Nikon Losing the Plot?

paulrpaulr Posts: 1,176Member
edited September 2015 in Other Manufacturers
We are all getting excited about the new D5 and possible D400 with 4K video. yet other manufactures are testing Min 8K up to 16k, Are Nikon falling behind in the cutting edge of technology? It would seem that the "K" race is becoming like the "Pixel" race.
Post edited by spraynpray on
Camera, Lens and Tripod and a few other Bits
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Comments

  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,084Member
    Long as Canon isn't faster than Nikon, Nikon really has no incentive to hurry up at all. Sony is Nikon's biggest threat I think, because they throw everything at the wall and sees if anything sticks.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 468Member
    I think there should first be a device that allows 8 & 16K viewing /:)
  • 9viii9viii Posts: 24Member
    I doubt 16K will ever have application beyond professional use.
    Unless we start doing lots of high resolution 360 degree video stuff for VR, but in a single panel application I think 8K will fill the needs of just about everyone.
    I'm going to love it for ultra high density pictures at normal screen sizes and others are going to love having a less dense, but still really high quality screen plastered across their wall.
    Not to mention 8K already requires more bandwidth than any current or near future consumer system is capable of.
    The Japanese Super Hi-Vision spec (Which IMO is what everyone should shoot for) is 144 Gigabits per second, you could do that with PCI E3.0 lanes but I don't think anyone is going to market a TV that you plug directly into your motherboard any time soon.
    I wish they would, but this industry is about taking baby steps and average consumer acceptance, not what I want (I think 4K should have gone mainstream with the first push in 2007, stupid Real Estate market).
  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 317Member
    Looking forward to 4K throughout Nikon's DSLR line for 2 reasons: sharper 1080p and hopefully some new, improved LV focusing chops ala Canon's Dual Pixel or Panasonic's DFD. Nikon will bring out 8K and 16K when the market for those mature and Sony have the needed imaging sensors available for Nikon to buy.
  • SnowleopardSnowleopard Posts: 244Member
    I think Canon has developed video faster than Nikon, but the funny thing is, any Canon user that does video all the time is salivating over the ever more expensive Red Dragon video camera's.

    They make the video from Canon bodies look horrid, but you pay for it.

    I agree that Sony, if they really get the mirrorless stuff where it needs to be, they will be the big threat.

    I said before, I never thought I would use my DSLR for video untill I saw how clean high ISO video was in the middle of the night with the D810..... now I make a point to use it for video at least once or twice a month.
    ||COOLPIX 5000|●|D70|●|D700|●|D810|●|AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D|●|AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D|●|AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G|●|AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D|●|AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED (Silver)|●|AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E III|●|PB-6 Bellows|●|EL-NIKKOR 50mm f/2.8||
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,005Member
    Meh 4k and 8k, what difference does it make? Mainstream TV buyers are still getting 1080p devices and likely will for years due to the cost of high resolution TV's and screens.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • safyresafyre Posts: 113Member
    Nikon losing the plot? You might as well make another thread saying that Nikon is losing it's edge because it hasn't made a 200 megapixel camera yet.

    Seriously though, this thread is about 10 years too soon. Put it in a time capsule and come back once 1080p even becomes the defacto standard for everyone, because let me give you a hint, even though 1080p was created 15 years ago, it still isn't.
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 468Member
    So called HDTV is still mostly 720p ....
  • SnowleopardSnowleopard Posts: 244Member
    edited October 2015
    I guess it depends on when we grew up..... I am old enough to remember black and white tv at my grandparents home, color tv at my parents home when it first came out....

    Then the transition to High Def (I do not consider 720p high def, 1080p is high def). Now 4k, 8k, and 16k is being tested in Japan now.

    720p was the dumbest thing and a gimmick. It was just to get a low bandwidth digital signal into peoples homes.

    Honestly I can't wait for 16k TV's. We should just skip 4k and 8k all together. The problem with 4k, 8k and 16k is the bandwidth they require to transmit signals right now.

    I think Nikon has been slacking in the video area and really should be leading, but then again, Sony makes the sensors, not Nikon, they might be to Nikon's spec, but they are still Sony fabs.

    The other thing to think about is noise reduction.... Half of that 16k signal is probably lost to removing noise so you are really getting a near perfect 8k picture from a 16k signal.

    Notice how you loose allot of noise when you re-sample / resize 36mp D800/800E/D810/D810A photo's......
    Post edited by Snowleopard on
    ||COOLPIX 5000|●|D70|●|D700|●|D810|●|AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D|●|AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D|●|AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G|●|AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D|●|AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED (Silver)|●|AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E III|●|PB-6 Bellows|●|EL-NIKKOR 50mm f/2.8||
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,049Member


    I think Nikon has been slacking in the video area and really should be leading, but then again, Sony makes the sensors, not Nikon, they might be to Nikon's spec, but they are still Sony fabs.

