Sony A7r and its Impact on Future Nikon Bodies

13»

Comments

  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    Thanks for the video, Golf. It has an interesting issue which some may not have recognized....a "continuity error" in that the close up of the camera has the Sony guy in a different suit. LOL

    I think I will wait for the Nikon version with "F" mount so I can use the lenses I have on hand.
    Msmoto, mod
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    Msmota said:

    I think I will wait for the Nikon version with "F" mount so I can use the lenses I have on hand.

    The camera will be fatter due to the longer flange focal distance.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    Most likely any mirrorless body will have a flange to sensor distance of maybe 30mm. The "F" Lenses will work with an adaptor like the FT-1
    Msmoto, mod
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    As much as like the concept of the A7r as much the only one thing that doesn't make me buy it (apart from cash shortage :)) is the fact it's SONY. I had the NEX-5 couple years back and it was so immature camera that dropped price with same speed as rocket reaches the atmosphere that I doubt I'll risk once again.... though certainly I'll go and try it. Last weekend, my good friend was attending workshop with Tomasz Tomaszewski (NG photographer since the beginning of 90s) and TT was testing the new a7 and was very impressed with it.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    Msmoto said:
    Most likely any mirrorless body will have a flange to sensor distance of maybe 30mm. The "F" Lenses will work with an adaptor like the FT-1

    I wonder what they will call the format that would not need the adapter. FC (compact)?
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    I would not see anyone producing a mirrorless camera body which has a 46.5mm flange to focal plane distance. The primary reason for this was to allow the mirror to not hit the lens. Thus, I would suspect on a mirrorless body this distance would be more like a Leica M mount....27.8mm.
    Msmoto, mod
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited October 2013
    TaoTeJared ........Sony is rich with cash .......


    From the BBC

    Japanese electronic giant Sony has slashed its full-year profit forecast by 40% as it continues to struggle

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24753856



    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    @sevencrossing - profit and cash though connected are not the same. sony is a BIG company and they do have cash, especially if they really want to put something on the market.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,454Member
    Sony had better hope that the A7 and A7r do well, the imaging division lost $24 million this past quarter.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    In their imaging division, Sony has three business lines under threat: the point & shoot business (like Nikon), the camcorder business, and the pro video business. The first two are struggling against smart phones. The last is struggling vs. the likes of RED and BMC.

    Most of last quarter's loss is attributed to weak video camera sales. So Sony's first priority has to be internal consolidation / finding structural synergies between these disparate business lines in the imaging division.

    Nikon's camera business is simpler in comparison. They have a bit more options, but if they're not careful they will also face severe structural problems.
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    every single P&S camera company is struggling nowadays against smart phones
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    I think the Coolpix A points the way to Nikon's (and Canon/Sony) point and shoot future. Unless there is a quality improvement that the Coolpix A offers (and it fits in my pocket), people will be happy with a smart phone - perhaps with a funny looking lens hooked up to it. Reminds me of the guy I saw in Yellowstone zooming through his binoculars with his I Phone telling me that DSLR's were a waste of money.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,592Member
    edited November 2013
    Today I got 15 minutes of play time with the A7 and a great Sony Sales representative. Nice size. Sony, Tamron, and KEH were at the largest camera store in town today and tomorrow. I saw the catalog with 6 new lens coming in the first 6 months of 2014. There is such a storage of A7 and A7R that salesman can only have one but not both cameras.

    It was explained how the kit lens was developed to allow the A7 & kit lens to be sold for $2,000. There are a number of wide angle lens coming early 2014. Sony has committed to releasing 16 new lens for the A7 & A7R by mid 2015. There are some nice F/4 and F/2.8 lens in development.

    Liked what I saw for a small FF camera. I prefer Nikon lens quality over Sony and since I have several G mount lens and some with aperture rings buying two different lens converters to allow the use on the A7 is not cost justified for me.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • BesoBeso Posts: 464Member
    every single P&S camera company is struggling nowadays against smart phones
    Absolutely true and one reason P&S camera companies should be partnering with cell phone manufacturers. The fact that more than 350 million pictures are posted to Facebook daily is an indicator that ease and speed of posting is of significantly more value to the average consumer than quality photography and image quality.
    Occasionally a decent image ...
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,454Member
    edited November 2013
    Canon, and Nikon, actually already are partnering with cell phone manufactures. Sony already is, because they are making the sensors for a good number of the cell phones.

    Some how or another Nikon still estimating sales of at least 12 million P&S cameras for the year, significantly more than any of the others. I don't know how Nikon does it, since other than the AW cameras and the P330/P8700 they are all crap. I see also have noticed that the S9xxx series of compact super zoom cameras is popular.

    If anything Sony is the company hurting the most from this. Why? They not only sell P&S cameras, but make the sensors for most of them as well (aside from Canon and Panasonic who develop their own). I suspect that they make up for it by being one of the leading sensor manufactures for cell phones though.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,592Member
    This is an update to my November posting on the Sony A7.

    The local camera dealer had a Sony sponsored event yesterday and today. Two Sony representatives, one was at B&H earlier in the week and one from Louisville, KY. The model drove in from Chicago. They had a nice back drop set up for the model and lots of stuff to photograph with her.

