Critique My Photos: Seeking Wedding/Couples Photographers Feedback

JonMcGuffin

I need some help and some honest feedback. I have a wedding to shoot in 3 weeks. I included an engagement session with the couple and the majority of the delivered (edited) results are here.

The reason for the post is that, for the first time, I have a client that is not giving me the impression they really like the photos. Though they've not said they're unhappy, I clearly don't feel like they think they are that great.

If the subject of what I'm charging for this engagement + wedding, let's just say it's pretty well below market average. Bride & Groom are not very familiar with professional photos or the photographic market in general.

With that said, my own opinion of my images (which is hard to see) is that though I don't think they are works of art is that they are pretty good. Yes I see things I could have done better or differently (can't that be said for virtually all images?) but in the end, was what I delivered something that represents quality work and work in line with what can be expected when hiring somebody to take your photographs on the beach (client requested).

JonMcGuffin

Yes, I did and always shoot in RAW
No, I used off camera flash. Strobe fired into a 28" Octobox that I hand carry and setup. Not used on all images, but most.
I did do the developing/post. I will post up a couple of the before images later and I'd be curious what you think of them seeing before/after. The pre-edited photos needed too much work as I shot these a little too hot. The conditions were tough because though the time of day was around sunset, the light was pretty hard with zero cloud cover or natural diffusion.

Rx4Photo

Can you nudge any thoughts out of them without outwardly saying you don't seem overly satisfied? They look good to me but might need a touch of white balance adjusting on some. That said, I think it's tricky. We don't really know what photos people view and compare theirs to. Perhaps they're doing that and are wishing these photos looked more like some they've seen with heavier processing or vigneting and black & white and creative poses and such.

JonMcGuffin

Ok, here are some original SOC shots.







@Rx4Photo: Well, that's tricky. The last comment I got (just this morning is) "they look great" but this was from the groom, bride hasn't had really anything nice to say. There conversation when I had it was really around the shadows and their concern for not having these during the wedding. Wedding will be near the water in a similar time/place but not quite the same.

PB_PM

I don't think there is much you could have done, at least in camera, to fix some of those issues without a wide range of lighting equipment setup. Now some of the shadows can be dealt with in post mind you.

In a few shots I think you used too much flash power as well. I'd say that turning down the flash by -0.3ev for some of them would have made for a nicer look, and reduced some of the shadows.

manhattanboy

His face is also a different color than hers... he is more red and she more yellow. This might be "natural" but it looks ugly in photos. You need to fix it.

The biggest problem is exposure, though. When it's getting darker, you need to make sure you drop your exposure compensation.

You are damn good at editing photos.

spraynpray

I'd say that you should have gelled your flash so you didn't get the colour temp mismatch, but apart from the first few images (awkward pose (hand), back of his head, harsh shadows), they aren't at all bad.

JonMcGuffin

Wow, thank you for feedback.

Ok, I did shoot manual exposure and also manual flash. I also did keep my manual exposure down. The problem was the flash. When dealing with two subjects and my single light source (not counting the sun) I wouldn't get good coverage on them. So I'd have an in balance of flash on the couple. The fall off from one face to another would be pretty great too.

So, to be frank, as I'm shooting because things are happening relatively fast, I'm trying to make the couple feel comfortable, and making sure I don't miss the 1 hour or less opportunity, I have to kind of wing it. I'm also a one man bandit out there with my single light stick with flash head. I'm not trying to make excuses, just saying it is what it is and those complications are a reality.

JonMcGuffin

I'd say that you should have gelled your flash so you didn't get the colour temp mismatch, but apart from the first few images (awkward pose (hand), back of his head, harsh shadows), they aren't at all bad.

Well, I actually did gell it 1/4 CTO but, in hindsight, it should have been a full 1/1 or 1/2 maybe?

Also, I don't remember but I think I shot daylight WB. I usually try to keep a standard WB setting during my shoots but in all honesty, often I forget and Auto in basic daylight situations seems to do a pretty good job.

Rx4Photo

The problem with Auto WB is that at any point in the series of pictures your camera might decide to alter its settings and then you've got differnt tones from photo to photo. Cloudy might have worked nicely here. With that you might have already been closer to the tones inPitchBlack's edits. Love the work BTW, PitchBlack.

JonMcGuffin

@Rx4Photo, yes, which is why I do try to always dial in a consistent WB setting. I think I actually may have gone with cloudy which would explain the very "orange/red/warm" color to my pictures.

JonMcGuffin

@PitchBlack - yeah, you do edit well... rats...

and thank you all for the feedback... truly.....

