Praise for DX on FX

heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
edited July 2014 in Nikon Lenses
I have been wanting to discuss this for a while ... just read that @MSMOTO now uses a D800E as a D300S replacement. I guess its bec we still have not got a D300S replacement and people have moved on to get that functionality. I myself have gone with a D610.

However, there are a whole bunch of advantages of using DX glass on FX cameras.

Many say upgrading from DX to FX is a huge pain bec you HAVE to get FX glass. I say no, DX glass works just as good on FX as it did on a dx camera. Why would you upgrade lenses that have worked well for you?

Maybe its just me but using crop mode is fine .. you see this rectangle in the viewfinder and just shoot to frame the picture within that rectangle.. no big deal!

I have been using my super zooms in DX mode on my D610 and the images are generally as sharp as when used on my old D7000 maybe even better. Images are definitely better due to the colours and DR and High iso. I also have the option to go to FX mode with the idea to crop later. My 18-xxx now becomes a 16-xxx !! my 12-24 becomes a 10-XX. I can also compose in square crop or 4:5 crop and get higher number of MP than in DX crop.

The High ISO capabilities of the FX sensor is also a nice addition to shooting with DX lenses. When the MP went through the roof, didn't we complain and wanted a 10MP high ISO DX camera? well I have that 11MP in dx crop mode in the D610 and love it!

For those saying 10MP is not enough MP even on DX cameras, well look at the DXO measurements. Most DX lenses are about 5-6 PMPX a really good one is 8-10 PMP. Generally well below the capability of my D610 in DX mode! (not to mention the D800E) and looking at the images that I have been shooting with my DX lenses I concur with the DXO measurement.

For general photography the D610 provides more functionality than most DX cameras. The exception would be when used with High IQ tele glass for wildlife. however, I love using my D610 with my DX lenses.


Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

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Comments

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,144Member
    edited July 2014
    I have never used DX glass on an FX body. I have used old 35mm AF lenses on a new FX body and they work just fine. I think the argument would be that you pay extra money for that FX sensor size so it doesn't make economic sense to not use the full sensor by using DX lenses. However, new FX and old 35mm AF lenses do cover the full FX sensor so you are using all the sensor area you paid for. But there is nothing wrong with using an FX sensor in cropped DX mode if you are planning on later adding FX glass. Otherwise, just buy a D7100 for less money than a D610. Assuming DX does not go beyond 24mp the "two for one" camera body will be here when a 57 mp FX sensor allows you to also have a 24 mp DX mode. Maybe we will see that with a D4x.
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    The D800/e/810 is 16mp in DX mode. That is beyond all but the best glass, and technique.

    @heartyfisher The DX frame lines in the D800 are like framing one of my Leica's.

    For action photos there is a real benefit in seeing what is about to enter the frame.

    I often use DX mode, but so far, only with FX glass.

    Regards ... H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    I have never used DX glass on an FX body. I have used old 35mm AF lenses on a new FX body and they work just fine. I think the argument would be that you pay extra money for that FX sensor size so it doesn't make economic sense to not use the full sensor by using DX lenses. However, new FX and old 35mm AF lenses do cover the full FX sensor so you are using all the sensor area you paid for. But there is nothing wrong with using an FX sensor in cropped DX mode if you are planning on later adding FX glass. Otherwise, just buy a D7100 for less money than a D610. Assuming DX does not go beyond 24mp the "two for one" camera body will be here when a 57 mp FX sensor allows you to also have a 24 mp DX mode. Maybe we will see that with a D4x.
    Part of what I am getting at is, for DX shooters who have some DX glass getting a D610 will not make you worse off. and you really don't need to spend more to upgrade glass as well. In particularly if you have a super zoom. an FX super zoom like the 28-300 does not give you better images than a DX superzoom in DX mode. The PMPX of the 28-300 is not as good as the new 18-140. So if you have an 18-140 like I have its better to keep using that in DX mode than to get a 28-300. The 18-200 in dx crop mode is almost the exact performance as the 28-300 in FX. So that is no reason to upgrade to FX glass for the same functionality. Using your old DX glass on the D610 will still give you the sensor advantage of better ISO and DR and colour. Further more, as I mentioned in the OP, you can use more of the image circle of your DX lense in FX mode and crop a larger than DX image.

    So the argument that you are "wasting" money by not using the Full sensor is moot bec. in the end its the resulting image that matters not what tool you used, and my D610 did provide me with images with better IQ. Of course if you have a FX camera and get the best FX lenses you will theoretically get the most optimal image quality. but if you already have DX glass there is really no need to upgrade the glass if it provides the functionality you need.
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    I agree. If you have DX lenses and upgrade to an FX camera, continue to use your DX lenses.

    However, all further lenses, in my view, should be FX.

    Further, I would evaluate the re-sale value of the DX lenses and consider putting those dollars to FX.

