Critique My Photos: Seeking Wedding/Couples Photographers Feedback

PB_PM

My rendering of the files. No crops, just the original files edited.

JonMcGuffin

Thank you guys for your crops and edits. I think one of the areas that was really problematic for me were the highlights on their faces/cheeks. This was something I probably could have dealt with in camera first which would have saved me a lot of time (see @PitchBlack) so I edited and smoothed those out which, to me, made a big difference in the before/after images.

JonMcGuffin

So, I got an email from the bride to be tonight with the official response to the edited photos

"Thank you, Jon! They turned out great. I really appreciate you offering to do this and we now have a few more nice photos of us, thanks to you."

So perhaps my initial interpretation of their value of these was a bit off

Nonetheless, they are good but they're not up to the standard I want them to be and you all are helping me get there.

WestEndBoy

I always like seeing what people, particularly Pitchblack, can do. I am motivated by how far I can go, which is another way of saying how much I can improve, a process that I enjoy. This is a great read and JonMcGuffin, you should be commended for putting yourself out like you have.

Golf007sd

@JonMcGuffin: Glad to hear they are pleased

One thing to keep in mind of the day of shooting regarding the bride...her hair. Her long hair can add to the shot or destroy it...specially for this close-up/crops. So make sure if it is windy at the beach, you have a brush. :P

Pistnbroke

All look good but some of the hands are a bit clumsy and not always placed in an affectionate way....dont worry keep shooting....maybe the off camera flash was a bad idea gives the impression of a sunset off camera

framer

Forgetting about the technical aspect of the shoot, sometimes a personality conflict can develop that make the client feel that they didn't get good images even before they look at them. They need to fully trust you and believe you are the best photographer for them. They need to really like you. If you come across as bossy or controlling in their minds or they feel you talk down to them when posing can lead to future conflict and issues. Keeping the shoot light, fun and exciting helps.

Just a thought.

framer

Rx4Photo

Good points Framer. This sort of carries over into an area (another thread, ha ha) that I often wonder about. When I hear someone comment that "so & so" is an amazing photographer... I'll start to think - what makes a photographer AMAZING? It involves many things - like vision, creativity, use of light, ability to direct and bring out emotions, personality, and among other things, how the final images look. It's really a daunting task. That's why many photographers chose not to shoot people. It's a sweet challenge though. It's good to see how close to amazing one can get, always comparing your compositions to those from amazing photographers. Keep at it @JonMcGuffin. It's good work.

JonMcGuffin

Forgetting about the technical aspect of the shoot, sometimes a personality conflict can develop that make the client feel that they didn't get good images even before they look at them. They need to fully trust you and believe you are the best photographer for them. They need to really like you. If you come across as bossy or controlling in their minds or they feel you talk down to them when posing can lead to future conflict and issues. Keeping the shoot light, fun and exciting helps.

Just a thought.

framer

This is a good point. In this specific case I think the rapport was actually quite good. We had a very nice time, the couple was very very happy when looking at the LCD screen images, and it was generally fun. I think I was a slight bit of a bumbling fool when it comes to equipment and also that I rush just a tad, but in truth I'm getting much better at both of those things and I don't think they really got in the way of the flow of the shoot. I do agree though for sure that if the feel of the shoot is not good, it can (and often will) effect the perceived quality of the pictures.

Vipmediastar_JZ

Great feedback and this is why I like this site.

I would probably ask them not to touch the faces/heads in some of the poses.
Thoughts on that?

JonMcGuffin

@Vipmediastar_JZ - You know, I struggle with things like this. Not because I can't ask them to not touch their faces but people seem to enjoy/love the pictures the most where they are looking their most natural. I mean, the million dollar question is, are we capturing the true sense of the people or are we staging them in a very unfamiliar and uncomfortable positions in an attempt to generate an image that is "scientifically" most pleasing to the viewer at the end?

