D9300 All Discussions

Sports

Yes, and the next generation might just be missing a mirror box

When the D400 thread was started, it was unrealistic to suggest a mirrorless D400 because mirrorless EVFs and AF was no where near the quality required for a semi-pro camera. But with the progress seen from Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, and if Nikon can add another level of quality, it could happen, couldn't it?
But would such bodies just be the next iterations of the current F-mount lines, or will there be a completely new line? And a new mount?
"Nikon 2" ??
Sure, they want to stay with their F-mount lenses, but a modern mount would provide for a better camera, all other things being equal.

spraynpray

No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. They could possibly do that right now to be honest, although the D3300 did raise entry level IQ to a ridiculous level.

sevencrossing

No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. .

did they not do this with the Nikon 1?

sevencrossing

Sports But would such bodies just be the next iterations of the current F-mount lines, or will there be a completely new line? And a new mount?


IMHO That, for Nikon, is the $64,000 question
If they get it wrong, Nikon may go the same way a Kodak

My gut feeling is, that in 2-5 years time we will see the features of the D800s and D4s ( and may be the D7100) combined in a completely new Mirrorless camera, a new holy trinity, and a new mount
I think they will also try and reduce the range of camera models, going back to the days the Nikon or Nikormat
(an F mount adaptor will be available, mainly for super telephones)

donaldejose

My thought. Keep the F mount for DX and FX mirrorless bodies. Just reduce the sensor to flange distance since you no longer have a mirror to take up room. Design some pancake lenses (like 28 and 35 and 50mm with moderate f-stops) to allow for a pocketable camera. A simple and cheap spacer should be able to allow for use of both old and new lenses. The space just has to add the missing sensor to flange distance and pass the electrical current from body to lens (and maybe pass the AF motor drive through to old AF lenses).

PB_PM

@donaldejose You cannot reduce the flange distance, it would change the focal lengths of all the lenses. Yes you could add an adaptor to use the current lenses, but it would be much easier just to keep the flange distance the same. Advantage, Nikon would not have to update the entire lens lineup just to be fully compatible with the new bodies.

I don't get the obsession with smaller bodies. I buy bigger cameras on purpose, because they are more comfortable to hold. Nikon could do a lot of things to the bodies, like switching to carbon fibre construction, to reduce weight. Making the camera smaller solves nothing in my mind.

donaldejose

Advantage? Pocketability. Admittedly, a big pocket but nevertheless the convenience of being able to put a thin DX sensor body with a 28mm or 35mm pancake lens into a blazer or jacket or photo vest pocket and still be able to use that same body with other conventional DSLR lenses when desired.

I am hoping for something like this with a D2XXX series. A D2XXX series should be lighter and smaller than a D3XXX series body so it would be a good place to try eliminating the mirror box.

PB_PM

Advantage? Pocketability.

I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable. Even fixed lens compacts with APS-C sensors, like the Coolpix A and Ricoh GR, are too big for that. So the idea that one with interchangeable lenses would be pocketable, with current optical technology is nothing more than a pipe dream.

spraynpray

No way in this world Nikon and Canon would replace their Pro DSLR's with mirrorless cameras without introducing the technology at the cheap DSLR end first. .

did they not do this with the Nikon 1?

Clearly not. The Nikon 1 has a smaller sensor and almost no external controls by comparison to a DSLR. It also doesn't use the lenses that your average DSLR enthusiast has already and will need to keep using. It is a point 'n' shoot more than it is a DSLR replacement.

donaldejose

Not a shirt pocket. A larger pocket like you find in a blazer or jacket or photo vest. I think a DX sensor body can be made small enough to fit if you thin out the body and mount a pancake style wide angle lens. We will see if it ever happens.

TriShooter

I am doubtful about being able to shoot anything small, and fast, like a swallow, through an electronic viewfinder, on a small sensor, although I am a huge advocate of the Nikon 1 line which is far better than most people realize.

When Nikon builds a high end DX camera with excellent ergonomics that includes the latest greatest AF tracking, 8+ fps, and a super sized buffer to replace my old D300 I will buy it, and suspect many others will join me. I am tired of buying things that are almost good enough, intentionally gutted to protect the top end of the Nikon FX line.

The other thing Nikon could do for an aging SLR population is add a visible microfocusing contrast system for tweaking shots with manual focus, and af-s lenses, or perhaps make a modern version of a TC16A, and versions without the multipliers for manual focus lenses like the the remarkable AIS version of the 85mm ED f/1.4. I have two TC16As modified for using with the current camera line that are a joy to use. It would be peace of mind to know that I could buy them through Nikon who seems to be fixed on functional obsolescence, instead of customer satisfaction, and the inherent loyalty that comes with it.

Whatever Nikon produces will have to be significantly better than shooting a D800 FF with a battery grip, and cropping. I personally do not care about the price. I care about the product. I want a state of the art, no compromise, DX camera body for shooting wildlife, and I have been waiting a heck of a long time for Nikon to make it.

Photobug

I am doubtful about being able to shoot anything small, and fast, like a swallow, through an electronic viewfinder, on a small sensor, although I am a huge advocate of the Nikon 1 line which is far better than most people realize.


Whatever Nikon produces will have to be significantly better than shooting a D800 FF with a battery grip, and cropping. I personally do not care about the price. I care about the product. I want a state of the art, no compromise, DX camera body for shooting wildlife, and I have been waiting a heck of a long time for Nikon to make it.

