Nikon Df General Discussion

moreorless

To be honiest if you'd showed me those promo films a few months ago I'd have guessed the Df would be closer to $4000, it was really only that it was following hot on the heels of Sony's cheaper A7 that made me think it would likely be somewhat affordable.

I'm sure they'll take some of the "Leica market" if they can get it but I suspect the Df was more a reaction to camera's like the Fuji X series, specifically Nikon FX users buying those cameras. Obviously it both costs and weighs more than those mirrorless options but it does bring down toe size/weight difference a bit and benefits from using the same lens system(an X-pro 1 plus a couple of lenses wouldn't be much less) while offering superior performance and the same kind of retro look/controls.

sideways

The market is pretty unforgiving of mistakes. I like the sensor, like the look, but early adopter pricing is silly. I'll park this and take another look in a year. Sensor performance probably won't have moved on too much so it will still be relevant for an amateur once they position it properly. Of course if someone else gets a compelling FF mirorless into the market between times then they will have missed their window.

My bet is that the price will collapse within 6 months ...

shawnino

Price only collapses if they make too many. If it's a limited, test run to start, there shouldn't be an inventory glut.I'm not sure who's buying, but the D3X price has not truly collapsed like, say, the V1's did.

TaoTeJared

I have to laugh and this is reminiscent of almost every thread when a new camera is announced.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!
Nikon Doesn't know what they are doing!
What are they Smoking!
I like it.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!
There is no market for this!
Oh yeah forgot that the USA doesn't include VAT.
I like it.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!
I'm Getting something else!
Why would I get this over that?
I like it.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!
They will go out of business if they keep this up!
Who would want this!
I like it.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!
I can get this, this, this, and this, for the same price!
This is an abomination!
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!

LOL )

Df = $2,750
16mp FX sensor (other option D4 $6,000)
FX sensor (other options D4 $6,000, D800 $2,800, D610 $2,500, D600 <$1,600)
High quality Low light High ISO Performance (Other options, D4 $6,000, 5dmkIII $3,400, Canon EOS-1D X $6,800)
Sony DSC-RX1 = $2,800 (Drawback Single focal length (but good one))
Sony SLT-A99 = $2,800 24mp
Sony Alpha a7R =$2,300 36mp but on sensor Contrast Detection AF
Sony Alpha a7 = $1,700 24mp 5fps on sensor Phase detection AF


This is the greatest performing available light street cam made to date, and it came in under $3,000. Same low light focusing (f8) of the D4/D800. Same low light performance of the D4. AF (except for an additional stop of low light-f8) & Metering is the same as the D7100 that most everyone keeps saying that it is good enough of a camera to replace a D400. 5.5FPS which is only beat by the D4. It's weather sealed, magnesium alloy body, compatible with Nikon flashes, $50 wifi dongle, and so many other things that everyone kept saying they wanted.

So many have been pineing for years for Nikon to make a Retro "Fm" camera with a FX sensor that can use all of Nikon's lenses. And that is the key, Lenses! They didn't try to make everyone buy all new glass!

Adamz has a good point in saying that he can get a Sony a7 with a zeiss lens + for the same price. I look at it the opposite way - I don't have to invest at all into another system. No more lenses, different filters, different accessories, different flashes, etc. I have priced out almost every system out there, and to match the quality of glass I have with my Nikon equipment and a basic prime set, it would cost $3,000, and none of those systems would come close to the performance of this one.

spraynpray

Aw, don't come round here with your logic and facts, we're having a good time moaning! :-))

paulr

Looks to me like another Nikon V1 mistake, no doubt time will show. Wonder why Nikon thinks that looking at the past is better than looking at the future. Clearly they need to look at there marketing Strategy.

rbrylawski

I'm with Msmoto......It's cute. I like the retro look. But I don't buy a camera for it's look. I buy a camera for the output and for less money, Nikon makes other cameras as or more capable. I guess nostalgia sells, but not to me........

Symphotic

I have to laugh .... I have priced out almost every system out there, and to match the quality of glass I have with my Nikon equipment and a basic prime set, it would cost $3,000, and none of those systems would come close to the performance of this one. ....