    And finally, I think that as an upgrade path, this is a good strategy and indeed, what Nikon has had in mind all along.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Given that I have both DX & FX bodies, when I go to a sporting event, I usually take both bodies. The FF will be mounted on the monopod with a long telephoto, while the DX is on my Blackrapid with a midrange zoom.

    I have mounted my 35 1.8 DX on my D4 here and there...the images are fine. DX lenses on FF bodies tend to vignetting so long as you are ok with that it will do the job. But I have to admit, when you get a FF body you should get FF lenses. The optical quality in pro-level glass is what makes the image come to life...IMHO.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    Good glass is good glass even on DX bodies. In some cases its probably better to use it on a DX camera. (sweet spot, vignetting) .. I am tempted to sell my D7000 as it does not give me much capabilities advantage over my D610, I am only hesitating bec I like using 2 cameras when i am in the mood for photography.. I will probably upgrade it to the D7200 when that arrives.
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Having a backup body is always nice. Thus, why sell something when you can put it to good use.

    I never had an issue using any of my FF/Pro-glass on my DX body. However, for some of my wide angle lenses, i.e., 24 1.4G & 14-24 2.8...the amount of seen that was being cut-out due to the 1.5 crop was enormous noticeable once I got my FF body.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    I totally agree with Heartyfisher, because I do the same on my D600. I bought the 18-200mm a long time ago as holiday lens on the D300. For the same reason I put it on the D600 and see it as a 10mp camera, what is more then enough for my holiday shots.

    It is about making photo's, with ISO 100, 1/400 or more on f/8, which problems should you have to make good photo's ? Any combination is good, when you go to A4 prints (sometimes even A3 is possible).

    The last years I changed back to primes, the f/1.8 series is so good on the D600.
    Cheap, good and light, with today's technology, enormous amounts of posibillities.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    Those who say it can't be done, should not interrupt those doing it!
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,030Moderator
    This has made me think that you doesn't have to wait until you have swapped out your DX glass for FX before you go to FX, do it after or, if you don't shoot a certain field of view very often, never bother.
    Always learning.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    That is right, but it depends on what you want, the step I made was from my 5 year old D300 to the D600 and I already bought the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8, because I knew that my next camera should be FF. The difference in IQ with these lenses between the D300 and the D600 is big.

    I think that the IQ difference between the (24mp) D7100 and D610 is less, but that I don't know.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    Those who say it can't be done, should not interrupt those doing it!
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,030Moderator
    I informally tested the two against each other at a shop then compared images at home in lightroom. They are very similar indeed. The D610 does have the edge for low light photography though. That edge is smaller than it used to be by quite a bit, but it is still there.
    Always learning.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    I informally tested the two against each other at a shop then compared images at home in lightroom. They are very similar indeed. The D610 does have the edge for low light photography though. That edge is smaller than it used to be by quite a bit, but it is still there.
    Sorry to ask for clarification but which cameras did you test?

    @Ton : Regarding the 18-200.. I have had that for a fair amount of time too I first used it on my 6MP D70 and the results from it have been very pleasing.. using it on the D610 is also very pleasing :-) although now I use the 18-200 on my V1 more and the 18-140 on the D610 or D7000.

    Another thing about using DX lenses is the size and weight especially for travel and general walk around.

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    This has made me think that you doesn't have to wait until you have swapped out your DX glass for FX before you go to FX, do it after or, if you don't shoot a certain field of view very often, never bother.
    Yes that is what I am advocating. I wanted to upgrade from my D7000(D400 !!!), and the D610 provided a yummy jump in High ISO (which I am enjoying immensely) and also the DR and colours are so delicious! i must say that I like D610 colours more that the D800. although the D810 is nice too..

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • HvalHval Posts: 110Member
    I have tried DX lenses on my D800. I still prefer using DX lenses on my D300, but am not averse to using them on my D800. You will see that I have posted links to photos taken with my Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 an my Nikon D800. The postings to the photos are elsewhere.


    Cheers,

    Hval
    ____________________

    Owner of an extremely high quality Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    @heartyfisher I bought the 18-200mm with my D70. I saw you use it on the Nikon 1 V1. What I do now is, The 85mm f/1.8g is on my D600 for general purpose and in my car I have the Nikon 1 V1 with the 50mm f/1.8g on it. The V1 has the same battery as the D600, always handy as spare and I can switch lenses, the V1 becoms a 220mm f/1.8 (OK not really), but the V1 is just for fun.

    More my way to travel light and some times I don't have the photo because I don't have the lens with me, so be it. Further, when I put the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 in my car because I don't want to carry it, they are not insured (€ 3000.-) then, that is the reason why I do it this way. Normally I know what I 'am goiing to do and put the right lens on it of course.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    Those who say it can't be done, should not interrupt those doing it!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    O, another thing, I processed the D70 photo's in LR 5.5 and there is a big difference. The software became a whole lot better since 1.0 :) Nobody talks about that.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    Those who say it can't be done, should not interrupt those doing it!
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    @pitchblack I have a few DX lenses which I use on the D610 .. But I have several FX lenses as well and they work very well on the D610 :-) as expected.

