D810 Buffer question

SquamishPhoto

@WestEndBoy Sounds like your D800 has a problem too. In fact this seems to be a common problem. My D800 shows 16 frames with 14bit RAW lossless compressed. That's 1 off of the official 17 listed in the manual. In 12bit it still only shows 16 frames, even though Nikon states 21. My guess is that it isn't a real problem at all, just a software glitch in the firmware. I say that because I recall it being correct with previous firmware.

Mine shows 16 in both as well. Its worth noting that it jumps to 18 when you go to 1.3 crop and 21 when you go to DX, which is something that might lead more people to choose crop options in camera for certain shooting scenarios. Using 5:4 gives you the advertised 17.

IanG

This is all very new to me - I hadn't realized I even had a buffer, much less an SD card - and I as just wondering, in the mundane, everyday world, where people actually use their cameras to take p h o t o g r a p h s (these camera thingys do that too you know) does any of this really matter?

Seriously, if the fact that the indicated buffer content is not what it seems stops you taking photographs, it leads me to wonder if you would not be better off considering macramé? Or golf?

This said, thank you all for a very amusing read. :-)

Msmoto

Yes, there are some of us who have no idea what the camera does, but we simply use the features we seem to find useful and get along. This describes me well.

Although, when my techie friends advise me of various things that make it easier to capture an image, I am all ears. And, in many cases the ability to shoot an image I could not have gotten previously is greatly improved.

The idea about buffers…. I have never run to the capacity in either my D800E nor my D4, only on the old D200 and D90. Usually I shoot in bursts of five to ten frames, never taxing the camera capabilities.

haroldp

Nikon's answer is correct but incomplete.

Lossless compressed is the least predictable compression protocol since its degree of compression is entirely dependent on the incoming datastream (think zip which is the most commonly used lossless compression). It typically saves around 30%, but I have seen real variation here.

Whether card or buffer capacity, Nikon does not want to ever display more than you will actually get, so it takes an extremely pessimistic view of how effective compression will be in calculating capacity. I often take three frames and have the displayed capacity count go down by 2. I have seen 1 remaining, taken it and had another one still remaining. They must be accountants.

If you use an uncompressed format (don't ask for a good reason, I don't know of any), your estimates / capacity counts will be accurate.

Regards ... Harold

tervac

This is an old thread, but I would like to resurrect it. Did anyone solve the OP's buffer problem? I have the same situation. I have 30 shots to fill the buffer with "lossless compressed 12 bit raw" setting. I get 22 shots on 14 bit. Yes it was on iso 100 and all NR and other fancy stuff turned off. Do others get the buffer sizes stated in the manual? The D810 manual says 47, I get 30. Is it common to be that far off the manual numbers?

haroldp

@tervac

lossless compression by its nature is unpredictable. In data applications I have seen 10% compression and 80% compression.

In Nikon Raw, I have seen anything between 40% and 20% cut in size.

Nikon appears to assume almost no compression in their buffer estimates.

.... H

deejaysoul

Hey tervac, doesnt seem like the issue was resolved, I had a chance to speak with a Nikon DSLR Expert at Photoplus in NYC last weekend and even he didnt have an answer. He went through all RAW settings and got the same numbers with the camera they had in the booth. Even that guy thought it strange and thought it might have been a misprint.

tervac

Thanks for that deejaysoul. I sent the D810 into Nikon for repair after talking by phone to a Nikon repair tech. I just got the camera back with a note saying that the camera was within specs. Bummer. Then I tried to check the camera to see if something had been done anyway, but couldn't because the shutter would not take a photo. So I called Nikon. The tech gal lead me through resetting the camera and also camera bank A, removing and replacing the battery. Those things put the camera back to normal, but I still have the buffer issue. Apparently, the manual has exaggerated buffer sizes. I guess I should be glad that I get off the number of shots that I do since its a 36 mp sensor.