Well, you are right, of course. But I'm still waiting for next year. Maybe they'll have the gold plated bodies by then...

tc88

@TTJ, let's correct some of the facts you presented.

Price. Df $2750. D610 $2000 (not $2500 as you mentioned).

Build quality. I don't think Df is full Magnesium as D4/D800. It's comparable to D600 instead.

Sensor. Nikon's 16, 24, 36MP are a wash in low light noise. If anything, D600/D800's images down sampled to 16MP may have less noise. I believe yourself boasted before how impressive D800's low light quality is. The 16MP choice in D4 is dictated by the fps requirement and processing power of EXPEED3.

AF. I don't think the 39pt is known for low light accuracy. D4 is great as a low light camera because it has the 51pt AF.

Now let's compare Df with D800. Price (wash). Sensor (wash). AF (D800 better). Build (D800 better).

If we compare Df with D600. Sensor (wash). AF (wash). build (wash). Price (D610 better).

So I think it's obvious how Df compares to the other Nikon FX cameras other than the retro look.

Of course, if someone wants to buy a camera that makes one look good taking pictures, I don't think people care.

Photobug

framer....What! American Association of Retired Photographers, AARP.... What's the problem?

Never heard AARP called that. Thanks for the chuckle.

Photobug

Tao is spot on. Great points.

Also agree that the price will collapse within 6 months and by a year with the second price drop they will be harder to get and Nikon will be smiling. )

NSXTypeR

I think all speculations about whether this camera is for you or not, we need to give admin a round of applause.

He was spot on with the news!

Symphotic

I think all speculations about whether this camera is for you or not, we need to give admin a round of applause.

He was spot on with the news!

Bravissimo!

roombarobot

Cute…..but, I am still missing the point, I guess.

I love it! Well put Msmoto! I too can't quite see the business case for this. Sure, I do really like the design. I really wanted a Nikon FM* back in the day, but had to settle for a cheaper body/system.

That said, if the digital camera market is having troubles because the point-and-shoot sales fell through the floor and the higher end stuff isn't quite selling as well as hoped, what does this do for the company? For the brand?

I think the market needs something much more innovative. Heck, the Sony A7 is over $1,000 less and might be just as much of a camera. Nikon needs to do something more radical!

TaoTeJared

@TTJ, let's correct some of the facts you presented.

How about I help you backtrack that statement.

Price. Df $2750. D610 $2000 (not $2500 as you mentioned).

Opps grabbed the one with the lens price (oooo major mistake there)- big deal, let's see if you can find any real points...

Build quality. I don't think Df is full Magnesium as D4/D800. It's comparable to D600 instead.

It has weather sealing and build equal to the D800. (Paraphrased) One of Nikon's press releases that is reproduced on numourous sites.

Sensor. Nikon's 16, 24, 36MP are a wash in low light noise. If anything, D600/D800's images down sampled to 16MP may have less noise. I believe yourself boasted before how impressive D800's low light quality is. The 16MP choice in D4 is dictated by the fps requirement and processing power of EXPEED3.

They are only a wash In Dxo's inferior testing that where High MP have turned their tests upside down and pretends every image will not be cropped and printed at 8x10. Visit MsMoto's Flickr stream to see what the D4 can do - she has posted tons of images above 1600. My D800 can not get close to the saturation or quality of the D4 above 1600, nor would I ever say so. For street and available light, you live in the span of iso 1600 to whatever ISO you can turn to B&W and still get good images. D800, that stops at 6400 imo. D4 can go 2 stops above that easily.

AF. I don't think the 39pt is known for low light accuracy. D4 is great as a low light camera because it has the 51pt AF.

Straight from Nikons website:

F/8 = D4 & D800 - it is a different tuned AF module from the 39 point one from the D600/7100 - those only go to F5.6.

Now let's compare Df with D800. Price (wash). Sensor (wash). AF (D800 better). Build (D800 better).
If we compare Df with D600. Sensor (wash). AF (wash). build (wash). Price (D610 better).
So I think it's obvious how Df compares to the other Nikon FX cameras other than the retro look.
Of course, if you want to buy a camera that makes you look good taking pictures, I don't think people care.

Would you like to restate that? Information is free, get your facts right before you attack someone's post.