Golf007sd

Nice feedback NRF members...cheers to you all. I agree, the WB on the skin tones and backgrounds needed some "love." Quite a simple process via LR. Let the Adjustment brush be your friend.

@Jon...getting the right exposure, via flashes and having it not blowout the subject, in relation to your surrounding is tricky during a sunset; thus, I would recommend considering using a reflector. Get one that is big enough to provide sufficient natural light reflection on the clients. An assistant will really come in handy here. You need to work fast and have a good knowledge base of the area you will be shooting; in addition, how you plan to position your clients.

JonMcGuffin

@PitchBlack Paying somebody isn't an option; not because I wouldn't do it, because I would. I want to edit them because I want to learn how to do it. Photography isn't really a money generating enterprise to me. It's something I love and want to be good at and if I can do some paying jobs here and there to help cover the expense of those expensive cameras and nice glass; than so be it.

I love David Hobby, I've seen him also teach in person once. However, with that said, I find myself not typically liking a lot of the flash photography photos he publishes. The image in this lesson included. I've just come to appreciate a look that actually is very similar to yours which is typically a very balanced, natural looking image. Really using flash as a method to bring the camera's dynamic range more in line with what the human eye is able to see rather than using the flash for it's own look. This is a kind of devil's advocate opinion though as I do appreciate many different types of looks.

I presume, my biggest mistake, is probably not having a look in mind that I wanted to achieve prior to the shoot and going towards that rather than showing up, deciding I would do it a certain way - just because - and then wrestling with it.

I do have an update in that I did get a txt from the client that said "great photos". So maybe I'm worrying more than I should... but in the end, though I'm generally happy with them, I do think they are missing something and I think it falls down a bit both in the shoot and in post. I just don't know where to go from here....

spraynpray

@JonMcGuffin: Don't worry man, you did good. The images are tweakable and you learned a lot. Today was a good day.

donaldejose

Maybe you just have run into some people who have a distorted self image and think they look much better than they really do so no realistic photo will make them happy.

JonMcGuffin

@PitchBlack - Thank you very much for your feedback and your quick edits above really do show me that I have much work to do in post. - Just when I thought I was getting 'ok'

@donaldejose - Yeah, I certainly couldn't say in this case the client has an unreasonable look at themselves. I'm trying to remain to look at this as a stepping stone to get to where I want to be which is, frankly, the best I possibly can. I'm not thrilled with the photos but I usually (genuinely) get all kinds of praise from clients about the pictures and it just didn't come back this time.

This did make me wonder if this was one of those rare occasions where I actually think my photos are better than the client. I'm not that entirely dissatisfied with the pictures; I think they are OK and I thank those here who have reassured me that I'm not insane and that these are good photos. It's a little hard to hear they're not passable but I have to be honest with myself and say to be where I want to be, in that light, they're not.

JonMcGuffin

@JonMcGuffin: Don't worry man, you did good. The images are tweakable and you learned a lot. Today was a good day.

Thank you!!

Ironheart

Can you post a raw image or two on Dropbox? I'd like to take a whack at it...

JonMcGuffin

@Ironheart Absolutely

Image 5555
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qk2udb0t35rh8i9/NFF_5555.NEF

Image 5598
https://www.dropbox.com/s/41adm5khmvwmok8/NFF_5598.NEF

Image 5649
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a2672ofqljfll7/NFF_5649.NEF

donaldejose

Passable? PitchBlack is not the standard on his. His work is excellent; not just passable. I know plenty of people who never think they look as good in any photos as they do in "real life," but they are wrong.

proudgeek

I took a crack at the jpg and was able to neutralize the red in the guy's face after several attempts using Vivesa to a degree. What I couldn't fix (or figure out) is the orange in his right hand, from the wrist to the fingertips. Almost like he got sprayed with some spray tanning stuff.

JonMcGuffin

@donaldejose - I'm not entirely sure what you are saying; I'm sorry. I hope it wasn't taken that I was remarking Mark's work is merely "passable". Can you clarify?

donaldejose

Mark said it would take hours to make your images "passable" to him. But what is passable to him is excellent to most people. Mark's standard for what is passable is too high a standard. To him only excellence is passable. I am sure most wedding photographers would fail to make Mark's passing grade. So don't feel bad that you didn't. Few here would. That is what I meant.

JonMcGuffin

@proudgeek - He wasn't, but it's possible a combination of my white balance settings, the fact I was using off camera flash with a 1/4 CTO gel, and the very warm toned sun was a factor here.

@donaldejose - Ok, thank you for the reassurance.

Golf007sd

Having some fun