On the fence about a move to D4 from D7000

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@ALThomas - your shots look great.

I think your numbers for action shooting doesn't look too out of line, but for static setups might be disappointing. "Keepers" might be improved by changing your auto-focus points and depending on when you bought the D7000, early models did get a performance boost from adjustment from the factory, mine did and it was spectacular afterwards. (Side story - I used lens adjust for each lens in the inventory - it worked, but the adjustment was what I _should have done_.) Mine was out of warranty and the cost to adjust, clean and inspect was less than $80. (Another aside, Nikon recommends this service every two years.)

I also have Thom Hogan's Guide and it's very nice and highly recommended.

With that as 7crossing said, we love spend OPM (other people's money). :-)

But we didn't ask, how much do you have to spend and will you get your investment back? And maybe more importantly, does it matter that you do? That is to say, is this a business that you have pencil costs and revenues or a hobby that you can play and a good time with?

A D4 would be a hobbyist's dream machine, but it could be a businessman's nightmare. A D4 with no accountability is terrific. But the care and feeding of that puppy with all the accessories it will need and making sure it's paying it's way is another thing, especially for a part-timer.

If you've been satisfied with your work and so has your customers, I'd hold off your jones for a new camera for a while longer. Money in your pocket is always better than in someone else's pocket.

Spend a little on guides like Hogan's and others. Keep this in mind, too, the more you know (and I think you're quite knowledgeable), the harder it is to get smarter, e.g., if you already know 95% of a book, if you have to read the whole thing and use it in practice to get that pesky 5% that really makes your pictures special.

After that small investment in your noggin, but big investment in your time and shooting (and it will be big), you'll know what to do.

Good luck and my best,

Mike

sevencrossing

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-D3S-12-1-DSLR-Mint-Condition-Very-Low-Shutter-NOT-D3-D4-D800-D600-1DX-5D-/360718409582?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item53fc7e1f6e

6212 actuations - that took 10 seconds and there are plenty of others out there.

It went for £1674 less than a new D4; a significant saving but no guarantee

While I my experience of e bay is very good; for cameras I use professionally, I would rather pay the extra and buy new, that said, if I only did photography for my own amusement, I might well be tempted

bland

@ALThomas after seeing your low light basketball shots the D4 would be your best choice but you can still get good pictures from a D800.

I'm surprised at how good your D7000 took those, pretty impressive!

Ironheart

Nikon USA store:
D3s (Refurbished)
$3,350.

KnightPhoto

Hi Al,

Nice photos. I have gone D200, D300, D700, D7000, D4, and D800E in that order. Currently I still have the D4/D800E. I'm a low-light Theatre shooter as well as a birder - two extreme needs that don't share a heckuva lot in common ;-)

For low-light Theatre the D7000 AF gave me real nightmares and cost me keepers. It wasn't consistent and would simply grab on the background when I least expected it. For birding it was a competent enough camera that I sold my D300. But all my D300, D700, D4, and D800E AF have operated effectively in Theatre (and even the D200). The D4 is particularly competent in this regard as you might well expect. The high ISO in the D4 is about 1.5 to 2 stops better, than the D7000 which is a HUGE advantage. I've read that D4 low light AF is more dependable than D3S too (but I never shot the D3S). I do some sales in Theatre so I couldn't rely on the D7000 for paid events as it would miss what should have been keepers at times. I'm extremely happy with the D4 in this regard.

For Theatre I don't need the killer FPS, but I do use that aspect of the D4 for Birding, and again it delivers royally in that regard. I only recently sold my D7000, because it simply was not getting used much once I had the D800E which of course has the same digital reach as the D7K but better sensor and better AF.

Based on my experience with the D4/D7000 cameras I would not look back and hesitate to get the D4. For what you do it should be the bomb. Like you my primary lenses are 24-70 and 70-200 (and 500VR for Birding).

Photobug

Question for KnightPhoto.

Great post full of good points. Do you use your D800E in crop mode with that 500mm lens for birding or shot in FX mode?

