Praise for DX on FX

haroldp

- Documentation subjects that are not photographically interesting where 16mp is more than enough, such as tourist ('welcome to chicken alaska' etc.) and some event photography.
.... H

I understand why you'd shoot in DX mode in the first use case (I sometimes do as well for the faster frame rate) but for this one, why not just down sample (i.e. shoot in Fine instead of RAW)?

good question.

Raw gives me many more options in post processing than 8 bit fine jpeg, even with fewer pixels.

This approach also leaves my workflow intact.

Regards .... H

Photobug

@sevencrossing

File size…..

And, as I purchased the used D800E instead of the D400 or D9300 or whatever the D300s replacement is, I wanted a DX body.

Having said that, I am shooting full frame for awhile to see how this goes as well. I like to find out what works best for me.

Here is my assessment. After "a while" you going to stay with FF unless you need the reach like bike races, birds, etc. I am convinced you will love FF photography. I will back it up and buy you a drink if you switch and use it in DX mode the majority of the time.

WestEndBoy

@sevencrossing

File size…..

And, as I purchased the used D800E instead of the D400 or D9300 or whatever the D300s replacement is, I wanted a DX body.

Having said that, I am shooting full frame for awhile to see how this goes as well. I like to find out what works best for me.

Here is my assessment. After "a while" you going to stay with FF unless you need the reach like bike races, birds, etc. I am convinced you will love FF photography. I will back it up and buy you a drink if you switch and use it in DX mode the majority of the time.

The part of this that I don't understand is why bother cropping in camera when you can do it in Lightroom or Photoshop? If you crop in camera but a critical element is outside the frame, there is no way to recover that.

spraynpray

The part of this that I don't understand is why bother cropping in camera when you can do it in Lightroom or Photoshop? If you crop in camera but a critical element is outside the frame, there is no way to recover that.

File size, buffer size, faster transfer to camera and PP are a few that spring to mind.

haroldp

If one cannot compose in a delineated DX frame box, than they probably cannot compose in an FX frame or an 8 X 10 view camera either.

If the plan is to randomly point wide lenses and compose later, than a larger frame might help.

... H

sevencrossing

The part of this that I don't understand is why bother cropping in camera when you can do it in Lightroom or Photoshop? If you crop in camera but a critical element is outside the frame, there is no way to recover that.

+100

If one cannot compose in a delineated DX frame box, than they probably cannot compose in an FX frame or an 8 X 10 view camera either.

If you are shooting a static subject and using a tripod ( which, with a 10 x 8 you usually are ) this make some sence

But in my life, this rarely happens. I cannot see the logic of throwing information away. in order to save a few minutes in post production I would rather have the luxury of of cropping in post

yes S&P I agree the fps does make sense

haroldp

@sevencrossing

When you use a DX camera, (or ant other sensor size) you are also 'cropping in the camera'since the same focal length would give you a wider FOV in FX, you just cannot turn it off.

When I shoot an FX camera in DX crop, which is less than 10% of the time, I am shooting shooting subjects and circumstances where it s reasonable to do so.

When I shoot action (recently BIF) this way, I am almost always cropping even the DX frame still further in PP. In those circumstances, the additional buffer / frame capacity really matters.

Most 'tourist sites' don't move very much (except in California).

Based on their postings, I believe the folks on this forum who have commented on times and reasons that they go to DX mode in an FX camera are among the most experienced on this forum (as am I), and are fully capable of making this decision.

Those who are not comfortable doing this should not do it.

... H

sevencrossing

Based on their postings, I believe the folks on this forum who have commented on times and reasons that they go to DX mode in an FX camera are among the most experienced on this forum (as am I), and are fully capable of making this decision.

Those who are not comfortable doing this should not do it

... H

I cant disagree with that. I will stay comfortable by not doing it ( probably something to do with over 50 years of shooting full frame )

Hval

Do you know, until I tried my Sigma 18-35mm DX lens with my D800 I would also be slightly puzzled as to why someone might do it.

Well, not really. File size, number of photos etcetera, frame rate. All good reasons.

For me though, what was more important is how the image looks. I happen to be a big fan of the way images look with the Sigma 18-35mm lens. I am going to be rubbish at describing why, but I shall try. I love the dark greys and the blackness shades that the Sigma lens gives. I love the sharpness of images I can achieve in our miserable weather. Do you know how Scandinavians are known for being moody and broody? Well, that's how I see this lens. Not that it has tried to rape and pillage me (Scandinavians = Vikings? Oh all right, bad joke. I admit it), but it does make me feel that it has a moody side to it. Just wait until it starts singing Bjork songs.

Sorry any Scandies, but you know what I mean.

Takk,

Hval.

Edited to correct my iPads hilarious ideas of what my brain tried to say

KnockKnock

Not that it has tried to rape and pillage me (Scandinavians = Vikings? Oh all right, bad joke. I admit it), but it does make me feel that it has a moody side to it.

I laughed. Am now ashamed.