    Sony had four A7's and one A7R for customers to use. After a 10 minute lesson on how to use the camera we were turned lose to take photos. I used the A7 with the Carl Zeiss Sonnar FE 35mm F2.8 lens for 35 minutes and a Canon 105mm macro lens attached using one of the mount adaptors. After the photo shoot I got to pick my best shot and it was entered into the Sony A7 photo contest.

    Here are my comments on my experience.

    Liked the size and location of the controls, especially the aperture knob and shutter speed wheel. Ergonomics was really good. The wifi connection was really nice. The knob on top that allows you to make exposure adjustments (+ or -) is in a great location. Did not have to move my eye from the finder to make the adjustment. Overall, really great ergonomics.

    The first 30 plus minutes was spent with the Carl Zeiss lens with AF on in manual mode. My white balance was set to 5300 to match the LED lights. Liked the lens body balance. Picture quality on the LCD panel looked good and when enlarged on the laptop was fine. Adjusting exposure was good and and the ISO scale is in the bottom display in the view finder.

    Switched to the macro lens, Sony representative put the macro lens on the adapter and we switched lens. For five minutes I shot lots of close ups and some model shots. Oh that AF is so so so so slow. Totally not acceptable. Talked to the Sony representative and we switched the lens from AF to manual mode and he went into the menu and turned Focus Peaking on. Rather than use the screen to determine when the subject was in focus, the Focus Peaking function worked very well. When you rotate the focus collar on the lens and you are in focus, the area shows red. As you shift focus, the red flashing area moves. Very very nice. And yes, I preferred the manual focus process to AF. The focus peaking made a lot of difference.

    I switched back to Zeiss lens and turned int my photos and went though them to pick my best three shots and then the best overall.

    Played with the A7r for five minutes and grabbed a book and the price sheet. No special pricing, which surprised me.

    I enjoyed my 45 minutes with the new Sony A7. The Sony representative spoke the company line about all the new lens planned over the next 15 months. Sony is committed to expanding their number of lens for these two cameras and he spoke about what lens are in the planning stage. I also saw one individual pull a lens out of his Canon bag and asked them to mount it on an adapter so he could use it on the A7 and he was told no, that lens will not work on any adapter.

    One of the issues I had with the shutter release was it's sensitivity. I am so use to the Nikon shutter release, press half way down to lock exposure and focus then recompose and take the picture. Many times..actually too many times as I was holding the shutter half way down to recompose the A7, the shutter would go off before I had the composition I wanted. This would take some getting use to. The firm stop Nikon uses has me spoiled. And yes, you can set a button for back focus.

    Overall the camera body is really good. Would I sell my Nikon system and buy the Sony A7R or A7. Absolutely NOT. If I had the $$$$$ and wanted a smaller DSLR for business trips or to drop into my wife's purse, it would get a serious evaluation. But I would also evaluate Nikon's mirrorless body and compare to the full frame A7/A7R.

    Most manufacturers do not print product literature books. The A7 A&R book is outstanding.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • mikepmikep Posts: 280Member
    i think it looks really interesting this a7r

    it isnt a system like canon or nikon, it wont have lazer fast 70-200s, it wont have fish eyes, or tiltshifts, so it just doesnt have the lenses to back it up, nor the lighting systems, and so on

    but i do see this as the future. i dont see the need for the mirror these days, it just makes cameras larger, lenses larger, it creates more moving parts. surely a mirror/viewfinder is more expensive to produce than a sensor/EVF combo. so i think mirrors will die out. do they produce any benefit ?

    as a walk around camera, or even a landscape one, or even a portrait one, i can see this being great. maybe not this generation, but the next one or two that show up - the a8r, or a9 maybe ?!

    i see it as a way to shoot some interesting m-mount lenses (which will last for decades), without having to waste $5000 on a leica body that will be more or less worthless in 5 years due to the digital technology inside it becoming obsolete

  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    @Photobug - interesting to see your experience. I have played with the A7 a bit but not to an extent to have a well formed opinion on it. There is a Sony A7 day coming to my area soon as well. I may just have to check that out.
    Was the focus just bad with the adapter or was is really slow without as well.

    Sony's Focus peeking is by far the best I have seen. I really do believe they made those with the mindset many Leica glass owners will slap them on the bodies.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,592Member
    @Photobug - interesting to see your experience. I have played with the A7 a bit but not to an extent to have a well formed opinion on it. There is a Sony A7 day coming to my area soon as well. I may just have to check that out.
    Was the focus just bad with the adapter or was is really slow without as well.

    Sony's Focus peeking is by far the best I have seen. I really do believe they made those with the mindset many Leica glass owners will slap them on the bodies.
    Thanks for asking for clarification. The focus speed with the Canon lens was very slow with the adapter. I basically gave up and switched to manual focusing with Focus Peeking and beating the AF function. The AF focus speed with the Zeiss lens was just fine.

    Strongly recommend that you take advantage of the Sony A7 day. I did not know they were taking reservations and just walked in but only had to wait about five minutes. I also got there about 10 minutes before the official start time.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
Sign In or Register to comment.