I have given up on Nikon introducing a replacement for the D300 and have sold my D300. Now that Nikon will introduce the D5300 and D610 and NO D400, I am going to evaluate the D7100 and D800 and keep my DX lens. I don't need the 36 MP but do want the larger buffer, more FPS, larger body, better AF, larger buffer. Interested in your thoughts.

I have these lens: Nikon 17-55mm F/2.8, Nikon 35mm F/2, Nikon 105mm macro, Nikon 70-200mm F/2.8 (not the latest, one version back), and a Tamron 200-500mm for birding.

Thanks in advance.

DenverShooter

I started with a D7000 and then purchased the D4 and then the D800E. I carry all of them (not in the same case, too much weight) and the step up from the D7000 (a good machine if there ever was one) pretty much rocked my world. I can shoot at impossible ISO's with the D4 and get usable images all day long. Focusing is fast, faster and speed of light fast. And talk about 10 FPS... Whole different league of shooting capability.

Still use the D7000...

Denver Shooter

Golf007sd

@DenverShooter: I think you and I have sailed on the same ship. D7000--->D4. The D800/D800e sure have my attention as well. But I'm going to put those funds toward a big gun....not the 800mm like you buddy but after having my hands on msmoto's 400 2.8 I'v been having dreams of it. She keep telling me to go with the 300 2.8 however.

TaoTeJared

Last two weeks I have wanted (and saw a need) for a D4 - the two weeks before that I loved having my D800 and the D4 would have been stretched quite a bit. Last weekend I just wanted to upgrade to the new Fuji X100s for the AF (X100 does stink at times - and it was one of those.) Other days I want a Leica M9 or Monochrome for the utter simplicity. Today driving I had my D300 and the cr@&* 24-120 old vr and got some really good shots. Makes me remember the camera and lens are better than what I give them credit for and what I thought was the bees knees for many years is still really good.

In any given day I will be shooting something and that at that moment, I know there is a piece a hardware (lens, flash, camera, modifier, etc.) that is perfectly suited for what I'm doing and would make my life much easier. I priced out for fun a "dream list" of all the lenses, cameras, equipment, software, etc, that I wished I had over the last year and my cart tipped over $150,000. (used Leica and MedFmt stuff in there as well.) Photography is a game and the art of trade-offs. I tend to buy for what I shoot/use most, or will error the least with. I may end up with a D4 at some point but I know I will still have my D800 for many years (4-5+) for sure. At iso 400 on down, no DSLR can match it, and I still have yet to have a printer or anything else needing something more than it produces. If I shot sports all the time or very low light, I would have a D4 for sure - but that's not my game (at least for now).

DenverShooter

The 400mm F/2.8 is a magical piece of glass. I rented one before I purchased mine and I remember being knocked out when I looked at the images. And that drove me to buying one and I haven't regretted it.

And yes its big and heavy but it takes really great images.

Denver Shooter

obajoba

I too went from a D7000 -> D4. I wouldn't change that decision for anything. I have sold exactly one photo in my life and shoot as a hobby only. I still wouldn't make a different choice if I were to do it over again.

I do, however, think I need to go hangout with @DenverShooter (since we're in the same city and all) so that I can try out the 400 and 800mm lenses

DenverShooter

Burrowing Owls at the airport at 6 AM tomorrow. PM me if you are interested.

Denver Shooter

DenverShooter

Last call for burrowing owls at Denver International Air port at 6 AM. Might get to play with my Trinity (400mm F/2.8, 600mm F/4 and 800 mm F/5.6 ) if you are really nice. PM me...

Denver Shooter

Golf007sd

@DenverShooter: get on one of those flights to San Diego. I will pick you up our airport and we can go shooting all the birds you want here. Just think about the setting sun with the birds flying all around.

Photobug

DenverShotter said:
I started with a D7000 and then purchased the D4 and then the D800E. I carry all of them (not in the same case, too much weight) and the step up from the D7000 (a good machine if there ever was one) pretty much rocked my world. I can shoot at impossible ISO's with the D4 and get usable images all day long. Focusing is fast, faster and speed of light fast. And talk about 10 FPS... Whole different league of shooting capability.

Your the third person to suggest I move up to the D4. You need deep pockets for that body.