SangYuP

I was using a D300 before I upgraded to a D800. At the time, I was most of my lenses were FX, but my most used midrange was DX (17-55 2.8). I finally decided to upgrade the body and use it in DX mode until I could geet the 24-70 2.8. It worked okay for me and got the job done, but not ideal. However, I do not regret upgrading to a FX body first and later upgrading my lenses to FX and if I were to do this over again, I would upgrade the body again. This is my opinion and it helped that most of my lenses were already FX except for the midrange and ultrawide. Now, I have the 24-70 2.8 and it is so much better using it in FX than using the 17-55 2.8 in DX mode

heartyfisher

So we are talking about FX cameras and the DX format. I have tried to compile a quick summary of the points so far.

1) FX camera and FX lense in FX mode
1.1) pro
1.1.1) We all know if you have the best FX lenses then this is usually the best option.

1.2) con - However there are a few reasons that this may not be the best option.
1.2.1) Firstly if we need more reach
- so the solution is to crop the file or use (2) the 1.5 dx crop or the 1.2 crop.
1.2.2) If you dont have the best FX lenses
- either you dont have it or have poor quality fx lenses then (3) or (4) may be the best solution.

2) FX camera and FX lense in DX mode
2.1) pro
2.1.1) - Reach
2.1.2) - higher FPS
2.1.3) - buffer size no of images that can be stored in the buffer, faster transfer to memory card.
2.1.3) - smaller file sizes - faster transfer from memory card to PC.
2.1.4) - You get a whole different set of lenses due to a different FOV! eg the 35-70 normal zoom becomes a great Portrait lense.

2.2) con
2.2.1) - Lose MP


3) FX camera and DX lense in FX mode
3.1) pro
3.1.1) - Dx glass is cheaper.
3.1.2) Some DX glass gives as good or better IQ than the equivalent FX lense.
Specifically the Nikkor 18-140 and Sigma 18-35F1.8.
3.1.3) Lenses are smaller and lighter than FX equivalent.
3.1.4) even if there are better FX lenses. DX lense may be Good enough, especially if its cheaper.
Currently many people compromise and get cheap third party lenses of varying quality
anyway so why not use Dx lenses as an option if they meet the functionality and IQ that you need.
3.1.5) many DX lenses have a much larger image circle than the DX format..
Some zoom can be used in FX for a substantial amount of the zoom range.
So you can use the full size of the sensor for some Dx lenses. If you have a camera with
the 1.2 crop even more of the zoom range will be available. (note that IQ at the edges
suffer but may be acceptable for some lenses and more so in 1.2 crop mode)
3.1.6) if you have DX glass it will work on an FX camera.
if IQ is good enough, keep it, if not upgrade when you are ready to.

3.2) con
3.2.1) Some say it feels like a waste of sensor. but see (3.1) and (4.1)


4) FX camera and DX lense in DX mode
4.1) pro
4.1.1) Faster FPS
4.1.2) More pictures as the file sizes are smaller
4.1.3) Pre-cropped no need to crop anymore.
4.1.4) Live view you see the full image in DX mode.
4.1.5) many similar advantages to (3.1) eg (3.1.1) (3.1.2) (3.1.3) (3.1.4) (3.1.6)

4.2) con
4.2.1) Some say it feels like a waste of sensor. but see (3.1) and (4.1)

I have a feeling that there have been more points raised in this thread but that all I have for now.

Another advantage of using a dx lense on and FX camera is you get better high ISO compared to dx cameras due to the larger pixels..

Many say that its Glass that is the better investment than the camera. If you have good DX glass, why not keep using it.
(update : added 3.1.4)

sevencrossing

So we are talking about FX cameras and the DX format. I have tried to compile a quick summary of the points so far.

An excellent summary

One point recurs "cheaper "
This IMHO this is the big advantage of dx; be it a Dx camera, a DX lens or a FX Camera in Dx mode

But if you have the right camera eg a D4s

And the right FX lenses say a 400mm, 600mm, 800mm, the 200 -400 plus a few TCs
plus super fast computer, with plenty of Hard Drive capacity

fps, buffer, speed, reach and PP are not a problem

Yes I know, DX scores on size and weight, as well as cost

Hval

In general I have got past the DX and FX lens thing.

I am now more concerned with whether an image looks how I want it too, or even whether I will take photos or not. One big example (other than my Viking 18-35mm Sigma) is my Nikkor 18-200mm lens. It's DX. It's not a fantastic lens, but it is an absolutely brilliant lens. It's not good in low light, it's image quality isn't great, but as a travel lens it is wow! It takes better photographs than a compact camera allows, just not as good as many more much more expensive lenses.

But you know what? It is light, it is small, it fits in carry on baggage, it is not too noticeable on streets or in monasteries. I am able to carry it all day long attached to my D200 or D300. It works. Just a shame it isn't f2.8 and the same size/ weight. I have used it in Africa in cities and the bush. I have even been brave enough to use it in Glasgow.

heartyfisher

12-24 at 12mmF4 1/13 shutter D610 hand held.

