D810 Buffer question

deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
edited August 2014 in D6x0/D7x0/D8x0
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about my D810, I assume it has to do with my CF cards. I don't get the advertised buffer capacity of "47" at 12-bit, lossless compressed NEF, with these settings I only get "25", but at compressed I get "28". I'm using a Lexar Pro 800x, UDMA 7 CF card. I tried reformatting the card, switching settings, and even put in a slower no-name brand 600x CF card, and I get the same results. I'm assuming I will only get the larger buffer if I switch the SanDisk Extreme Pro cards, but I wanted to verify before driving myself crazy, because I missed a setting.

http://photographylife.com/nikon-d810-buffer-size

And switching to Raw-S, drops it to "12".
Post edited by deejaysoul on
D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
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Comments

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    Do you have distortion correction, vignetting reduction and ADL turned on? If so that will reduce buffer capacity.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    I forgot to add that, but I do keep all those features off. The only thing I have on auto is the White balance and the AF.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    Interesting. I would like to point out that the memory card used does not affect the buffer size, only how fast it will clear.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    He is probably counting how many pictures he can take before the buffer is filled. If the buffer clears more slowly because he is using a slower card, then that number will go down, even though buffer size is not effected.

    What is in the second SD card slot? Make sure that is empty then test again. For example, if it is writing to that card too, say you have it set as backup rather than overflow, the buffer only clears as fast as the slower card.
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    The second card is a Class 10 SDXC, which I have set to overflow and movies. Oddly enough, with the CF card I get the average of 1.3k, while the SD card shows 1.4K, both are 64GB. On my D800, I get 1.4K on both cards.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited August 2014
    Are you doing RAW only or RAW+Jpeg? Also what is your noise reduction setting? Anything other than ISO 100 may also reduce your buffer capacity. Page 489-491 in your manual.

    Also, the number of files that can be stored on a given card is just an estimate, as the actual file size will vary (also on page 491). Likely the block size of the CF card is different than the SD which will change the estimate slightly. The difference could be 1 shot. 1349 rounds to 1.3k and 1350 rounds to 1.4k
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    Ironheart, I only shoot in RAW on this camera, I never been a fan of RAW+jpeg, or any other settings, so I can maximize card space, camera performance and battery life. Its something I learned from shooting action sports, but then before I knew better I also shot in jpeg just for the speed not realizing how much of a disservice I was doing to my files looking at them years later. But to answer your question the NR is off.

    I'm sure you're right about the card estimations.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    edited August 2014
    anywhere between 200-3200iso, but lately I have been playing with 64iso in bright sun light conditions
    Post edited by deejaysoul on
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited August 2014
    All of those will reduce your buffer size. Just for grins set it to 100 and see what the buffer count says. Auto ISO for sure will affect this due to the non-integral ISO values selected (I.e. anything that isn't 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, etc...).
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    ISO effects buffer size? How? I would have never thought of that!
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    Indeed it does. Also check your file sizes, high ISO shots are larger than low ISO ones.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    To add I dont use auto iso, but I did test at different ISO ranges, the only time it changed was when it went HI then the buffer dropped to "16".
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    Is that actual shooting, or just what it shows on the top LCD? Always keep in mind that Nikon is very conservative with those estimates.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    Thats what it shows, but I will say based on the shoot I did last week, while shooting the buffer ran out after "28" shots while only shooting 3FPS. The shot was done with an 800x card. Once I hit zero, it crawled till it stop shooting while maybe doing about 1FPS till I let the buffer refresh itself.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • JonMcGuffinJonMcGuffin Posts: 312Member
    Indeed it does. Also check your file sizes, high ISO shots are larger than low ISO ones.
    But would it effect the buffer size to the extent of which his has which is significant. He's getting half of what he should be approximately getting and all else is setup correctly. My only guess would be that the Lexar card is just not fast enough and you may need the 1066x version.
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    That seems to be only thing I can think of, I wanted to see what other users are getting to compare. If this is the case, I guess I'll will need to buy another set of faster CF cards.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited August 2014
    That just doesn't make sense to me, the CF or SDHC card used in the D800 makes no difference in what the camera displays. The buffer is built into the camera, and has nothing to do with the speed of the card. All the speed of the card does is effect how fast the buffer clears.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • JonMcGuffinJonMcGuffin Posts: 312Member
    @PB_PM If this were true, there really wouldn't be a huge need to have fast cards. From what I understand, the CF card makes a huge difference because, in reality, the buffer is only so big and the camera is constantly writing images to disk at the same time it's taking data into the buffer. It's for this reason of the double duty work and limited space that the faster it gets data onto that card, the more it's able to keep up with new images coming in.

