D9300 All Discussions

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  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    Yes, and the next generation might just be missing a mirror box
    When the D400 thread was started, it was unrealistic to suggest a mirrorless D400 because mirrorless EVFs and AF was no where near the quality required for a semi-pro camera. But with the progress seen from Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, and if Nikon can add another level of quality, it could happen, couldn't it?
    But would such bodies just be the next iterations of the current F-mount lines, or will there be a completely new line? And a new mount?
    "Nikon 2" ??
    Sure, they want to stay with their F-mount lenses, but a modern mount would provide for a better camera, all other things being equal.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,483Moderator
    No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. They could possibly do that right now to be honest, although the D3300 did raise entry level IQ to a ridiculous level.
    Always learning.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. .
    did they not do this with the Nikon 1?

  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited May 2014
    Sports But would such bodies just be the next iterations of the current F-mount lines, or will there be a completely new line? And a new mount?


    IMHO That, for Nikon, is the $64,000 question
    If they get it wrong, Nikon may go the same way a Kodak

    My gut feeling is, that in 2-5 years time we will see the features of the D800s and D4s ( and may be the D7100) combined in a completely new Mirrorless camera, a new holy trinity, and a new mount
    I think they will also try and reduce the range of camera models, going back to the days the Nikon or Nikormat
    (an F mount adaptor will be available, mainly for super telephones)




    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    My thought. Keep the F mount for DX and FX mirrorless bodies. Just reduce the sensor to flange distance since you no longer have a mirror to take up room. Design some pancake lenses (like 28 and 35 and 50mm with moderate f-stops) to allow for a pocketable camera. A simple and cheap spacer should be able to allow for use of both old and new lenses. The space just has to add the missing sensor to flange distance and pass the electrical current from body to lens (and maybe pass the AF motor drive through to old AF lenses).
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    edited May 2014
    @donaldejose You cannot reduce the flange distance, it would change the focal lengths of all the lenses. Yes you could add an adaptor to use the current lenses, but it would be much easier just to keep the flange distance the same. Advantage, Nikon would not have to update the entire lens lineup just to be fully compatible with the new bodies.

    I don't get the obsession with smaller bodies. I buy bigger cameras on purpose, because they are more comfortable to hold. Nikon could do a lot of things to the bodies, like switching to carbon fibre construction, to reduce weight. Making the camera smaller solves nothing in my mind.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    edited May 2014
    Advantage? Pocketability. Admittedly, a big pocket but nevertheless the convenience of being able to put a thin DX sensor body with a 28mm or 35mm pancake lens into a blazer or jacket or photo vest pocket and still be able to use that same body with other conventional DSLR lenses when desired.

    I am hoping for something like this with a D2XXX series. A D2XXX series should be lighter and smaller than a D3XXX series body so it would be a good place to try eliminating the mirror box.
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    edited May 2014
    Advantage? Pocketability.
    I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable. Even fixed lens compacts with APS-C sensors, like the Coolpix A and Ricoh GR, are too big for that. So the idea that one with interchangeable lenses would be pocketable, with current optical technology is nothing more than a pipe dream.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,483Moderator
    No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. .
    did they not do this with the Nikon 1?

    Clearly not. The Nikon 1 has a smaller sensor and almost no external controls by comparison to a DSLR. It also doesn't use the lenses that your average DSLR enthusiast has already and will need to keep using. It is a point 'n' shoot more than it is a DSLR replacement.
    Always learning.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    Not a shirt pocket. A larger pocket like you find in a blazer or jacket or photo vest. I think a DX sensor body can be made small enough to fit if you thin out the body and mount a pancake style wide angle lens. We will see if it ever happens.
  • TriShooterTriShooter Posts: 219Member
    I am doubtful about being able to shoot anything small, and fast, like a swallow, through an electronic viewfinder, on a small sensor, although I am a huge advocate of the Nikon 1 line which is far better than most people realize.

    When Nikon builds a high end DX camera with excellent ergonomics that includes the latest greatest AF tracking, 8+ fps, and a super sized buffer to replace my old D300 I will buy it, and suspect many others will join me. I am tired of buying things that are almost good enough, intentionally gutted to protect the top end of the Nikon FX line.

    The other thing Nikon could do for an aging SLR population is add a visible microfocusing contrast system for tweaking shots with manual focus, and af-s lenses, or perhaps make a modern version of a TC16A, and versions without the multipliers for manual focus lenses like the the remarkable AIS version of the 85mm ED f/1.4. I have two TC16As modified for using with the current camera line that are a joy to use. It would be peace of mind to know that I could buy them through Nikon who seems to be fixed on functional obsolescence, instead of customer satisfaction, and the inherent loyalty that comes with it.

    Whatever Nikon produces will have to be significantly better than shooting a D800 FF with a battery grip, and cropping. I personally do not care about the price. I care about the product. I want a state of the art, no compromise, DX camera body for shooting wildlife, and I have been waiting a heck of a long time for Nikon to make it.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    I am doubtful about being able to shoot anything small, and fast, like a swallow, through an electronic viewfinder, on a small sensor, although I am a huge advocate of the Nikon 1 line which is far better than most people realize.