Msmoto

A side note… sort of… as I use the D800E, I find myself using the full frame more than the DX crop. There might be something addictive about the extreme quality of a full frame D8XX.

I will no doubt do more of the cropping, one area being with the extreme long lens shooting (800mm) where going down to DX crop gives me the effect of a 1200mm….

I remain convinced I made the correct decision to purchase a used D800E rather than wait for whatever Nikon may come up with as a pro DX body. Some of us on this forum are just too old to wait… LOL

sevencrossing

Some of us on this forum are just too old to wait… LOL

I could not agree more

haroldp

Some of us on this forum are just too old to wait… LOL

I forgot about that.

... H

haroldp

A side note… sort of… as I use the D800E, I find myself using the full frame more than the DX crop. There might be something addictive about the extreme quality of a full frame D8XX.

I will no doubt do more of the cropping, one area being with the extreme long lens shooting (800mm) where going down to DX crop gives me the effect of a 1200mm….

I remain convinced I made the correct decision to purchase a used D800E rather than wait for whatever Nikon may come up with as a pro DX body. Some of us on this forum are just too old to wait… LOL

I am certain you will be happy with this decision.

To me, the greatest strength of the D800 / 810 is its versatility.

36mp FX
16mp DX
12mp downsampled high ISO.

in 1 Nikon professional body.

I am also using the 400/2.8 with tce20-III, and this is my most common use of DX mode since even that combo often lacks the reach for BIF. One huge benefit of the FX body, over a DX camera, even in this mode is that if the action gets closer, I open the frame to FX and multiply my FOV.

@Msmoto I purchased the tce20-III for the 400/2.8 based on your recommendation and am astounded at how good this combination is. Thank you for offering excellent advice to members of this forum.

Regards ... Harold

Msmoto

@haroldp

I am not certain about the value of anything I say on the forum, but the fact remained with the 400/+TC, I just did not have the $18,000 for the alternative…. )

Oh, and on the D800E…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/14864705484/sizes/o/

This is the first time I have seen the actual flares on the surface…. at about 2 o'clock near the edge….

tcole1983

From my perspective and I probably won't switch to FX unless there is some reason...I start making money and decide I need it. Or they get rid of DX. I am also curious about those that have gone to a D800 from say a D90 or such. That is a huge jump in camera...how about if you had a D5200+ or a D7100. 24 MP with newer features vs an old outdated model. Would you be as wowed by the D800? Not saying it isn't a great camera and if I could afford it I would have one, but just saying.

From my perspective. DX is MUCH cheaper. DX is more flexible. So I have purchased some DX lenses and some FX lenses...the DX versions are always cheaper, but when there isn't a DX option for what I want I can get the FX version. The FX lenses work great on my DX bodies. So one of the crucial focal lengths is that 17-55 or 24-70. I got my 17-55 for around $900. The 24-70 is $1500+. That is a big reason why I can't switch. Also the bodies. I got my D5000 back in the day and sold the 18-55 kit lens and the body only cost me around $400. I also just got my D5200 with 18-55 for $440...if I sell the kit lens I will be under the $400 mark. Compared to what over a $1000 for a D600?

The DX bodies are cropping pictures, but that doesn't really matter. You still get a 24 MP picture out of it. There are obvious benefits of the FX sensors such as dynamic range and better ISO performance, but the newest DX isn't far behind...so like I said if you came from an older D300/D90/D5000 to a D800 there is no comparison. I don't think there has been much for me from my D5000 to D5200...night and day. You get more reach because of the crop factor. FX has a landscape advantage with it being wider, but I haven't ever felt limited by how wide I could go, but I always do with how far...long lenses = $$$$...and long lenses on FX aren't as long as long lenses on DX. Plus now with the higher MP sensors on DX you can crop a bit and still get good results.

So just thought I would share my thoughts as one of the non-converts here.

sevencrossing

I am also curious about those that have gone to a D800 from say a D90.

I went there via a D700
The difference depends on what you are shooting and the lighting conditions
With an easy subject, in good light and a mid range zoom, the difference may not be huge
The D800's faster, more accurate focusing, spot on exposure and high dynamic range and 36 mp , comes into its element, in difficult conditions, when you bigger than average prints

haroldp

I have been autofocus fine tuning my lens inventory (with TC variants) on my new D810 all day , A perfect case for DX mode. My mind is now mush.

I think I will go listen to some Jimmy Buffet music.

... H

Photobug

@haroldp

I am not certain about the value of anything I say on the forum, but the fact remained with the 400/+TC, I just did not have the $18,000 for the alternative…. )

That is cause you went and spent that money on one of them aluminum trailers. ^:)^

Msmoto

Yup, and in the next week or so, I will be attempting to photograph this out in South Dakota…. Photography of aluminum trailers is like cars… one shoots the reflections. And, maybe even at a very great distance….

I will maybe use the D800E in DX mode, although I have noticed an intreating fact, once pointed out by PitchBlack….shoot full frame and have a lot of cropping ability. The images on these 36 MP cameras is phenomenal.