    There are websites out there which compare the speed of memory cards based on the how many frames from a certain camera they're able to get until they "max" out the buffer (that's when things slow down).

    I'm about 90% sure this is how it works, maybe somebody else can back me up here but like I said, I'm nearly certain this is the case and the speed of the card has a dramatic influence on the camera's ability to write images. Let's face it, D810 has to be about the most demanding camera possible on a CF card performance wise with it's big files and (now) relatively fast frame rate of 5fps. Wouldn't shock me if his cards just aren't up to snuff to be able to go as long as he wants.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited August 2014
    ...in reality, the buffer is only so big and the camera is constantly writing images to disk at the same time it's taking data into the buffer.
    Which is exactly what i just said. The size of the buffer has nothing to do with the memory card. Again, the speed of the memory card only affects the speed at which the buffer can clear.

    The OP asked why his buffer was not as big as advertised, not whether or not faster cards would make the buffer bigger. CF/SD cards do not make the buffer bigger, no matter what speed or size.
    I don't get the advertised buffer capacity of "47" at 12-bit, lossless compressed NEF, with these settings I only get "25", but at compressed I get "28".
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    A faster CF card will increase the number os shots required to fill the buffer. On my D800 with the largest files, 4fps and fastest cards, that is 16 or 17. However, the first two or three may have cleared the buffer, so there may only be 14 in the buffer at any single moment.

    However, something is not right. Keep investigating.
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 469Member
    edited August 2014
    Can it be that you think you are at " 12-bit, lossless compressed NEF " but actually you are not ( some menu items need saving/pressing "DONE" before exiting ) . 28 is what you get at 14 bit compressed, after all ...
    Post edited by Paperman on
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    edited August 2014
    Just for giggles, I put in an old 2GB SanDisk Ultra CF (15MB/s), it even showed "28". The crawl is a bit slower. If you're curious I get about estimated 43 shots with card, so I guess if I ever want the feeling of shooting film, I could drop this in for limited shots.

    So with this is what I'm getting with three different CF cards:
    Lexar 800X 64GB = 28
    Topram 600X 64GB = 28
    Sandisk Ultra 2GB = 28

    All of these are done at Raw L, Compressed, 12 bit, with no settings ON, shooting in MANUAL, single point focus, auto white balance.

    -------

    Paperman, the D-Lighting is off, but with it on its still "28"
    Post edited by deejaysoul on
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 469Member
    edited August 2014
    I erased the D-Lighting comment but you must have read it before I did . Please re-read ... I am almost sure your settings are at 14 bit compressed ...
    Post edited by Paperman on
  • deejaysouldeejaysoul Posts: 25Member
    Paperman, I'm 100% sure I'm in 12bit, because I go back to the menu it shows 12 bit, but always the photos remaining is 1.3k, if I switch to 14bit it drops to 1.1k.
    D800, D7000, Nikon 24-70mm 2.8f, Nikon 70-200mm2.8f, Nikon 16mm2.8f, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8f, Nikon 10.5mm 2.8f, Nikkor 55mm Micro 3.5f, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8f, Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-5.6f, Sigma 14mm 2.8f, Tokina 14-24mm 4f, Nikon SB600 & SB700
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