All you saw in my post was that it is an accessory like a purse? I have never met anyone who buys high-end cameras as accessories! It is just an absurd argument that is designed attempt to degrade someone who Chooses to afford one just because they chooses not to. You are implying that anyone who buys this camera should be embarrassed? Give me a break!

Everyone I know, buy high end cameras as tools. If they look great - it is a bonus. I pulled out all the specs that makes it a great system. The fact that it is "retro" is fine by me, but if it was in a D800 or D600 body, I would be just as ecstatic about it. My guess is that everyone would still be beating it up because of the price.

TaoTeJared

The D800 & D4 certainly have more options and I'm willing to bet the D610 may be more comfortable for all day shooting. If you don't have any of those systems already, or if you were ecstatic to finely get away from the film camera dials and have stuff more automated, by all means get one of those systems. If you shoot landscapes, certainly go for the higher MP. If you shoot available light, single AF point, center or spot metered, want something that doesn't scream DSLR... Its a D4 sensor in an more affordable body. Why people dog something they don't like is just baffling to me. And it adds nothing to the conversation.

I just don't get why so many have to believe this camera is in a competition with other Nikon products. It's not, it is another product line. No one would say the D4 and D800 in competition with each other, they are built for different jobs - and of course they overlap in a lot of ways. Each camera system excels at some things and falls short of other systems in other areas. So many have commented to such an extreme degree that since it is not the perfect systems for every type of shooting, and it didn't come in at $1,500 so it is a failure. That is pure baloney.

I clicked on this thread interested in seeing what other specs I may have missed, reviews that have been posted, sample images that are hitting the net, and see links to "hands on" reports.

Instead it is almost 3 pages of people saying they don't want it and pissing and moaning about the price. I don't get why people who don't want something bother commenting on a thread about it. *rant over

How about discussions like:
-I loved Adamz comment comparing it to the Sony a7/r - which is a real option, and would be a great discussion point.
-It is larger than a rangefinder is that really any more intrusive for street photography.
-Maybe questions around if Nikon will release the old "E-Lens" group but updated.
-Nice Pancake lenses like Pentax?
-Best adapters for old off brand glass?
-What old lens model you are looking forward to using?

tc88

@TTJ, let me repeat.

Price. You compared Df price without lens and D610 price with lens. Of couse that's a huge difference. Don't downplay it. You said "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Price!!!!!!!" 6 times. LOL.

Build quality. Why don't you read "Lightweight and ruggedly constructed body with dust-prevention and weather-resistance employing magnesium alloy" on http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d610/features04.htm. That's the same writing as in http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/df/features04.htm. LOL.

Sensor. While D4 probably is better at 12800, I think plenty people agree with me about D800 sensor is better below 6400. And 1600/3200 is plenty of low light.

AF. Read "Seven focus points compatible with f/8" on http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d610/features03.htm. They both just have Multi-CAM 4800. LOL. If you want to argue it's as good as the 51pt in D4/D800, I have to refrain from saying LMAO.

Basically, Df and D610 are in the same class. Tons of people have already realized that. That's why they think it's overpriced.

Yes, information is free, and as you say, I have to laugh. LOL. )

mikep

well, i am looking forward to seein some reviews, but im still not tempted to upgrade my d700

if i was buying now it would be a 5dmk3

i suppose it does fit in with their marketing strategy, of expanding the FX lineup ...

it is nice to see them bringing something different, i just wish it was a little more different

i get your points too TTJ. i think as camera enthusiasts we know what we want, or at least we think we do, so its all too easy to moan when we dont get what we want.

kyoshinikon

I already like what I see and will probably have one by next summer. The price may be a bit out there but Id rate this as more valuable than a D600 based on build, design, and feature set. I would not pay more than $1600 for a D600 based on the fact that every one I used felt like a cheap D7000 knockoff. Image quality was impressive but build and snappiness of controls seemed like a D90 (regardless of what they actually are). Id personally like to pay $2500 for this DF given I get one. Will it go down that mush in a year? I doubt it, but you never know...