    However, I don't agree with your analogy. As I have mentioned the 18-200 works just as well as the FX 28-300 and the 18-140 works better than the 28-300. Any of the great lenses (which just happen to be FX lenses) will work great on FX or DX cameras. they just become different lenses for different functions eg my 35-70 F2.8 on FX is a fun normal zoom. The 35-70 on DX becomes a great Portrait zoom lense. My 70-200 F4 on FX is a great medium tele. on DX it becomes a really fun wildlife tele especially with a TC14. (==150-420)

    With lenses of course the better the glass the more expensive it is. If cost is no object then we will all get the best glass with the best camera. but since we all have a budget to fit our gear into, I am saying that you do not loose out at all holding on to DX glass and using it on an FX body. In some cases DX glass is actually the better option at least for the present.
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    But Heartyfisher, you are comparing consumer grade FX to consumer grade DX. Pitchblack is comparing best FX (professional) to best DX (consumer). Not apples to apples, but it gets to the heart of the difference between FX and DX.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,144Member
    Nikon should produce a "pro" layout DX body and some "pro" DX glass: a "lite-pro" kit, so to speak. Maybe we will see that with the next DX body out.
  • NukeNuke Posts: 64Member
    I kept two lenses from my DX days. The 10-24 and 35. Neither are bad glass and framing with 1.2x can yield decent results. I even bought the Rokinon 8mm f/3.5 fisheye after going FX. Most of my glass before going FX were FX lenses. The lenses I use the most are are FX and I didn't feel the need to replace the seldom used DX glass.
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,793Member
    edited July 2014
    All very good but a D7000 is nowhere as good as a D7100 so using a D610 to emulate now outdated D7000 quality is not too good in my opinion..

    You could always use your DX glass with a 1.5x converter and fill the FX frame ( and dont tell me it wont work until you tried it ....)
    Post edited by Pistnbroke on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,030Moderator
    I informally tested the two against each other at a shop then compared images at home in lightroom. They are very similar indeed. The D610 does have the edge for low light photography though. That edge is smaller than it used to be by quite a bit, but it is still there.
    Sorry to ask for clarification but which cameras did you test?

    The D610 and the D7100 per Tons posting above mine. The same time as I tested the 24-120 and didn't like it.
    Always learning.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    One DX lens I use often on full frame… 10.5mm f/2.8

    But, only if you like this style…LOL

    Streamliners_at_Spencer_05.30.14
    Msmoto, mod
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    All very good but a D7000 is nowhere as good as a D7100 so using a D610 to emulate now outdated D7000 quality is not too good in my opinion..

    You could always use your DX glass with a 1.5x converter and fill the FX frame ( and dont tell me it wont work until you tried it ....)
    RE TC + DX glass on FX. I have tried it .. not worth the trouble. (PS : actually I only tried it on the Super Zooms and IQ with TC for super zooms is not worth the trouble.. better to just upscale and not lose the 1 stop)

    I am sure the D7100 must be quite good.. However from my research .. Its only a small improvement over the D7000. But I have not played with one so all i know is from reviews. I am not saying that you can emulate a D7000 with a D610 no not at all. in terms of sharpness its probably about equivalent in DX mode but you do get more area than DX .. as you can crop at about 1.3x with most DX glass and with some like my 12-24 nikkor you can use it in full FX mode from about 18-24mm. like i said before you do get great High ISO capability, second only to the D4/S ..

    Upgrading from my D7000 the choice was between D7100(more MP) and D610(More ISO &DR) . I chose the DR/ISO ..
    Re D7000 quality .. of course, its one generation old, but its no slouch!


    https://www.flickr.com/photos/104392783@N07/11561551003/in/photostream/
    image
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,172Member
    edited July 2014
    @heartyfisher: I'm not saying that you don't get perfectly good results with your DX glass, just that a DX lens doesn't harness the full potential of the D800. Remember, you're throwing away tons of potential sensor information every time you use DX glass, and even a 36mp file downsized to 16mp will generally contain a richer array of information and less noise than file that is produced using only part of the sensor. The analogy with the gaming machine remains appropriate: the game works great and plays well, and may even look great, but you're still not harnessing all of the available power. DX glass will only be your best available option if your FX glass somehow doesn't measure up.
    I am not advocating using ONLY Dx glass with an FX camera.. what I am saying is you dont lose anything by using your current DX glass on a new FX camera. in fact you gain at least 1.4 to 1.3 crop capability with most DX glass and some you can use at full FX at least part of the zoom range.

    I dont see it as "throwing away" sensor potential.. more like having more than the original capability/functionality of the DX glass! and yes I do have a few FX glass but I still use DX glass as its still fully functional and provides me with more options. And for the Super Zooms, I get a functional equivalent of a 16-140 superzoom when using the 18-140 on my D610 and the resulting IQ is better than any available FX superzoom.

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

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