    Whatever Nikon produces will have to be significantly better than shooting a D800 FF with a battery grip, and cropping. I personally do not care about the price. I care about the product. I want a state of the art, no compromise, DX camera body for shooting wildlife, and I have been waiting a heck of a long time for Nikon to make it.
    +1 TriShooter. I really don't care about the price but do care about the product.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • kenadamskenadams Posts: 222Member
    I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable [... ] the idea that one with interchangeable lenses would be pocketable, with current optical technology is nothing more than a pipe dream.
    I think the term was used as an analogy here, and who wouldn't agree the difference in size is amazing?? Take a Leica M system, the bodies seem to have gotten bigger by a bit compared to an M3, but the lenses are still tiny! I recently bought a Fuji XE-1 and I love it, for both features and size! I surely cannot literally put it in my pants pocket, but it's about half the size of my (already fairly small) D80.



  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable -

    Photography is an expensive hobby
    I think Manufactures expect us to have deep pockets:)
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    edited June 2014
    "Best of all, it's cheap." Yup, relative inexpensiveness is probably one of the best arguments for Nikon's current high end 24mp DX bodies. With a shutter rated to 150,000 exposures most of us will never wear it out before the update arrives every 3 to 4 years. BUT, what good DX lenses are available to get the most out of that sensor?

    http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24-Mpix-Nikon-D7100-Wide-angle-and-primes-and-zooms

    http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24-Mpix-Nikon-D7100-Telephoto-primes-and-zooms

    http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24M-Pix-Nikon-D7100-Best-standard-and-portrait-primes-and-zooms

    If you want a DX and FX combo, use the D7100 with the D600/610 and many of the same lenses. This is perhaps the best "bang for the buck" from Nikon. Few people need more than this combo can offer. Sure they have some weaknesses (such as the small focus area of the D600/610) but there will be a D7200 and a D620 which can be expected to "fix" some of these weaknesses over time.
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited June 2014
    It is going to get better. It will be a D800S, in DX crop mode
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    BUT, what good DX lenses are available to get the most out of that sensor?
    Not many, but at least it can use the sweet spot of many FX lenses.

    The next thing I am waiting for in a crop camera is the foveon-like improvement in resolution. The 7100 has its short comings but all of them are not deal breakers. The 2 most frustrating to me are the rapid buffer when shooting in non-1.3x mode and the lack of integrated wifi.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    edited June 2014
    Ok. So I've played with my D7100 quite a bit and I pretty much have concluded that the D7100 *is* the D400 that everyone wanted...
    If that were really true, why are people (including some D7100 users) still wanting a D400? The D7100 is still lacking in some important areas, which make it not even remotely close to a true D300s successor.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    I don't disagree. I don't see the need myself, I'm justing pointing out that there are those who disagree.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    Let's hope the D9300 does appear and has a better DX sensor plus lots of other features to justify about a $500 price increase over the D7100. We will see what the remainder of this year brings.
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    ... A 10fps 24mp camera would require the ability to process 240mp/second....
    The Sony A77-II shoots 12 fps at 24 Mp, and it's a 1200$ body based on the same generation processor as Expeed 4. Nikon 1 V3, as well, also processes many more bits than the D4S. With Expeed 3, it was a no go, but it's easy now, and not even expensive. So it looks good for the future, I would say.
    Few people need more than [D7100+D610]
    True, I certainly don't NEED a D300 successor but I'll still buy one as soon as possible because I enjoy using the D300 more than a D7000 or any other camera I've ever used ... not that I've tried all the alternatives.
    Btw, I often buy beer at 6-7 $ a bottle. Again, not because I need it, but because I enjoy it.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,415Member
    But it is really nice to hear PitchBlack report back that in his experience the D7100 is so much better than that D300s and that it is built as well as the numerous D800 bodies he normally uses. His report made me think twice about waiting for a D400 or D9300. I would like to get the latest generation DX sensor and don't need 1 or 2 fps faster. Maybe when I see one refurbished . . .
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    Ok. So I've played with my D7100 quite a bit and I pretty much have concluded that the D7100 *is* the D400 that everyone wanted, and that a D9300 would probably be a niche product.

    Best of all, it's cheap. You can almost buy two of them and a nice lens for the price of a D800 and you can buy almost 6 of them for the price of a D4s. Spend $30 and you can put a lenscoat neoprene cover on it to for even better weather sealing. If you're waiting for a D400 or a D9300, I think you're making a mistake and missing out on a huge bump in image quality.
    +1 and Amen to the last sentence.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    Just a note on historical context, (prior to the Thailand floods) the D400 series (D9xxx now?) has always started the "new" version of a sensor, newest Pro AF from the D#x line, and features. Not sure if that will continue but Nikon sure doesn't change unless.... well I don't think we have ever seen them change.
    My thought. Keep the F mount for DX and FX mirrorless bodies. Just reduce the sensor to flange distance since you no longer have a mirror to take up room. Design some pancake lenses (like 28 and 35 and 50mm with moderate f-stops) to allow for a pocketable camera. A simple and cheap spacer should be able to allow for use of both old and new lenses. The space just has to add the missing sensor to flange distance and pass the electrical current from body to lens (and maybe pass the AF motor drive through to old AF lenses).
    I personally like this idea from @donaldejose - release something like Sony's A7 series, different lenses, but allow for an adapter for older (the "mirror" flange distance) lenses to be used.

    I still say there is room for a Low MP (16mp-ish) High ISO capable DX sensor. Make it a true DX pro or a D4 mini.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 991Member
    @PitchBlack: Why would the D9300 use the same sensor as the D7100? It sounds like a boring and bad idea, and not historically consistent as TaoTeJared pointed out.
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