    Since it is Nikon's design and spec, they could have anybody make them. Sony just won the bidding process.
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,293Member
    edited October 2015
    For me I couldn't care less about video or even keeping up with the megapixel war. That's just me though and I know it is important to a lot of users out there. What does concern me is their lethargic attempt at refreshing their pro zoom lens line-up particularly models from 2007 and 2009. They fixed most of their primes now let's get to work on our zooms please! >:/
    Post edited by kanuck on
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    Meh 4k and 8k, what difference does it make? Mainstream TV buyers are still getting 1080p devices and likely will for years due to the cost of high resolution TV's and screens.
    http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE42UMS-42-Inch-Ultra-Model/dp/B00VJ5X7L4/
    This 4K unit is only $449, and the price will continue to drop.
    I buy the $h!4 out of these for commercial use, they work great as monitors too.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,049Member
    For me I couldn't care less about video or even keeping up with the megapixel war. That's just me though and I know it is important to a lot of users out there. What does concern me is their lethargic attempt at refreshing their pro zoom lens line-up particularly models from 2007 and 2009. They fixed most of their primes now let's get to work on our zooms please! >:/
    Yeah, I have a quarter million actions on my D800. I doubt that I have shot more than six hours on video, and that is on a tripod filming interviewing techniques. Not exactly a situation where quality matters much.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited October 2015


    I think Nikon has been slacking in the video area and really should be leading, but then again, Sony makes the sensors, not Nikon, they might be to Nikon's spec, but they are still Sony fabs.

    Since it is Nikon's design and spec, they could have anybody make them. Sony just won the bidding process.
    The sensor plays only a small part in making video. The processor (expeed) does about 90% of the work, the sensor about 10%.

    Let's get our terms straight anyway:

    The term "fab" is short for "fabrication facility".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_fabrication_plant

    At the end of the day, a fab is nothing more than a fancy (i.e. expensive) photocopier, it's just that the "original" is a mask:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomask

    The "paper" is silicon wafers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafer_(electronics)

    And the "toner or ink" is a combination of chemical etching and depositing of specific conducting, insulating, or semi-conducting material.

    To produce a chip or die (a sensor is a fancy chip) the mask is used to photolithographically etch the various patterns, and the die is diced out of the wafer and mounted in a package to be handled and used in producing whatever you are making.

    Nikon makes the masks (they may borrow or "license" someone else's as a starting point)
    Nikon specifies the formula for etching and depositing
    Nikon designs and applies the bayer array, microlenses and packaging

    Sony (or Fujitsu or Toshiba, or Intel, or about 50 others) own the Fabs, which cost upwards of $1 billion to build these days. Getting one of these guys to make your chip is the equivalent of saying "Can I borrow your photocopier to make a few copies?"
    If it is a complete Nikon design, the chip is no more Sony's than the copies you make of your document are Xerox's.

    The lines get blurred when Nikon is licensing a existing complete design and only making minor tweaks.

    All that being said, the sensor plays only a small part in making a video. The processor (expeed) does about 90% of the work, the sensor about 10%.
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,049Member
    Ironheart, you are a fountain of knowledge.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,005Member
    edited October 2015
    Meh 4k and 8k, what difference does it make? Mainstream TV buyers are still getting 1080p devices and likely will for years due to the cost of high resolution TV's and screens.
    http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE42UMS-42-Inch-Ultra-Model/dp/B00VJ5X7L4/
    This 4K unit is only $449, and the price will continue to drop.
    I buy the $h!4 out of these for commercial use, they work great as monitors too.
    If you want a crappy TN panel, running at 50/60Hz go for it, on the other hand if you want TV/Monitor worth looking at, you need to be willing to pay more. I don't see a 4k TV/monitor available today worth buying that is under $800.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • SnowleopardSnowleopard Posts: 244Member
    Meh 4k and 8k, what difference does it make? Mainstream TV buyers are still getting 1080p devices and likely will for years due to the cost of high resolution TV's and screens.
    http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE42UMS-42-Inch-Ultra-Model/dp/B00VJ5X7L4/
    This 4K unit is only $449, and the price will continue to drop.
    I buy the $h!4 out of these for commercial use, they work great as monitors too.
    If you want a crappy TN panel, running at 50/60Hz go for it, on the other hand if you want TV/Monitor worth looking at, you need to be willing to pay more. I don't see a 4k TV/monitor available today worth buying that is under $800.
    The problem with that theory is that in most cases, unless the manufacturer is really cheap, your low end 4k panels will have better image processors than their 1080p counter parts...... and the panels themselves are improved over the panels of the previous generation.

    ||COOLPIX 5000|●|D70|●|D700|●|D810|●|AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D|●|AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D|●|AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G|●|AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D|●|AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED (Silver)|●|AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E III|●|PB-6 Bellows|●|EL-NIKKOR 50mm f/2.8||
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    Meh 4k and 8k, what difference does it make? Mainstream TV buyers are still getting 1080p devices and likely will for years due to the cost of high resolution TV's and screens.
    http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE42UMS-42-Inch-Ultra-Model/dp/B00VJ5X7L4/
    This 4K unit is only $449, and the price will continue to drop.
    I buy the $h!4 out of these for commercial use, they work great as monitors too.
    If you want a crappy TN panel, running at 50/60Hz go for it, on the other hand if you want TV/Monitor worth looking at, you need to be willing to pay more. I don't see a 4k TV/monitor available today worth buying that is under $800.
    The problem with that theory is that in most cases, unless the manufacturer is really cheap, your low end 4k panels will have better image processors than their 1080p counter parts...... and the panels themselves are improved over the panels of the previous generation.