+1 TriShooter. I really don't care about the price but do care about the product.

kenadams

I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable [... ] the idea that one with interchangeable lenses would be pocketable, with current optical technology is nothing more than a pipe dream.

I think the term was used as an analogy here, and who wouldn't agree the difference in size is amazing?? Take a Leica M system, the bodies seem to have gotten bigger by a bit compared to an M3, but the lenses are still tiny! I recently bought a Fuji XE-1 and I love it, for both features and size! I surely cannot literally put it in my pants pocket, but it's about half the size of my (already fairly small) D80.

sevencrossing

I've yet to see a APS-C sensor camera that is even remotely pocketable -

Photography is an expensive hobby
I think Manufactures expect us to have deep pockets:)

donaldejose

"Best of all, it's cheap." Yup, relative inexpensiveness is probably one of the best arguments for Nikon's current high end 24mp DX bodies. With a shutter rated to 150,000 exposures most of us will never wear it out before the update arrives every 3 to 4 years. BUT, what good DX lenses are available to get the most out of that sensor?

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24-Mpix-Nikon-D7100-Wide-angle-and-primes-and-zooms

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24-Mpix-Nikon-D7100-Telephoto-primes-and-zooms

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-24M-Pix-Nikon-D7100-Best-standard-and-portrait-primes-and-zooms

If you want a DX and FX combo, use the D7100 with the D600/610 and many of the same lenses. This is perhaps the best "bang for the buck" from Nikon. Few people need more than this combo can offer. Sure they have some weaknesses (such as the small focus area of the D600/610) but there will be a D7200 and a D620 which can be expected to "fix" some of these weaknesses over time.

sevencrossing

It is going to get better. It will be a D800S, in DX crop mode

manhattanboy

BUT, what good DX lenses are available to get the most out of that sensor?

Not many, but at least it can use the sweet spot of many FX lenses.

The next thing I am waiting for in a crop camera is the foveon-like improvement in resolution. The 7100 has its short comings but all of them are not deal breakers. The 2 most frustrating to me are the rapid buffer when shooting in non-1.3x mode and the lack of integrated wifi.

PB_PM

Ok. So I've played with my D7100 quite a bit and I pretty much have concluded that the D7100 *is* the D400 that everyone wanted...

If that were really true, why are people (including some D7100 users) still wanting a D400? The D7100 is still lacking in some important areas, which make it not even remotely close to a true D300s successor.

PB_PM

I don't disagree. I don't see the need myself, I'm justing pointing out that there are those who disagree.

donaldejose

Let's hope the D9300 does appear and has a better DX sensor plus lots of other features to justify about a $500 price increase over the D7100. We will see what the remainder of this year brings.

Sports

... A 10fps 24mp camera would require the ability to process 240mp/second....

The Sony A77-II shoots 12 fps at 24 Mp, and it's a 1200$ body based on the same generation processor as Expeed 4. Nikon 1 V3, as well, also processes many more bits than the D4S. With Expeed 3, it was a no go, but it's easy now, and not even expensive. So it looks good for the future, I would say.

Few people need more than [D7100+D610]

True, I certainly don't NEED a D300 successor but I'll still buy one as soon as possible because I enjoy using the D300 more than a D7000 or any other camera I've ever used ... not that I've tried all the alternatives.
Btw, I often buy beer at 6-7 $ a bottle. Again, not because I need it, but because I enjoy it.

donaldejose

But it is really nice to hear PitchBlack report back that in his experience the D7100 is so much better than that D300s and that it is built as well as the numerous D800 bodies he normally uses. His report made me think twice about waiting for a D400 or D9300. I would like to get the latest generation DX sensor and don't need 1 or 2 fps faster. Maybe when I see one refurbished . . .

Photobug

Ok. So I've played with my D7100 quite a bit and I pretty much have concluded that the D7100 *is* the D400 that everyone wanted, and that a D9300 would probably be a niche product.

Best of all, it's cheap. You can almost buy two of them and a nice lens for the price of a D800 and you can buy almost 6 of them for the price of a D4s. Spend $30 and you can put a lenscoat neoprene cover on it to for even better weather sealing. If you're waiting for a D400 or a D9300, I think you're making a mistake and missing out on a huge bump in image quality.

+1 and Amen to the last sentence.

TaoTeJared

Just a note on historical context, (prior to the Thailand floods) the D400 series (D9xxx now?) has always started the "new" version of a sensor, newest Pro AF from the D#x line, and features. Not sure if that will continue but Nikon sure doesn't change unless.... well I don't think we have ever seen them change.

My thought. Keep the F mount for DX and FX mirrorless bodies. Just reduce the sensor to flange distance since you no longer have a mirror to take up room. Design some pancake lenses (like 28 and 35 and 50mm with moderate f-stops) to allow for a pocketable camera. A simple and cheap spacer should be able to allow for use of both old and new lenses. The space just has to add the missing sensor to flange distance and pass the electrical current from body to lens (and maybe pass the AF motor drive through to old AF lenses).

I personally like this idea from @donaldejose - release something like Sony's A7 series, different lenses, but allow for an adapter for older (the "mirror" flange distance) lenses to be used.

I still say there is room for a Low MP (16mp-ish) High ISO capable DX sensor. Make it a true DX pro or a D4 mini.

snakebunk

@PitchBlack: Why would the D9300 use the same sensor as the D7100? It sounds like a boring and bad idea, and not historically consistent as TaoTeJared pointed out.