Photobug

DenverShooter, it's a good thing I don't live near Denver, otherwise I would have met you for some pictures. That would have been expensive..probably cost me buying one of those great lens you shoot.

Obajoba...all these terrific comments on people moving up to the D4. Now your making me stop and think if I should look at one. A friend of mine who is a pro is selling his D4 with 18,000 clicks on it for $4,500. He just got it back from Nikon for a cleaning. Maybe I should check it out.

Golf007sd

D4 for $4,500....jump on it. I got my for $5000. Do IT!!!!

Gitzo

Heartyfisher said;
the D4 is THE sports shooters camera. really there is nothing better by a long shot !
- See more at: http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/1474/on-the-fence-about-a-move-to-d4-from-d7000#sthash.fbAvhIOB.dpuf

I agree with this.......IF......money is no object, IF.......you have sufficient need for the D4's capabilities to "justify" having that amount invested, in relation to what your plane to do with it. (probably the main reason I don't own a D4)



Hallvardk said;
The previous posts have pretty much nailed it, but I would say that an upgrade to a D3s would be enough of an upgrade. Use the extra cash on lenses (save up for an old 300 2.8, or a 14-24). If you can do all of your assignments with the lenses you have, and don't feel a need to add anything else, by all means go for the D4. It's gonna blow your mind away. - See more at: http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/1474/on-the-fence-about-a-move-to-d4-from-d7000#sthash.fbAvhIOB.dpuf

Best answer so far, IMHO; I think exactly like Hallvardk; even if I was in exactly the same situation as the OP, I would buy a "re-furb" D3s in a heartbeat ! I'm well aware of the advancement from the D3s to the D4; I still can't imagine anyone needing more low light / high ISO performance than the D3s has. The thing is amazing....remarkable....fabulous......but it's STILL a full frame sensor; for many people, having a APS-C crop frame sensor is "good enough"; ( I know a BUNCH of people who dearly love their little Canon SX-50's ) I gave up trying to "advise" others what camera they "need" a long time ago; if the individual needing the camera is un-clear as to what they need, (and being the ONLY person knowing THEIR "circumstances", it's a lead-pipe cinch that I, (nor anyone else), will not know either. Let's face it; it's no secret what ANY camera (or lens) sells for; IMO, making the necessary decision to spend in excess of $5,000 USD on ANYTHING, is a decision that requires a lot of very careful consideration of ALL the circumstances. OTOH......did you just win the lotto ? then, by all means, buy one of EVERYTHING !

Photobug

Gitzo & Golf007SD - Thanks for your input. My first thought was that $4,500 for this specific D4 was an excellent deal and a great way to get a great camera. Condition is excellent and just cleaned by Nikon, I would be set for years.

Then I started thinking about the big picture and realized I need to replace my primary DX 17-55mm wide angle zoom lens if I got the D4. Now we are into big number...more than I want to invest and bigger than my slush fund that feeds my photography equipment. I wish money was no object.

Back to square one.

Golf007sd

@Photobug: This move does come at a price. Yet, please keep in mind: 1) you will still be able to use all your lenses with the D4 (as I'm sure you know). 2) If he is a good friend, try to work out a deal with him regarding his D4. Half down/half later or something within that range. 3) Keep an eye out for good FX lens deals...get one within a focal length that you feel you will use the most (35, 24-70, 85, etc..). 4) Should this one pass you by, have no fear, their will always be one to purchase....time is on your side.

Post some images on PAD so I..correction, .we can see your work.

Cheers...

Photobug

Thanks for your perspective on a move to a D4. It makes sense and your right, I know my DX lens will work on the D4.

Okay, need your help. I have seen several comments since joining this forum about posting images on PAD. What is PAD? Stupid question...but knowledge is king.

spraynpray

Go back a page and look for Photo-A-Day....

heartyfisher

Its an exclusive area only available by special invitation like in a Playboy's PAD ..

;-)

Photobug

Thanks spraynpray and thanks for the laugh heartyfisher.

I will post a couple of pictures.

obajoba

Dang, I missed DenverShooter's offer as I was out of town for the weekend. Perhaps another time though.