I'm just not sure where the line is drawn here. In most cases, I feel like I don't want to tell the client "Put your hand here, cup your fingers, take your arm and angle it here, turn it to the left, move your head just a little bit forward". You do these things and your subject feels like a manican and they start thinking in their head "Oh my gosh, am I following directions and doing this right?" They're scared, they're tense, and that almost certainly delivers pictures either you or (more importantly) they are going to like.

I do get what you're saying though, position and gestures can make a big difference. I think where I've generally tried to go with this is to put the couple in a good position for good work and then let them be who they are, fire off a zillion frames and wait for the frame to show up that works. Yes, the hit rate may be low and all my photographer buddies may say "you're not any good, you're just a spray-n-pray guy" but - in the end - if I fire off 500 pics in a shoot and end up with only 10 VERY good images, who cares?

It's a constant battle between "pose them right, light them right, get everything right" versus "let the mood and tone be natural, let their personalities and character come through". Those two don't yet often together very well. Obviously, it's mastering this kind of thing that I think (truly) separates the good from the 'ok' - not if I'm using a D90, D700 or a shiny new D810

Why we don't spend more time talking about this as opposed to arguing about Canon/Nikon or Crop/Full Frame I have *no* idea.....

Jon

Vipmediastar_JZ

I feel you 100% as I tell them them the same thing to be themselves.
I have however told them not to touch the face because depending on the light it creates shadows or hides part of their face.
On one shoot a friend of the couple told the guy show your face by not touching hers. I was about to say that when she said it herself and then I continued to take the photos.

PB_PM

You know, I struggle with things like this. Not because I can't ask them to not touch their faces but people seem to enjoy/love the pictures the most where they are looking their most natural. I mean, the million dollar question is, are we capturing the true sense of the people or are we staging them in a very unfamiliar and uncomfortable positions in an attempt to generate an image that is "scientifically" most pleasing to the viewer at the end?

I'm just not sure where the line is drawn here. In most cases, I feel like I don't want to tell the client "Put your hand here, cup your fingers, take your arm and angle it here, turn it to the left, move your head just a little bit forward". You do these things and your subject feels like a manican and they start thinking in their head "Oh my gosh, am I following directions and doing this right?" They're scared, they're tense, and that almost certainly delivers pictures either you or (more importantly) they are going to like.

I recently watched some portrait photographers talk about this very subject. They said it can take at least 45 minutes for a model, or any subject for that matter, to warm up to being shot and posed. At first they tense up, but then as they work with you over a longer period of time they relax. In your case I know you didn't have that kind of time, so you might need to take other steps to making your clients feel comfortable, even if you do have to pose them.

SquamishPhoto

Try looking up poses on google, screen shot them with your phone and show the subjects the pics and have them do their best to approximate the pose. Usually works rather well for me, even if just as a starting point to work from.

Rx4Photo

Interesting direction that we're going now, and very very important. I tend to think that many of the photos that we see on the extremely professional wedding photographer's sites are either posed, shot during sessions that might not be on the actual wedding day, or shot when there has been enough time for the couple to warm up to being photographed (which is usually not on the wedding day).

I think composition and pose are so important that I think it is what often influences the client's opinion of the final photo. I'm no expert but by experience I'll agree that most people don't know what to do with their hands when they're photographed alone. Couples can be a little easier because they just touch each other where they normally do when together.

As I look at web sites like those of Roberto Valenzuela I can see why people love his couples work, but I'm sure a lot of it is posed after the couple has gotten comfy.

Vipmediastar_JZ

I saw a few of his galleries and he does have some nice work. On the ones where the heads touch there is no shadow which is great and the face is not obscured.

If you tell your couple to be themselves make sure the the bridal party is aware of your style when its time for the bridal party pics.

Msmoto

Well, late to read the thread, my impressions were pretty much like PitchBlack's. My personal taste is to have all the skin tones the same, or very close, as our brain does this when we are viewing the scene live.

And, i think having a nice warm glow, especially in sunset scenes is quite desirable.

