Nikon D800s All Discussions

Ironheart

Expeed 4 is rated for 12fps with 24mp sensor, so it should be able to do 8fps with 36mp. If they go to 40mp, you get 7fps, and if 50mp, you get 5.75. My bet is also on 40-45mp, hitting 5-6fps. If they leave the 36 in there expect 7-8.

donaldejose

I think the 24 mp sensor in the D600/D610 is great and should see more uses in other bodies. Nikon could stop production of the D800 just as it has with the D4; simply make some minor modifications to the assembly line and produce a D800 body with a 24 mp sensor, group area auto focusing, Expeed 4, and 11 fps for a D800s. They have the parts, just have to assemble them into the existing D800 body and add a letter to the name number. Or they could put in a 48-50 mp sensor for top mp bragging rights into the D800 body with Expeed 4 and call it the D800x. I do suspect Nikon will produce some iteration of the D800 because they seem to think they can generate excitement and increase sales by offering more bodies.

PB_PM

Expeed 4 is rated for 12fps with 24mp sensor, so it should be able to do 8fps with 36mp.

Even if it is possible to get faster than 5-6FPS, with a 36MP sensor that doesn't mean the buffer/memory cards could keep up.

OnTheRopes

If this is a D800s then its an incremental upgrade, same as D300s, D4s, I can't see them increasing the MP but I can see an increase in frame rate and improvements in AF, EXpeed 4, no AA filter etc

henrik1963

@donaldejose: What is wrong with the D800 sensor? In fact I see very little wrong with the D800 as is.

As others have said: Add WiFi, GPS, Radio Ttriggers and improve AF. I´m not even sure I need an upgrade - damn good camera as is. It is not the D800 holding me back from taking the pictures I want.

Msmoto

@scoobysmak

The DX crop mode is 16 MP but a RAW file, 14 bit lossless, compressed is about 18.6 MB. Thus, shooting DX on a D800s will give a file size about 10% smaller than FX on a D4. About the same number of pixels, but the "1.5 crop factor" which could be handy for long telephoto captures.

Ironheart

@PB_PM, the buffer speed is no problem, that is just RAM, the size of course is what matters here. I agree the memory cards could be the bottleneck, but my estimates show you need just a shade over 500MB/sec to keep up.

OnTheRopes

Perhaps we need a body with interchangeable sensors D4s sensor or D800 sensor at the flick of a switch

donaldejose

henrick1963: Nothing is wrong with the 36mp sensor. It is great. I am just saying Nikon could put the 16 or 24mp sensor in that body and have a variation which would be more different than just a few upgrades to the 36mp sensor. Or if they do have a new 48 or so mp sensor they can put that in and call it the D800x.

PB_PM

Nikon already has too many different body types (SKU), they need fewer models in the inventory not more. The "s" update will simplify production for them a lot, no longer will they need to make two D800 variants.

TaoTeJared

Expeed 4 is rated for 12fps with 24mp sensor, so it should be able to do 8fps with 36mp. If they go to 40mp, you get 7fps, and if 50mp, you get 5.75. My bet is also on 40-45mp, hitting 5-6fps. If they leave the 36 in there expect 7-8.

With all due respect, those numbers are way off. I have never seen anything close to 12fps for 24mp sensors. The D4s has 16mp and that is 11fps. Cut that in half and you get 5.5fps at tops.
The D5300 has the Expeed 4 & 24mp and, to quote Nikon

"Up to 5 fps (JPEG and 12-bit NEF/RAW) or 4 fps (14-bit NEF/RAW)"

I'll venture to guess the buffer is small on the D5300, but in no way will you see a 36mp file get 7+ fps.

heartyfisher

He is talking about the specs of the expeed4 chip .. which does have a throughput of 12 fps 24MP.
I think expeed3 has 6fps 24mp but it looks like Nikon has been able to push that a bit. so we can probably expect that Nikon can do the same for expeed4.

snakebunk

@TaoTeJared: Nikon V3 shows pretty impressive performance with the new chip. I don't know where the bottleneck is but I am sure Nikon can push the fps if they put their mind to it. Maybe not so important for studio photography but for a lot of other situations.

sevencrossing

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This might be as close to a D400 as you get. Although it does seem a shame to have to buy a camera like this to shoot it in DX mode. I'd venture that you may be better off shooting it as a full frame and then cropping.

you might be able to get a few more fps in Dx mode

As I mentioned before, Nikon are bringing out "James Bond" type name plate which will change from D800s to D400 in crop mode

PB_PM

@TaoTeJared: Nikon V3 shows pretty impressive performance with the new chip. I don't know where the bottleneck is but I am sure Nikon can push the fps if they put their mind to it. Maybe not so important for studio photography but for a lot of other situations.

The V3 has two major factors in it's favor, 1. No mirror to get out of the way, 2. Smaller 12bit RAW files.

TaoTeJared

He is talking about the specs of the expeed4 chip .. which does have a throughput of 12 fps 24MP.
I think expeed3 has 6fps 24mp but it looks like Nikon has been able to push that a bit. so we can probably expect that Nikon can do the same for expeed4.

I guess I'm missing that info completely. Is that what the manufacture or Nikon is saying? Either way there isn't a Camera with the Expeed 4 that can do that many FPS and that is the only thing that matters - "actual use" not theoretical.

@TaoTeJared: Nikon V3 shows pretty impressive performance with the new chip. I don't know where the bottleneck is but I am sure Nikon can push the fps if they put their mind to it. Maybe not so important for studio photography but for a lot of other situations.