    Yup. And unless you are playing video games, 99% of what you look at is a static image. There is very little 120hz 4K content out there. By the time there is, the price will drop. Buy now, have fun!
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    I suspect there are a few of us who have a belief in static images in their own right. While video is often quite entertaining, I prefer to capture a moment in time, easily viewed by anyone, able to be printed in a hard copy, and something one can just sit and examine allowing one's fantasy to carry them to many places.

    Does this mean I have no idea how to get video on either of my cameras? LOL

    Except by accident, of course ;)
    Msmoto, mod
  • SnowleopardSnowleopard Posts: 244Member
    Way back when... before 1080p came out I played around with professional video editing using Panasonic Brodcast grade video camera's and did editing with Video Toaster on an Amiga.

    I have personally owned handy cam's and what ever canon's equivalent is...... Then I got a Go Pro hero 3+ black edition (shoots 4k) in a limited fashion.

    Then I played with video on the D810......

    There is something to be said for better video formats on better sensors.

    The Go Pro is nice when there is enough light...... the cell phone syndrome........ oooohhhh woowwwwww.... Then when the "light" starts disappearing or at night...... This is some noisy (Insert what ever you want here)

    Then low light video with the D810....... no comparison. If I could afford $10,000 for a entry level pro grade video camera (Not a canon) I would jump on it..... For now, the D810 simply puts all the consumer grade video camera's to shame when it comes to noiseless video at night.

    I feel like all those other camera's where a waste of money, the only advantage the Go Pro has is it is small; but it looses that advantage with the 15 minute battery life..... lol
    ||COOLPIX 5000|●|D70|●|D700|●|D810|●|AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D|●|AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D|●|AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G|●|AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D|●|AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED (Silver)|●|AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E III|●|PB-6 Bellows|●|EL-NIKKOR 50mm f/2.8||
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,293Member
    WestEndFoto that makes two of us, I have probably shot about that much video as well. Go Pro cameras are a lot of fun to play around with. Kind of reminds of a toy like the Sony A7 line. When I play baseball, ice hockey or go snowboarding somebody usually has their trusty Go Pro with them. I wouldn't mind maybe picking one up, but then again I am definitely not a video guy.
  • paulrpaulr Posts: 1,176Member
    The sound imput on the D810 has improved when using the camera in Video mode.
    I use an XL Mic and the Atomos Ninja Blade and get excellent quality results.The DOF that the Nikon Lenses can produce give great effects and of course on Post Production Final Cut Pro 10 with the thousands of add-on Plug-ins make film making an unlimited procedure.
    Camera, Lens and Tripod and a few other Bits
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,005Member

    Yup. And unless you are playing video games, 99% of what you look at is a static image. There is very little 120hz 4K content out there. By the time there is, the price will drop. Buy now, have fun!
    It has nothing to do with video games. You get what you pay for, and an IPS panel is worth it, particularly for still image work. TN panels have terrible colour accuracy, and are often over saturated no matter how well you calibrate them. So yeah, go for it if that's okay with you. If not, don't waste your money.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • FreezeActionFreezeAction Posts: 819Member
    edited October 2015
    Nikon will do what Nikon feels they need to do to make a profit. I need images I can take to print to earn a share of a 40+ billion dollar a year printed media images. The $40 billion dollar a year was printed in the "Digital Output" magazine a month or so ago. That was a stat from 2012. If I was looking for an earnings from video I'd get the best affordable video camera I could without still mixed in. There is really no way I can think that Nikon is losing anything to anyone. Nikon and Canon both have differing revenue streams not shared with the other. I have not seen Canon eyeglasses yet nor Nikon large format printers. I can't start any rumors as I don't know what Nikon is thinking or why. I do know one thing for fact. I get a lot more pleasure seeing photos I've taken on the wall than the videos from a camcorder that is the evening news quality video. Even, (not if), 16k video is common I'd prefer the prints hang on the wall.
    Post edited by FreezeAction on
  • Dominique_RDominique_R Posts: 27Member
    We are all getting excited about the new D5 and possible D400 with 4K video. yet other manufactures are testing Min 8K up to 16k, Are Nikon falling behind in the cutting edge of technology? It would seem that the "K" race is becoming like the "Pixel" race.
    I don't care about video. I'm a photographer. Anyone genuinely interested in motion footage at 4K, 8K, 16K, 32K and the like, should get themselves a video camera.
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