AlsoI am one of those too many mpx complainers and I am fine with it! at 23 external hard drives & the last thing I need Is a DSLR that adds a new one every month. Additionally, I am fine in not dumping more into a computer. Ive dumped enough into computers in my life. The 4 fps is the real dealbreaker for me in the D800. For most that is not an issue, for me it is far more important than mpx. I may eventually give in and end up getting one later in its production life but it still would never end up being my go-to camera. The difference between 3fps, 4fps, & 5fps is huge That is why the money I saved up for a D700 replacement ended up going to a D700 and lenses (and the rest to save up for a D4) This DF may have split me over this. The only dislike I immediately have(having not handled it) is the 1/4000 a sec SS.

Why the 70-200mm f/4 for most of the test photos?

henrik1963

@TaoTeJared: US price is on the mark. The UK and Danish price is stupid. 1.5 times the price of a D800 is not going to fly. Other than that you nailed it.

Beso

@TaoTeJared - "This is the greatest performing available light street cam made to date, and it came in under $3,000."
Really? That is a pretty bold statement for a camera that hasn't hit the street yet.
Personally, I like the retro look but there are obviously better camera options for the same money, even fron Nikon. I am still looking for a second body.

spraynpray

@TaoTeJared:

Quote: "All you saw in my post was that it is an accessory like a purse? I have never met anyone who buys high-end cameras as accessories!"

Really? I have, they are out there in huge numbers! If that were not true, Nikon would not have made the DF. I would even go as far as to say that pretty much ALL of the reasons for buying the DF are emotional rather than logical. But, your other point about people who don't intend to get one are not qualified to comment? That is BS mate. Threads will only people agreeing like some mutual admiration society would be pretty dull reading! )

Other than those points, yeah, spot on.

TaoTeJared

@TTJ, let me repeat....Build quality. Why don't you read "Lightweight and ruggedly constructed body with dust-prevention and weather-resistance employing magnesium alloy" on http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d610/features04.htm. That's the same writing as in http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/df/features04.htm. LOL.

Read past the header there buddy - "attain superior dust-prevention and weather-resistant performance equivalent to that of the D800 series"

Sensor. While D4 probably is better at 12800, I think plenty people agree with me about D800 sensor is better below 6400. And 1600/3200 is plenty of low light.

I shoot a D800 every day do you? I don't go above iso 800 for clients unless there is just no choice to add lighting. Even at that iso, the detail and color saturation starts to disappear. A D4 gets me 2-3 stops more and I don't loose either.

Do I need that all the time? Not enough to spend another $6,000. If a back up D610 would already cost me $2,000 - Is it worth another grand to gain the couple of stops etc. oh yeah. I have downloaded, asked and received dozens of D4 files and it matches the D800's iso 800 still at 3200 and 6400 in most lighting. Even with lighting that means I can shoot 1-2 stops higher, lower my flash output, faster recycle times, batteries last longer, and a whole slew of other things. I can't see anything where this doesn't complement a D800.

AF. Read "Seven focus points compatible with f/8" on http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d610/features03.htm. They both just have Multi-CAM 4800. LOL. If you want to argue it's as good as the 51pt in D4/D800,

You get a cookie for showing me the D600 wasn't as cheap as the D7000. And what exactly would someone use this for that requires 51pt system? That is the real question. Birders, sports shooters, dogs chasing cars shooters looking at this? Doubtful.

Basically, Df and D610 are in the same class. Tons of people have already realized that. That's why they think it's overpriced.

Yep - with with the best performing low light sensor to date. What is that worth? The only other option is to spend $6,000. Some understand know how to utilize the tech, some don't. Some have a use for it, some don't.

Golf007sd

Here is am article that compares the Df to the D800.

Phorographylife Df vs D800 article.

With all do respect to all, I really do not see the rational in comparing the D800 to the Df in the first place. These two camera bodies are totally different in almost every way. I truly believer they both serve a different buyer. If purchased, then it is up to the end user in how they utilize it best in their gear line-up.

I also find the comparison, as it relates to price, a mute point. For the feature it has, given its overall design, it's price is very palatable when compared to other bodies in the same category...hence, Leica M9.

Gareth

THE AF IS NOT THE D800 AF, IT ONLY GOES TO -1EV JUST LIKE THE D600, NOT -2EV LIKE THE D800/D4. THE F/8 IS IRRELEVANT.

and yes I had to shout as I have said it numerous times.