The V3 has two major factors in it's favor, 1. No mirror to get out of the way, 2. Smaller 12bit RAW files.

Also add it only has an 18mp sensor. All of that Plus many other "software" things equates to a higher fps rate.

snakebunk

PB_PM & TaoTeJared: The V3 has 20 fps and 18 mp. It is impressive performance even with 12 bit images. I think it shows what can be done and that it is possible to push the D800s to something like 8 images per second. But, of course, there can be technical and economical aspects that we are not aware of.

TaoTeJared

It is the file sizes that limit most of it. It seems that some are just not getting that it's not an arbitrary thing. Only so much data can be processed - there is an absolute limit. It is not just "something" that can be tweaked. You can't expect the same amount of water to go through a straw as you do a fire-hose. The same can be said about pumping files through the system.

The one thing that the V3 also can not use the mechanical shutter - that is the main reason it can shoot so fast.
V3 from Nikon:

When the electronic shutter is used: High-speed continuous shooting at the world's fastest* rate of approximately 20 fps for capture of up to 40 shots in approximately two seconds
When the mechanical shutter is used: High-speed continuous shooting at approximately 6 fps for capture of up to 50 shots in approximately eight seconds

Killerbob

Wrong TaoTeJared, if computer development these last 30 years show us anything it is that the technological advances have been non-linear. I would haven't have thought I could get a storage medium in my computer which handles 1000MB/s+. I never throught I would have 12 cores in one CPU. Talk about RAM speeds. And how much have graphics cards come since the Diamond VIper 16MB? Compare that to a 6GB D700...

So, of course you can build buffers etc. that can handle even 36mp pictures at 10fps. I am not saying it is easy, or even a target in the next generation D800, but don't say it is not possible. Of course it is possible, it is mostly a matter of cost effectiveness at the moment, and being able to do it with the constrictions of an existing system.

Ironheart

@TTJ, I'm quoting public specs published by Fujitsu, the makers of the Milbeaut chip that exceed (among others) is based on. It is true that Nikon has yet to release a camera that fully utilizes the spec.
http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/microelectronics/product/assp/milbeaut/
Buffer is just RAM so that is easy, we all agree writing to the card is the bottleneck. Which is why "High speed and intelligent bus arbitration" is part of the Milbeaut 7 (exceed 4) spec.

PB_PM

Regardless of what the processor is able to do, that doesn't mean Nikon has any intention of making the D800s shoot that fast.

Killerbob

And that is the problem. Nikon has the capability and the techincal solutions to put into their cameras, but they milk the cow. To what end? Wouldn't it be just as profitable to provide the solutions, and just charge more? I don't understand the logic. Look at what several computer manufactures do; they push the envelope with every release, and they have more often updates to secure their earnings. Cameras should be the same. Why do Nikons not have WiFi, faster FPS, BT, etc. in them? The solutions are there, and I think it would be different if Canon and Nikon for instance were American or European companies...

PB_PM

Products are build for a price point, they know that if they up the price there will be fewer buyers. Sales are already slumping, the last thing they need right now is major price hikes, to drive ever more buyers away. In any case, Nikon already has a high speed camera the D4s, and it is already more expensive than the D800, so I don't get where you are going with that.

TaoTeJared

@Killerbob - we are talking about a camera that is maybe less than 18 months out - not some theoretical idea.. What chips, shutter mechanisms, CF/SD write speed (in cameras) that Nikon has available now, and has released in the D4s, you are not going to get any more than 1/2 of the D4s.

There is a large misunderstanding that all improvements in electric devices are simple and just some software coding fix or a simple swap like a computer. Out of that comes some weird conspiracy nonsense that Nikon and others are neutering all parts of their devices by a simple choice. Bracketing probably is software but FPS is not at all. The disconnect comes from an actual understanding of what is software driven and what are actual physical limitations along with a lack of realization that these complex devices take years of development to be released. Nothing is just a "simple" change. The camera you buy today was sitting in planning stages 3-5 years ago. The parts used, were developed then or were already "off the shelf" at that time and were "a known" that the system was designed around, not just pulled a few months ago. The amount of development, design, compatibility testing, and all aspects of production takes years, not months. These systems are not like computers where you can swap out a hard drive or a processor for a newer version. Just because today something was announced that is "ground breaking" won't make it into anything for at least 6 months to over a year. To believe that "up to date" means "today" is naive - the newest "up to date" in cameras was created years ago and has finely made it to the new systems.

There are physical limitations. Is there buffer devices that exist? Sure there are. But does that mean one can just dump it into the camera? Of course not. The assumption that it is that simple is false. If that was the case, then why didn't the D4s have that change? Camera's can not be compared to computers or even tablets or laptops.

PB_PM said it correctly -

Products are build for a price point, they know that if they up the price there will be fewer buyers. Sales are already slumping, the last thing they need right now is major price hikes, to drive ever more buyers away. In any case, Nikon already has a high speed camera the D4s, and it is already more expensive than the D800, so I don't get where you are going with that.

snakebunk

@TaoTeJared: I must say that I have never heard of the large misunderstanding you are talking about (and I have been working with software development and hardware integrations for many years). When it comes to the D4s I would guess that the bottleneck for higher fps is the mechanical shutter. Don't you think?

About product strategy I hope Nikon makes the D800s as fast as possible without going to far from the current price point. 6 fps is actually not a bad improvement, but 8 would be even better