We all have our personal taste and my viewpoint is simply what i have found to my liking. Here is simply a snapshot of a couple of friends. The original had her extremely sunburned (Palm Desert, California) and in the final I retained some of that "flavor" yet brought the tonal range of both individuals together. Please remember this is simply a quick snap for friends, not a pro job in any way, but it shows the idea I like to keep in mind.



There was no fill flash here, but in your work i like the idea of using a softbox to open shadows.

JonMcGuffin

Well isn't this just a fun little picture and I think the quintessential example of a "great" picture but it's not a "great" picture if you catch my drift

Gareth

You did an OK job with the lighting. Sure you could have done better, but that is not what lets these photos down.

The main thing detracting from these photos is the composition. You have the couple on location, but they may as well be in a studio for all the interaction with the environment that is taking place. TBH they look as though the backgrounds are photoshopped in.

Am I guilty of this? You bet. But environmental/location portraits are all about the environment/location, or why bother with the effort of going?

I suggest you study up on composition and learn to see the environment as a frame for your subject and an enhancer to the story you are trying to tell. (click my sig for a few examples)

Rx4Photo

Here are 2 examples of my "posed" couples photos. The first is from an engagement shoot. I basically told him to sit with one leg extended and asked her to scoot as far back as possible. They both were just looking at me after that. So I then told them to look at each other with a little romance. I don't know if they would have done it naturally...probably...but making it happen got the sure shot for them.


This second one is of my nephew and his girlfriend. Once again I asked her to back up to him, asked him to wrap arms around her. So he's standing there with her in a bear hug and her arms are just flat. I asked her to raise both arms (demonstrating it) and also make them a bit uneven - placing one hand on his face. Also to her I asked her to not look at me directly - but from a slightly off center position. Once again they loved the photo.

In both cases I think directing them produced a photo that was worth the trouble. Gotta be careful how you talk to people when doing that. Some might think you're treating them like a child. Just make it light and fun.

JonMcGuffin

@Rx4Photo - Very cool pictures. I like the engagement couple and how you brought the environment into the frame much more so than what I had done with my couple and as Gareth had mentioned. I like the second one because it (just like MsMoto's photo) really shows the personalities of the people being shot. Thanks for sharing.

I think there is obviously some kind of balance there between setting up the shot and then allowing something natural to take place within the scope of that setup scenario. My guess is this is really the magic zone of getting quality images. I find the few clients that I've had, that they actually want some direction and some advice, but I think if it's too much it quickly can turn into a fear for the clients of "uh oh, am I good enough?" so that must be avoided.

I don't find myself a humorous person. Or at least I should say I'm not the used car salesman kind of guy so I don't feel I can really BS my way into making people laugh. What I can do though is have a very easy going and confident spirit and be somebody who genuinely appreciates the time I have with my subject and the honor it is to have an opportunity to photograph them (irregardless of if they're paying me or not). Capitalize on what you have I suppose....

Gareth

A useful thing maybe to compile a folder of high quality professional images you really like, then go through them and work out if there are any similarities you can bring to your own photography.

Pistnbroke

well I dont like the second of the Rx4 photos ..it says you are grabbing my tits and I like it ....The mans hand below the breasts would have been much better ..or crop to the faces

Rx4Photo

..it says you are grabbing my tits and I like it ....

Not really @Pistnbroke, his hands are very obviously on her shoulders. Also, this is one of those moments where posing the couple blended with them being themselves. They were having fun and being a bit silly. No, I wouldn't submit it to be printed in a wedding album but it was a capture of their spirit at the moment. Had I contrived it and had him move his arms lower I was likely sure to lose those smiles. That's the fine line that's been mentioned earlier by @JonMcGuffin.

JonMcGuffin

So, the first (and only) thing I saw was the expressions on the couples face and their happiness. The particular placement of their hands had no bearing for me. Secondarily, the background and b&w conversion of the image came up next. I just don't consider the hands an issue at all for me.