After having the shutter not work, I have forgotten the buffer and am just glad the shutter button works! :-)

deejaysoul

To add fuel to the fire, I found this video a week ago and even at Nikon workshop he mentions the higher buffer of "47". (at the 15 minute mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKLFWhTYqzI

otetsiona

Having the same issue here with my D810... here's my comparison to the advertised buffer levels:

NEF (RAW), Compressed, 12-bit: Advertised=58, Actual=28 (Only slightly higher than the D800/e Advertised Value of 25)
NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 12-bit: Advertised=47, Actual=25
NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 14-bit: Advertised=28, Actual=19

I've verified ISO settings, etc. to ensure everything is set right, but the buffer is WAY off... my best guess after reading the forum is that there must be some solid state storage inside the camera where the buffer data is being held (i.e. RAM, RAM-disk). These are probably specified at a certain gigabyte level but, as is the case with all such storage, there is fluctuation in the actual observed values. Or, there could be a glitch in the latest firmware update that is taking up too much of the storage space (assuming the buffer space is shared with the OS). Either way, I'm guessing Nikon has a specification on the RAM that goes in there but not on the resulting buffer size, leading them to indicate units are "Within Specification" even when the buffer amounts are way off. Does anyone know what the RAM spec is that is being used as the buffer and if it's shared space with other static info (such as settings, OS, etc)?

I must say... it's definitely frustrating to invest in something that costs as much as a used-car and then have something missing...

PaulP

I'm having the same exact issue with the D810 -

In Raw 14 Compress Lossless, only showing 19 - Even RAW + Basic Jpeg, same 19. Is anyone else out there getting more than 19 frames in this mode?

WestEndFoto

I'm having the same exact issue with the D810 -

In Raw 14 Compress Lossless, only showing 19 - Even RAW + Basic Jpeg, same 19. Is anyone else out there getting more than 19 frames in this mode?

How many shots do you get when starting with an empty buffer in continuous fast with a very fast card, you press the shutter until your shutter fills.

PaulP

It is exactly 19 shots then, the buffer goes to 0, and it goes about 1 frame a second.

I'm using a Lexar Pro 1000x 128GB card ... I ordered a CF card to see if that makes a difference or not.

Ironheart

There are things that can eat up buffer space, such as active-d lighting, lens corrections, etc... Have you checked all of these? I can dig out the relevant manual page if you are not familiar with what I'm saying.

PaulP

Okay I figured it out!!!!

I switched to the CF card ... I went from a Lexar 1000x SD to a Lexar 1066 CF ... HUGE difference

Results:
1) Holding the shutter down in Qc mode, the buffer empties quicker, and even though "19" appears, while you are in 5fps mode, it's still emptying into the CF (or SD) card. Also, once the buffer is full, the frame rate is still much higher with the CF than SD card ... almost 70% quicker. Here are the results

CF: 29 (RAW 14 bit lossless compressed)
CF: 26-27 (RAW 14 bit lossless compressed + jpeg basic)

SD: 20-23 (RAW 14 bit lossless compressed)
SD: 21-22 (RAW 14 bit lossless compress + Jpeg basic)

haroldp

The Lexar 1000x SD is a UHS II interface which D810 cannot use, and reverts back to it's UHS I performance. You ill see 2 rows of contacts on that card. It rips on a Fuji which can use UHS II.

The 95 mbs Sandisk is the fastest SD card for a D810 even though the Lexar 1000x SD is theoretically faster on a camera ith UHS II support.

The Lexar 1066x CF is currently the fastest card of any type on a D810.

... H

FreezeAction

This thread intrigued me enough to try something with my d810 as burst rate is important sometimes without all 36mp's. I set all I could off with RAW at 12bit @DX Crop. With a clean 45mb read sandisk card I got 48 in a burst with a slight lag in #49. I can live with that. I was going to buy a D7200 but see no reason now. Those 48 were at iso100 in strong sunlight. What I need for the project is a D4s but there is no ROI.

Parke1953

FreezeAction whats a ROI ?

Ironheart

Return On Investment
He's saying that the D4 will cost more than he will make off of this project.

Parke1953

Thanks Ironheart. Maybe FreezeAction could rent one.

FreezeAction

@Parke1953 renting is not a choice for a few weeks a year. The event has to be rebuilt before I will trust all new people to use the service. The D810 will work fine with the 70-200 f4

manhattanboy

@Parke1953 renting is not a choice for a few weeks a year. The event has to be rebuilt before I will trust all new people to use the service. The D810 will work fine with the 70-200 f4

The limitation on that set up sadly will be the 70-200 f4. Its sharp (I use that combo and its a great lens), but the lens is just a hair slow in focus compared to the longer primes during action sequences. Although I can't stand the weight and size, a "pro" 2.8 zoom might be better.

FreezeAction

I had the 2.8 70-200 and sold it for the lighter f4. Simply the weight now. No spring chicken anymore. If the new Nikon f4 will focus as fast as the old Canon 2.8 did 11 years ago no problem.