. That is an incorrect thought process. Most I know, select nothing and just let the files import.

    The reason for being able to choose options is if you know ahead of time that you are going to apply something globally. For instance if you are importing files for a news agency where you don't edit anything, you may want to choose to apply more contrast, sharpen, Noise reduction and clarity on every single image since you would anyway. You may save those settings to a preset of "NewsABC". Every time you import photos for that particular work/job, you can select those import settings. I have a converted camera to IR, and I have created an import that pre-sets the contrast, sharpness, curves, noise reduction along with file name and tags. This saves a ton of time editing if all of it is applied during import.

    Camera calibration is a whole different thing. It is mainly used to apply a color profile from a chart like MS moto posted above (not in camera settings.)

    I would suggest picking up a couple of Lightroom books to help you get acclimated to the program. Most of what you are asking about, has large chapters dedicated to each item that just can't be done justice here.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • JohnJohn Posts: 134Member
    P/S Am I right in deducing that; If LR4 does'nt reconise any of the settings on the Nikon Camera during import, then it does'nt matter what settings one has on the camera? That the settings on the camera are only benificial if Nikon software is used in conjunction with it.
    Yes, you are (mostly) correct.
    The only exception is that the image that you see on your camera (when you review the image on the lcd screen) uses the settings that you applied. This means that things like the histogram will take your settings into account.
    This shouldn't matter too much. But suppose you chose the "landscape" preset and manually adjusted the contrast to maximum then you might see a low of blown highlights and very dark areas on the lcd (when reviewing your image). This high contrast will be gone after the import into Lightroom.
    Mij advice is to stick to the camera standard profile for reviewing images on the rear lcd.
    If the settings that John mentions above are only LR4's version of the camera's settings, not the actual camera settings, which 'Profile' in 'Camera Settings' gives the true raw image? I have to choose one of them and each one gives a different looking image.
    Actually, there is no correct profile.
    The reason is that the raw data is just a count of the photons hitting the sensor. This information is then used to build the image. Human eyes respond to light in a certain way which is different then how a sensor "sees" light. Film also has a different responce based on the type of file, the manufacturer, the development proces,...
    Everything gives slightly different results.
    So, it's impossible to say which one if the one and only correct profile.
    It depends upon your taste.
    The Lightroom profiles match the Nikon profiles pretty good. They are just not exactly the same.
    Which Lightroom profile should you use?
    All of them. It just depends on the photo and the result that you want.
    I usually start of by using Camera Standard.
    This is an all round profiles with good color saturation that needs very little adjustment to have a good image.
    For landscapes the Camera Landscape is worth considering. It gives a bit more contrast and punch to the image and is a good starting point for impressive landscape images.
    Camera neutral is mostly usefull a starting point for heavy edits. The contrast and color saturation are quite low (compared to the other modes) and so will allow a lot more editing before things start to look unrealistic.
    It's also perhaps the closest to what the human eye sees. (Which also means it can sometimes be quite dull)
    Camera Vivid add a lot of saturation. It gives you colors and images that realy "pop" but it can be too much. You might want to try it on sunsets and in situations where you want really intense, rich colors.
    Camera Portrait is very close to Camera Standard but has a little bit less contrast in the skin tones. This results in more even, softer skin which might be pleasing for a model shot.
    Adobe Standard is just a generic starting place but it might also turn out the be the starting position that you liked to most.
    Photography is just an interpretation of reality. If you just want to create good looking pictures then you should try them all and see which one you like best for a given photo.
    I import my files and the first profile I usually check out afterwards is Camera Standard. But this does not stop me from trying the other profiles and looking at the result (and picking the one I like the most).

    If you wan't to get as close as possible to the absolute correct colors (as seen by the human eye) then you need a fully callibrated workflow. This starts with a camera callibration (where you measure how the sensor measures specific light frequencies), then there is the need to callibrate the monitor and finally you need a callibrated printer with profiles. All this is required in order to get the colors as exact as possible.
    However, this is really only required for very specific assignments such as some fashion shoots for a high end catalogues. (When the color of the dress as printed in the publication is "exactly" the same as the color of the actual dress)
  • JohnJohn Posts: 134Member
    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be difficult here, but my understanding of a Raw image is it's just basic information not tampered with by any post shot software either from the camera or the LR4 and I still have one of 6 different looking choices to make in 'Camera Calibration' before importing the image.
    You don't need to select it during import. You can select it if you want to. But it's just a setting that can be selected and changed later on.
    Just like you can already increase the exposure when you import the files.
    This would be the same as changing the exposure of each file later on.
    These changes can be undone/changed at a later time without any problem.
    Look at the bottom of the right toolbar in the development tab. There you can change the camera profile.

    Now why would you want to set this during import?
    Well, somethimes you need an adjustment to be applied to all the images as a starting point.
    Suppose I forgot to turn of exposure compensation and and all my images are 1 step underexposed. Then I already add 1 step exposure during import so I don't have to do it for each image.
    (I could also have done it quickly later on using the "sync" option in Lightroom)
    Suppose I did a fashion shoot and my experience told me that Camera Portrait gives me the best starting point formy setup. Then I can just apply this profile to all my images at one during import and I already have a good place to start the rest of my edits.
  • earthseaearthsea Posts: 11Member
    Thank you again John for a very well explained response. I have just purchased Martin Evening's 'The Photoshop Lightroom 4' Book which reiforces what every one has been saying.
    Cheers.
  • JohnJohn Posts: 134Member
    You're welcome.
    I hope that you enjoy the book. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.
Sign In or Register to comment.